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Old 02-29-2012, 01:22 AM   #71
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We've got a 2012 FB Flying Cloud and the most irritating thing for me is the rear dinette. Poorly designed and awkward to change over. The table when lowered also sticks out several inches in front of the cushions and I have the marks on ym shins to prove it.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #72
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We've got a 2012 FB Flying Cloud and the most irritating thing for me is the rear dinette. Poorly designed and awkward to change over. The table when lowered also sticks out several inches in front of the cushions and I have the marks on ym shins to prove it.

I have been looking at this problem and wonder what the easiest method is to making it correct (hopefully by the factory)?
All of the dinettes that we have had and/or ever seen have a lip just under the leading edge of the seating surface/structure where the table drops down and lays flush. Then you just simply drop the back rest cushions in place.

The current Airstream design has the table resting on top of the seating support surfaces both sides (not flush) and on the far side the hinged storage doors come all the way to the top of the seating support surface. This eliminates having it rest on an installed under lip unless you cut the doors down. The other problem is that the bottom seat cushions come way too far out (about 3.5” each side) over the seating support edge forcing you to rip them all out completely to get the table down.

With the current limitations it seems one could design the bottom cushions to fit about an inch short of the edge to allow the table to drop straight down. You could then install a loop of Velcro at the very back of the cushion which would attach to the wall and allow the cushion to come out to the lip or just past it when the table is up and then push them back in when putting it down. Put a smaller piece(s) of Velcro under the front edge to hold it in place. The back rest cushions would then have to be a bit taller and perhaps thinner to fill in flush.

Any other thoughts to this ridiculous design? The first year out of school engineer who came up with this design obviously did not understand how it should have worked or prototyped it or worked with it after it was approved. It is just stupidly difficult to use. It also feels like the upper latch in brackets and the bottom arm pivot points are just attached to the inner skin. There is a lot of flex when trying to put it down and back up. I wonder how long it will hold up?

How far back does this design go??

I would like to hear from others about trying to get the factory to correct it, otherwise I guess I head to the upholstery shop as I am not living with it. Will the factory sell just the cloth or will I be forced to redo it all?
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #73
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and the tank monitor, which does not even recognize the gray/black tank. Monitor issues seem common. Makes you wonder why they use that particular model (because it's cheap?).
Is there a higher quality "upgraded" tank sensors/monitors that will go into the existing design? Even if I have to pay for the higher quality parts it sounds like it will be better in the long run. I have never in twenty five years of trailering had any issues with tank monitor systems. I am dumb founded that this appears to be a common problem on delivery!!!!

If you have not taken delivery yet this should be one of the things you check before buying it. Make them slowly fill each tank and then drain while monitoring the system. Then make them fix it properly without cutting the bottom pan cover up to do it. Have it removed. WOW!
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:33 AM   #74
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We've never used the rear dinette bed, but I did notice the table rests on top of the seat bases. I thought the cushions that go on the seat bases were thinner to make up for the difference in height, but I had no reason to check.

If you have the fabric we do, it is thin, cheap and sometimes moves around the foam interior because it is cut badly. There is no inner liner as there should be. The fabric gets dirty very easily and it difficult to clean. We have put sheepskins on the dinette seats—it looks a lot better and is more comfortable. For years I have been trying to convince my wife she can replace the fabric with something of more quality and use the OEM stuff as a liner. I may convince her in a few more years. Whether Airstream would sell you the fabric I don't know, but you'd have to order through a dealer. If you want quality, buy something better locally; having it done over by a professional is quite expensive.

I have always been surprised how badly the tank monitors work. I had them recalibrated at the dealer early and they worked for a while. They did not cut a hole in the belly pan because they probably did not clean the wire connections underneath. They are just telephone wire and get dirty and that is one reason they don't work. They seem to work off and on. After a while we have gotten pretty good at knowing what is in the tanks. And as for the black tank, open the toilet and look down with a flashlight (not a pretty sight).

I know you are frustrated. We were too. The Airstream was my wife's idea. She fell in love with it. After repeated problems with warranty items and the dealer, we decided to get things fixed at the factory service center. We turned two visits there into part of a trip around many states. The factory tour is interesting and the service center does far better work than a lot of dealers. On our first trip to JC, one or two things broke every day (better before we got there than after). My wife's Airstream love grew fainter and fainter and she was about ready to sell it.

We got things fixed and were treated right. We made our last trip to JC a few days before the warranty ran out. We have been upgrading many things over the past few years. Selling it would have been a financial disaster. We like our Airstream—distinctive styling, good towing, better gas mileage with this design.

Do I feel ripped off? Sometimes. It is was it is, however, and we continue to upgrade and enjoy our trailer. It has served us for 40,000+ miles over 4.5 years. It has been to the Brooks Range in Alaska and Key West and a lot of places in between.

In the first two years many, many problems had to be fixed. The fixes have decreased substantially since then, fortunately. Right now I have ripped our the cheap vinyl flooring and will replace with a much better quality flooring. By doing so I found a leak and will fix that too. Leaks are a constant issue and my understanding is that RV's are leak prone. I don't think this has to be—cars and trucks don't leak—but I fix what I can when I find problems. If you can do the work yourself, you will save a lot of money and know your trailer better.

I suggest you give it time and get things fixed under warranty. See how it goes and enjoy camping in it. Then decide what to do.

Gene
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:57 AM   #75
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By doing so I found a leak and will fix that too. Leaks are a constant issue and my understanding is that RV's are leak prone. I don't think this has to be—cars and trucks don't leak—but I fix what I can when I find problems. If you can do the work yourself, you will save a lot of money and know your trailer better.

I suggest you give it time and get things fixed under warranty. See how it goes and enjoy camping in it. Then decide what to do.

Gene
I am not trying to bash the product, as we loved our 1979 Airstream, I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.

I never had a leak in either of our previous R-Vision trailers and we like you had them all over the united states and on a lot of rough Colorado high mountain back roads.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:01 AM   #76
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R visions are so good, why buy an as? jim
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:03 AM   #77
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I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.
Exactly. Selling a product as "premium" when it isn't leads to disappointment and anger. Word of mouth can hurt a manufacturer and there have been quite a few people posting on this Forum over the years that have decided to not buy a new Airstream when they read these type of posts. Some buy a different brand, some buy used hoping everything is fixed.

If we were going to do it again, I have no good idea what we would have done.

Gene
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collimare View Post
I am not trying to bash the product, as we loved our 1979 Airstream, I am just so very disapointed in the "NEW" quality/design and it does not have to be this way!! It is an active decision made my the manufacture and will most likely not change till they run it into the ground.


These posts from 2009, needless to say I'm less pizzed to-day...

As you resolve the concerns the stress subsides...but keep in mind, NO absolution given, The quality control is STILL a major concern!!



Bob




02-08-2009, 05:19 PM #15
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Old before New..

We started our Airstream life with our 63 Safari in 1989. I was always amazed and bragged incessantly about the fact that you wouldn't see any other 26 year old SOB still on the road. This was well before any experience with other AS owners or very many sob's for that matter. We were tent campers, boon-dockers. The 63 was our first trailer of any kind.
It was a long, gradual learning curve. Every Spring I had to set aside the first Month to getting the old girl ready to use. All well and good for the first 10 years but the older we both got the more of a PITA it became.

Finally in 2003, on the way back from Sampson State Park we saw a lot-full of shiny tubes in Darien Center NY, they were closed, but we stopped to look anyway. That was the straw! Within three weeks our minds were made up, and two weeks later we had our new trailer. Six weeks later the dealership was closed, our first hint of what was ahead for us.
Not even sure I can recall all the problems without checking our trip diary. Suffice to say I spent more time working on warranty repairs that first season than I spent getting the old girl ready in the last two.
You can't convince me there is any QC at the Factory level, very little worker pride in what they are building, don't believe me, climb up on the roof of a newer unit and see how your vents are sealed. How hard can that be, just take your time and do it right. A/C shroud cracked at all mount holes. Water pump wiring failed first time out. Front stainless rock guards scratched around all the mounts, rear bumper cover cracked in three places, never should have left the factory, let the dealer fix it Take a look at your cabinet installation, see how many "air" screws you find. How many latches have you broken because of poor alignment/assembly? Radio speakers with two of the four screws holding air. Pantry falls out the first time it's loaded because of improper slide installation. Aluminum trailer with NO stainless fasteners. All exterior fasteners rusting within the first year. AND THE BEST PART, can you say CORROSION! Can't remember everything, the more I write the Pister I get
I love my Airstream, and luckily I shouldn't have to buy another, it's the Factory's attitude that sucks, and thats just not acceptable. WWWD?

Bob
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02-09-2009, 04:02 PM #37
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It can be done right!!
As some here know we started our Airstream experience with a 63 Safari.
Back in the mid 90's we needed a new fridge. We had a trip planed anyway and we really wanted to see where our old girl was made, the price was right, so we decided to have it done at the Mother-ship. It was a very satisfying experience. Spent most of the afternoon watching the whole operation. Now I can't say for sure, but I think the tech was a real "old timer", took pride in his work and spent valuable time explaining things to us. My guess is he probably started on the line and graduated to the refurb shop. When the trailer was delivered back to it's parking area it was cleaner and in better shape than when the repair started. Right down to the boomerang panel being re-fitted to the door of the new fridge.

One other thing to note, they were very busy at the time doing a huge amount of very expensive repairs. They called them "Bismark's". Hail damage panel repairs from a National Rally in N.D. No problem, we got the same treatment as the big buck's.

Wish it were so...
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:40 AM   #79
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Hey, let me enjoy my new silver twinkie of only three weeks. Maybe mine was made on a Wednesday and the AS employees were on their game. Either way I have an engineering background (mechanical) which may help as things happen. I'd rather see things half full. I did find that it was a good thing not to purchase the factory solar system and if there is a next AS it will be used. I find this site of great value and thank everyone for their thoughts, wish I would have found this site before I placed my order.

Mike & Deb, Greeley, CO
30' Classic 2012
Tundra with the big V8
Tows the AS great even up the Mountains
we have in CO.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:49 AM   #80
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All, the only way to make the dinette table fit is to cut it down and relaminate the sides. Something I do not intend to do. We have blue taped off the table marking the usable surface after the cuts and it is to small. I think some room could have been added by cutting about 6" off of that ridiculously wide cushion on the curb side.

Gene, This purchase was also my wifes idea. Although I must admit I am learning to love it. Our Airstream started out being a 42 ft Ocean Alexander. We have always had boats and considered camping as something you did in tents. The Airstream (Named "The Weight") is quite an improvement and now I cam mooch boat time with brothers and friends. Really thats the best way to own a boat. Any bites on the house yet?
Dan
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #81
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small seat, small table idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collimare View Post
Is there a higher quality "upgraded" tank sensors/monitors that will go into the existing design? Even if I have to pay for the higher quality parts it sounds like it will be better in the long run. I have never in twenty five years of trailering had any issues with tank monitor systems. I am dumb founded that this appears to be a common problem on delivery!!!!

If you have not taken delivery yet this should be one of the things you check before buying it. Make them slowly fill each tank and then drain while monitoring the system. Then make them fix it properly without cutting the bottom pan cover up to do it. Have it removed. WOW!
Not that I know of, but I'm still a newbie. I probably would not even bother with getting the monitor fixed, but I am going down for the refrigerator repair, so I might as well. It did seem to work when I bought it. But since using everything a couple weeks ago, the gray/black doesn't even register anymore. And I cleaned the tank until I got nothing but clear water out of it, so who knows. I understand it's just an estimate based on tank pressure anyway, so doubt I would ever rely on it. Since I have a gray/black tank all water goes to the same tank, which is 2 gallons larger than my fresh tank. So I don't hook to city water at all anymore. That way I know to dump when my fresh water runs out.

I'm glad I'm not alone in hating that table/bed design. I had the same type on an old sailboat I used to have, except it used the flush-on-the-lip-of-the-seat method. Worked flawlessly. I am thinking of removing the table top entirely to open up the seating. Maybe add a small seat across the gap toward the wall, making a u-shape seating area. Perhaps that could also function as half table using the hardware already there. Hmmmm. Then a second board could be adding when needing a second bed. I am getting some ideas just writing this. Maybe hinge the two together when used as a table-ett or extra seat?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:51 PM   #82
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R visions are so good, why buy an as? jim
You are exactly right!! We thought we were buying an "Airstream" just like the 1979 we enjoyed so much. As I recall the only thing we did to it was normal maintenance and everything was still original after 12 years of heavy use right up till the day we sold it. This is 100% my fault in not doing my due diligence, running the trailer through all of its paces in every possible detail, reading these forums ahead of time etc…... I was taken in by fond memories and desire! It’s not the first time.

Was I wrong in expecting a “quality product” based on prior experience and after paying over double what I had on the last two “lower class” trailers? NO!

It should have never bought, but I did, and will live with it just like a lot of others are doing. I promise you it won’t happen again!

If I can just keep the salt out of the wound I am sure it will heal eventually.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:10 PM   #83
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Please sell it so the rest of us can have some peace. jim
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:24 PM   #84
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Please sell it so the rest of us can have some peace. jim
You can have some peace by unsubscribing to this thread.

Gene
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