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Old 02-10-2008, 07:19 PM   #57
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thanks jim for the info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
I know the Safari windows only open at the bottom, what are the emergency exit provisions for those windows?
as jim and jcanavera (in another thread 2-3 years ago) have posted on REAR BED units the window is just like the classic/ccds...

a full opening, single pane window with 2 RED latches and a pull out screen.

my question relates to front bed/ rear door models with hehr windows...

because putting an escape window over the lp tanks wouldn't seem wise...

so do they have one side window that is full opening near the forward bed?

this issue would be on the plain jane safaris that have a front bed/ rear door, and a side window escape plan...

perhaps they aren't producing any like this that don't have the window upgrades?

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:52 PM   #58
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Now I'm confused (perhaps more confused). Hehr? What is that? Large window with the smaller oval one below? Some sort of strange laugh (haha) while clearing your throat (arrrgh, hack)?

I think the large escape window at the foot end of the 25' FB Safari SE was standard when I got my 2008 because I don't recall a charge for it.

We did make sure we could open it and sprayed silicone on the seals. We still haven't gotten the rear center panoramic open. I'm thinking of using a wide putty knife to loosen it, but it's not been urgent.

And, enough snow melted to look at the propane cover and how it rests on the wiring. Perhaps, and I need to look at it more closely, using a pipe clamp for 1/2" pipe over it would protect it without having to cut the propane cover. Not being a plumber, I am unsure if what I call a pipe clamp is truly called that, so to describe it, it's a piece of metal about 1/2 wide and a about 2" or less longer with a half round center and 2 screw holes on each side. This would provide a smooth barrier for the wire and distribute the weight better. I'm not sure there's somewhere to screw it too until there less snow.

Gene
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Hehr? What is that?...
these are hehr windows g'

picture in post #35 below, but the whole thread is a good read

http://www.airforums.com/forums/329209-post35.html

and are used on the safari models that are NOT se, ss, upgraded units...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:20 PM   #60
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I just went outside to measure our "emergency window" in our 2008 27'FB International CDD.
The height of the bottom of the window is 35 inches, the width is 28.5 and the height is 26 inches. The window is on the street side. The window on the curb size is 44 inches from floor to the bottom. 28.5" wide and 19 inches high. The distance from the bed to the wall is 17 inches.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
I just went outside to measure...
good info millva' and thanks for measuring these things !

i'm assuming the places you measured relate to the guides mentioned in post #9 and #23 ?

does the window open easily?

the red knobs are supposed to require 20lbs or less of force to open/turn ...

that's my recall from reading the 05 version of the nfpa standards.

but NO ONE should rely on my reading/interpretation of the nfpa standards,

the nfpa material covers a lot of issues and isn't overly technical, i'll be making reference to other issues...

as this thread moves forward.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:10 PM   #62
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So far the things discussed could be applied to all RV's.

Emergency escape windows were not fantastic in any RV I've looked at.

Subpar wiring and wiring design are common also.

Niether of these shortcomings should ever leave the factory.

I'm still waiting to see what it is about the FB's themselves that is unsafe.
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:32 PM   #63
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Hits close to home

This thread really hits close to home. The photo you see is what is left of my 2007 Keystone Laredo 26RK. Fortunately (and unfortunately) only my dog perished in the fire. The rest of us were out deer hunting at the time of the fire.

The alarm was sounded at 7:35 and the fire department arrived at 8:15 to pretty much extinguish the resulting forest fire. The trailer was completely gone when they arrived. It burned so hard that the fiberglass, windows, and aluminum framing melted.

This model was a front bedroom floorplan with an escape window above the couch and next to the bed. When I bought the trailer I loved the layout. Then one day I was looking around and realized that the furnace, water heater, fridge and stove were all in the rear of the trailer by the door. Not a good idea in my opinion.

The cause of the fire is under investigation by Herndon & Associates. I'll provide an update when I get the report. After a lot of my own research I feel the cause was 1)Arson, 2)Fridge, or 3)Battery short, but we'll see.
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:46 PM   #64
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Tin,

The propane tanks and connections look intact, though the paint is burned off one of them. Were they turned off?

Sorry about your dog. Not a good way to go.

Gene

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Old 02-12-2008, 01:06 PM   #65
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Both tanks were open. The fire chief says that the propane probably burned off when the hoses melted off, but I've read that there are safety rings that shut off the gas flow when it starts venting too fast.

The tanks were covered with a plastic tank cover so the black may be the burnt plastic.

I'm really looking forward to getting the investigation report. It's hard to jump back into camping when you don't know how to prevent the same thing from happening again.
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Old 02-12-2008, 01:11 PM   #66
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Better picture of tanks

Here's a better picture of the tanks. Also of note: there's about 6 inches of jack post that doesn't look scorched. Perhaps a jack short?
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinLoaf
This thread really hits close to home. The photo you see is what is left of my 2007 Keystone Laredo 26RK...
hi tinloaf and thanks for addiing to this thread...

i recall reading your account and seeing the vivid photos of this event here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f368...ent-38772.html

and the terrible feeling it rendered inside...

i also remember thinking at the time, how insignificant my fire was

and about all the 'what ifs' that could have resulted in a greater inferno...

or losing the pooch and other loved ones.

i hope u WILL post the investigation results and especially ANYTHING that might help us make our a/s units safer....

i also hope u can get back into rv'ing when the time is right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
...applied to all RV's....in any RV I've looked at....Subpar...design are common also..I'm still waiting to see what... is unsafe.
i've tried to be careful in focusing on 'safety issues' as related to current a/s models, designs, construction and processes...

that's very different that using the term 'unsafe'.

also i fully realize there are safety issues with OTHER BRANDS or OLD UNITS, class a mohos, tents, and so on....

but hope we can keep the focus on recent models or current a/s offerings...

and suggestions on how to improve safety on these silver tubes going forward...

and not get into a "they're all this way" or "so what" or "get to the point" stringofuselessposts...

a/s claims to be a market leader, in a segment only they occupy and certainly at a price point no other trailer approaches.

so my intent is to remain on the issues as in post #1 and relevant strings from it.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:29 PM   #68
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2Air,

I asked the question because you had advised someone to hold off on a FB purchase. I was curious if that style was by itself was better avoided. Seems as though your concerns are more product wide than model specific.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:39 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
.... Seems as though your concerns are more product wide than model specific.
hi gc'

yes and no.

product wide is important to all of us, who own or are considering an a/s.

but i think there are model specific safety issues that are unique and troubling.

westie's photos show some of the 'after the fact/design' safety revisions...

and i tried to partially answer this distinction (and your question) in the first half of post #16,

and will address more issues related to in this specific floor plan/design subset as the thread grows...

while it may read inflammatory, i would avoid certain models/styles/floorplans IF buying now.

and at the absolute minimum, closely consider issues other than the inexpensive and hastily conceived interior makeovers...

or the seemingly hapless rearrangement of doors and windows and beds, that so much defines these 'new' models...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
good info millva' and thanks for measuring these things !

i'm assuming the places you measured relate to the guides mentioned in post #9 and #23 ?

does the window open easily?

the red knobs are supposed to require 20lbs or less of force to open/turn ...

that's my recall from reading the 05 version of the nfpa standards.

but NO ONE should rely on my reading/interpretation of the nfpa standards,

the nfpa material covers a lot of issues and isn't overly technical, i'll be making reference to other issues...

as this thread moves forward.

cheers
2air'
The window opens easily....it's similar to the rest of the windows...two handles that stay open with the notch on the frame.
The knobs turn very easy...almost too easy...very loose.
I have a question regarding the screen.....looks like you release the screen by pulling the cord at the bottom of the window. I want to run a fire drill with the family this weekend when we're out camping. How do you replace the screen after you remove the cord? Do you simply try to push it back into the groove? Seems like this would be very difficult. Or would you just remove the screen completely so it's one less thing you have to worry about when in an actual "emergency"?
Dennis
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