2012 Airstreams

[ROBERT CROSS]

Collimare,

Quite a first post....

I realize it's no comfort now, but a lot of folks have been there.

Our list was comparably long, although with some differing concerns.

The passage of time demeans anger...

Advise...call and write to the customer service people at the Factory.

Bob

[Rich of SCal]

Wow, Collimare, that is quite a list alright. Makes me feel better about my purchase. Of course a Sport 16, while still pricey compared to comparable models in other brands, is much less an investment than you have. I just called to schedule warranty service for my refrigerator, which works off and on when it feels like it...and the tank monitor, which does not even recognize the gray/black tank. Monitor issues seem common. Makes you wonder why they use that particular model (because it's cheap?).

I agree about that socket under the table. It does feel like it is just surface mounted to the aluminum skin. Not quality work at all. Also, in my shower/toilet area, they used cheap velcro dots to hold the shower curtain in place. The don't separate properly and soon do nothing to hold the curtain in place.

I also found a loose rivet in the bath ceiling that falls out if you touch it.

But other than those few complaints, everything else has worked well. My bed is actually pretty comfortable after I bought custom fit sheets and a custom mattress cover for it.

I agree the heater and a/c are noisy...especially in a 16 footer. But they do seem to work well.

Sadly, the quality of American craftsmanship is not always what it should be. Too many cost-cutting corners. Nevertheless, I still love my AS over anything else I have seen out there, that I could possibly afford to buy.

I hope you find a good warranty service. Don't limit yourself to only AS dealers. The one I am going to is not a dealer, but they have done AS warranty work for decades. Others have praised their work. I will find out for myself in a few weeks.

Good luck with yours.

[Gene]

Collimare, I assume you bought it locally. We bought there although we live on the western slope. We had many issues for a long time and the dealer often told us the same things—"not covered". Airstream has been cost cutting for a long time and you see some of the results. Sorry to hear of your problems, but if it makes you feel better, you are not alone.

I wrote the president of Thor Industries and that got some of the problems fixed on warranty. But we were very unhappy with that dealer and after they damaged the trailer, we never went back. We brought it to the factory for warranty work and we were treated much better. Things got fixed right for the most part in JC.

It has seemed that QC at the factory has been improving since we bought ours, but maybe not from your experience. But, the dealer is supposed to do a final check and I believe Airstream pays them to do this to make sure things work. I do not think they did much of a check on ours or yours.

Storage is never as good in Airstreams as in MH's and 5th wheels. The beds suck; a medium firm foam topper made the bed good. Everyone seems to find screws, shavings and trash hidden away. Cleaning standards at the factory are poor. You are being lied to about the rock guards. The window covers in the front should only be cleaned with a plastic cleaner or they can be scratched easily. Water pump placement is a very long term problem. Rubber washers under it help a bit; we ignore it. Don't you have a storage door next to the water heater? That's where access to the bypass is on ours.

There is a dealer in Colorado Springs. I don't know about them except that a women who was from there told me she had no problems there. We looked at Airstreams there, but after the salesman stopped lying to us about how much trailer the truck we had at the time could tow, he went to answer the phone and never came back; neither did we. That's how we ended up in Denver.

Gene

[dkottum]

Most of your list is poor (or no) dealership predelivery responsibilities. Much of the rest is your own responsibility before you buy (mattress firmness, loudness of A/C, water pump, furnace, and such).

Your trailer is a better product than that, ours came virtually perfect and remains so after living in it almost 5 months. Our 2007 Airstream was nearly as good.

Sort out the details with your dealer, replace the noisy parts and mattresses with R-Vision parts, and see if it isn't better for you.

doug k

[BAB]

Collimare's email is very discouraging. Since I have a 2012, I've experienced a couple of the same issues (like the Velcro in the dinette being too aggressive on the Ultra Leather -- dealer fixed this before I took delivery). Haven't experienced the more heinous events he's dealt with. My water pump is readily accessible by simply detaching a panel below my fridge...and the interior access for the hot water heater is, indeed, through a hole cut into the plywood. I didn't see this as much of a "problem" though. Hadn't thought of olive oil on the window seals. As many new owners discovered, the windows are tightly sealed on delivery -- but a quick slide with a credit card fixed that, and once I'd done the silicone spray they open very easily. From other posts on this thread, I am now glad I ordered my trailer -- because when it arrived at the dealer it hadn't been exposed to the great masses at some show, or in the dealer's parking lot. It sat there for two days before I took it home and subjected it to my own very personal (and critical) eye. I found virtually NO punch list items. I agree on the mattress -- pretty chintzy (like lots of other folks, I put a Tempur Pedic topper on it. AND, I also think that painting pewter on my Barker High Power 3000 tongue jack (which is black underneath)....with black cable ties that immediately disgorged their pewter paint was silly. Would I have preferred a more professional install? Yes. Does it detract from the overall quality of the build or reduce my enjoyment? Not really. I hope that once Collimare runs through his punch list he and his family will enjoy their Airstream.

[MntManx]

I took delivery of a 2012 Classic Limited 30' about two weeks ago. Found a few items on our walk through. I'm sure will add to my list as the using starts with better weather. Agree the heater is loud and not balanced well as the front is warm and the bedroom is much cooler. Going from backpacking tent to AS it feels like heaven. My disapointment is with the Dealer not informing of the options available at order time. I will be adding the solar package and inverter for sure. It still far more comfort than a two man tent.

[ROBERT CROSS]

......or even a one man one women tent.

mntman...sorry couldn't resist.

Bob

[Gene]

'Manx, we had a solar panel installed by the dealer closest to you. We knew nothing about these things at the time. The panel died after 3 years, the company was out of business and the warranty was useless.

Lewster was here and said the panel was way out of date when it was made. So we were sold junk.

Search for the solar threads and you will learn a lot. There is one by eheffa giving step by step instructions how to do it. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f382...est-87469.html is a recent solar panel thread. There are many others too.

Gene

[Friday]

Airstreams aren't made by magic fairies from pixie dust... the shell is a unique use of aluminum (in the RV world) but the rest of it is all off-the-shelf parts or some jigged-up plywood under some fancy covering.

Honestly, the future of Airstream might be foreign assembly, where more money can be put into design and materials.

I'm on Airstream #2... my first (a Basecamp) had a similar laundry list of obvious factory screw ups... and it didn't even have a bathroom or shower. My 'new' 2006 I just bought had the linoleum split like the Grand Canyon after a cold snap.

It sucks, but part of owning any RV is dealing with the issues that come from a mobile 'home' being built from stuff that is designed for a stable, stationary house. If a person doesn't have the time or skill to tinker, owning an RV can be very frustrating. Or, sometimes you get years of trouble-free enjoyment...

I'd never buy a new Airstream unless I lived next door to a fantastic dealer... I had to tow my Basecamp 2500 miles to get it repaired, and they screwed it up even more.

[ROBERT CROSS]

"I'd never buy a new Airstream unless I lived next door to a fantastic dealer... I had to tow my Basecamp 2500 miles to get it repaired, and they screwed it up even more."...FRI.

Sorry, still have to parrot the same sentiment...my lesson learned, buy used and avoid the frustration.

It did appear for awhile after the "town hall" thread was shut down that things were improving on the QC front. Maybe yes on some items but judging by some of the recent posts I feel the folks at JC are still playing a cynical game of "whack-a-mole" with their customers. Just whack after rather than address before.
Admittedly some have gone to the "MS" Service Center and been treated very well with excellent results, we also felt that way when work was done on our 63. But wouldn't we all be happier if we could be "paloozafied" every year on our own terms, rather than have to make a QC trip on theirs.

Maybe an apprentice plan for employees instead of putting all "new" on the line with no one to say.."stop, lets do it right." Do any on the Service side rotate back to apply their expertise where it's really needed?

THAT'S ALL FOLKS!!!



Bob

[danlehosky]

We've got a 2012 FB Flying Cloud and the most irritating thing for me is the rear dinette. Poorly designed and awkward to change over. The table when lowered also sticks out several inches in front of the cushions and I have the marks on ym shins to prove it.

[mtntime]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

We've got a 2012 FB Flying Cloud and the most irritating thing for me is the rear dinette. Poorly designed and awkward to change over. The table when lowered also sticks out several inches in front of the cushions and I have the marks on ym shins to prove it.

I have been looking at this problem and wonder what the easiest method is to making it correct (hopefully by the factory)?
All of the dinettes that we have had and/or ever seen have a lip just under the leading edge of the seating surface/structure where the table drops down and lays flush. Then you just simply drop the back rest cushions in place.

The current Airstream design has the table resting on top of the seating support surfaces both sides (not flush) and on the far side the hinged storage doors come all the way to the top of the seating support surface. This eliminates having it rest on an installed under lip unless you cut the doors down. The other problem is that the bottom seat cushions come way too far out (about 3.5” each side) over the seating support edge forcing you to rip them all out completely to get the table down.

With the current limitations it seems one could design the bottom cushions to fit about an inch short of the edge to allow the table to drop straight down. You could then install a loop of Velcro at the very back of the cushion which would attach to the wall and allow the cushion to come out to the lip or just past it when the table is up and then push them back in when putting it down. Put a smaller piece(s) of Velcro under the front edge to hold it in place. The back rest cushions would then have to be a bit taller and perhaps thinner to fill in flush.

Any other thoughts to this ridiculous design? The first year out of school engineer who came up with this design obviously did not understand how it should have worked or prototyped it or worked with it after it was approved. It is just stupidly difficult to use. It also feels like the upper latch in brackets and the bottom arm pivot points are just attached to the inner skin. There is a lot of flex when trying to put it down and back up. I wonder how long it will hold up?

How far back does this design go??

I would like to hear from others about trying to get the factory to correct it, otherwise I guess I head to the upholstery shop as I am not living with it. Will the factory sell just the cloth or will I be forced to redo it all?

[mtntime]

Originally Posted by Rich of SCal

and the tank monitor, which does not even recognize the gray/black tank. Monitor issues seem common. Makes you wonder why they use that particular model (because it's cheap?).

Is there a higher quality "upgraded" tank sensors/monitors that will go into the existing design? Even if I have to pay for the higher quality parts it sounds like it will be better in the long run. I have never in twenty five years of trailering had any issues with tank monitor systems. I am dumb founded that this appears to be a common problem on delivery!!!!

If you have not taken delivery yet this should be one of the things you check before buying it. Make them slowly fill each tank and then drain while monitoring the system. Then make them fix it properly without cutting the bottom pan cover up to do it. Have it removed. WOW!

[Gene]

We've never used the rear dinette bed, but I did notice the table rests on top of the seat bases. I thought the cushions that go on the seat bases were thinner to make up for the difference in height, but I had no reason to check.

If you have the fabric we do, it is thin, cheap and sometimes moves around the foam interior because it is cut badly. There is no inner liner as there should be. The fabric gets dirty very easily and it difficult to clean. We have put sheepskins on the dinette seats—it looks a lot better and is more comfortable. For years I have been trying to convince my wife she can replace the fabric with something of more quality and use the OEM stuff as a liner. I may convince her in a few more years. Whether Airstream would sell you the fabric I don't know, but you'd have to order through a dealer. If you want quality, buy something better locally; having it done over by a professional is quite expensive.

I have always been surprised how badly the tank monitors work. I had them recalibrated at the dealer early and they worked for a while. They did not cut a hole in the belly pan because they probably did not clean the wire connections underneath. They are just telephone wire and get dirty and that is one reason they don't work. They seem to work off and on. After a while we have gotten pretty good at knowing what is in the tanks. And as for the black tank, open the toilet and look down with a flashlight (not a pretty sight).

I know you are frustrated. We were too. The Airstream was my wife's idea. She fell in love with it. After repeated problems with warranty items and the dealer, we decided to get things fixed at the factory service center. We turned two visits there into part of a trip around many states. The factory tour is interesting and the service center does far better work than a lot of dealers. On our first trip to JC, one or two things broke every day (better before we got there than after). My wife's Airstream love grew fainter and fainter and she was about ready to sell it.

We got things fixed and were treated right. We made our last trip to JC a few days before the warranty ran out. We have been upgrading many things over the past few years. Selling it would have been a financial disaster. We like our Airstream—distinctive styling, good towing, better gas mileage with this design.

Do I feel ripped off? Sometimes. It is was it is, however, and we continue to upgrade and enjoy our trailer. It has served us for 40,000+ miles over 4.5 years. It has been to the Brooks Range in Alaska and Key West and a lot of places in between.

In the first two years many, many problems had to be fixed. The fixes have decreased substantially since then, fortunately. Right now I have ripped our the cheap vinyl flooring and will replace with a much better quality flooring. By doing so I found a leak and will fix that too. Leaks are a constant issue and my understanding is that RV's are leak prone. I don't think this has to be—cars and trucks don't leak—but I fix what I can when I find problems. If you can do the work yourself, you will save a lot of money and know your trailer better.

I suggest you give it time and get things fixed under warranty. See how it goes and enjoy camping in it. Then decide what to do.

Gene

[mtntime]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

By doing so I found a leak and will fix that too. Leaks are a constant issue and my understanding is that RV's are leak prone. I don't think this has to be—cars and trucks don't leak—but I fix what I can when I find problems. If you can do the work yourself, you will save a lot of money and know your trailer better.

I suggest you give it time and get things fixed under warranty. See how it goes and enjoy camping in it. Then decide what to do.

Gene

I am not trying to bash the product, as we loved our 1979 Airstream, I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.

I never had a leak in either of our previous R-Vision trailers and we like you had them all over the united states and on a lot of rough Colorado high mountain back roads.

[xrvr]

R visions are so good, why buy an as? jim

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Collimare

I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.

Exactly. Selling a product as "premium" when it isn't leads to disappointment and anger. Word of mouth can hurt a manufacturer and there have been quite a few people posting on this Forum over the years that have decided to not buy a new Airstream when they read these type of posts. Some buy a different brand, some buy used hoping everything is fixed.

If we were going to do it again, I have no good idea what we would have done.

Gene

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Collimare

I am not trying to bash the product, as we loved our 1979 Airstream, I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.

These posts from 2009, needless to say I'm less pizzed to-day...

As you resolve the concerns the stress subsides...but keep in mind, NO absolution given, The quality control is STILL a major concern!!



Bob




02-08-2009, 05:19 PM #15
ROBERT CROSS
"CLOUDSPLITTER"

2003 25' Classic
??? , "Niagara Frontier"
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,830
Images: 53
Airstream Registry


Old before New..

We started our Airstream life with our 63 Safari in 1989. I was always amazed and bragged incessantly about the fact that you wouldn't see any other 26 year old SOB still on the road. This was well before any experience with other AS owners or very many sob's for that matter. We were tent campers, boon-dockers. The 63 was our first trailer of any kind.
It was a long, gradual learning curve. Every Spring I had to set aside the first Month to getting the old girl ready to use. All well and good for the first 10 years but the older we both got the more of a PITA it became.

Finally in 2003, on the way back from Sampson State Park we saw a lot-full of shiny tubes in Darien Center NY, they were closed, but we stopped to look anyway. That was the straw! Within three weeks our minds were made up, and two weeks later we had our new trailer. Six weeks later the dealership was closed, our first hint of what was ahead for us.
Not even sure I can recall all the problems without checking our trip diary. Suffice to say I spent more time working on warranty repairs that first season than I spent getting the old girl ready in the last two.
You can't convince me there is any QC at the Factory level, very little worker pride in what they are building, don't believe me, climb up on the roof of a newer unit and see how your vents are sealed. How hard can that be, just take your time and do it right. A/C shroud cracked at all mount holes. Water pump wiring failed first time out. Front stainless rock guards scratched around all the mounts, rear bumper cover cracked in three places, never should have left the factory, let the dealer fix it Take a look at your cabinet installation, see how many "air" screws you find. How many latches have you broken because of poor alignment/assembly? Radio speakers with two of the four screws holding air. Pantry falls out the first time it's loaded because of improper slide installation. Aluminum trailer with NO stainless fasteners. All exterior fasteners rusting within the first year. AND THE BEST PART, can you say CORROSION! Can't remember everything, the more I write the Pister I get
I love my Airstream, and luckily I shouldn't have to buy another, it's the Factory's attitude that sucks, and thats just not acceptable. WWWD?

Bob
__________________
LOST IN THE SIXTIES







" I'll know where I am when I get there"

Bob,Sandra & "Fado"
2006 3/4 Burb 8.1
Hensley





02-09-2009, 04:02 PM #37
ROBERT CROSS
"CLOUDSPLITTER"
2003 25' Classic
??? , "Niagara Frontier"
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,830
Images: 53
Airstream Registry

It can be done right!!
As some here know we started our Airstream experience with a 63 Safari.
Back in the mid 90's we needed a new fridge. We had a trip planed anyway and we really wanted to see where our old girl was made, the price was right, so we decided to have it done at the Mother-ship. It was a very satisfying experience. Spent most of the afternoon watching the whole operation. Now I can't say for sure, but I think the tech was a real "old timer", took pride in his work and spent valuable time explaining things to us. My guess is he probably started on the line and graduated to the refurb shop. When the trailer was delivered back to it's parking area it was cleaner and in better shape than when the repair started. Right down to the boomerang panel being re-fitted to the door of the new fridge.

One other thing to note, they were very busy at the time doing a huge amount of very expensive repairs. They called them "Bismark's". Hail damage panel repairs from a National Rally in N.D. No problem, we got the same treatment as the big buck's.

Wish it were so...
__________________
LOST IN THE SIXTIES







" I'll know where I am when I get there"

Bob,Sandra & "Fado"
2006 3/4 Burb 8.1
Hensley

[MntManx]

Hey, let me enjoy my new silver twinkie of only three weeks. Maybe mine was made on a Wednesday and the AS employees were on their game. Either way I have an engineering background (mechanical) which may help as things happen. I'd rather see things half full. I did find that it was a good thing not to purchase the factory solar system and if there is a next AS it will be used. I find this site of great value and thank everyone for their thoughts, wish I would have found this site before I placed my order.

Mike & Deb, Greeley, CO
30' Classic 2012
Tundra with the big V8
Tows the AS great even up the Mountains
we have in CO.

[danlehosky]

All, the only way to make the dinette table fit is to cut it down and relaminate the sides. Something I do not intend to do. We have blue taped off the table marking the usable surface after the cuts and it is to small. I think some room could have been added by cutting about 6" off of that ridiculously wide cushion on the curb side.

Gene, This purchase was also my wifes idea. Although I must admit I am learning to love it. Our Airstream started out being a 42 ft Ocean Alexander. We have always had boats and considered camping as something you did in tents. The Airstream (Named "The Weight") is quite an improvement and now I cam mooch boat time with brothers and friends. Really thats the best way to own a boat. Any bites on the house yet?
Dan