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**jcanavera** · 06-27-2003, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by airstreamcaravel
Im off to their site to see what help they maybe able to offer!

Dave

Just an FYI, that information may only be available to members.

Jack

Silvertwinkie · 06-27-2003, 11:24 AM

It all in the neighbors I suppose. My parents in the same town caught hell for the trailer. Me, my neighbors are pretty cool and we all get along. So far I have been fortunate and not had any issues with the village, but I fear that one day........

Eric

dtbw · 06-27-2003, 11:51 AM

I like others live a pretty restrictive area with an active HOA. I really did sweat it for awhile as we had the Bambi in the drive for over a month doing the makeover. As our garage sits to the back, our little Bambi was almost hidden, but I was afraid someone would say something. Not a single word or threat. This spring I was visiting with our neighbor who is the president of our HOA (we have a strange arrangement in that we have an HOA that is a member of a larger HOA), anyway, she indicated that the larger HOA compliance monitor had contacted her while our Bambi was parked in the drive wanting to know if she knew anything about it (the compliance monitor drives around periodically looking for issues as well as noting outstanding home landscaping). There was not a compliant, she just noticed it sitting there on more than one driveby. Thank goodness we are good friends with our neighbors (have house keys, security codes, etc). When asked about our A/S, she simply replied that we were working on it and that we did have offsite parking for longer term parking (which was true). I think that common sense should have a impact on such issues and in our case, common sense did apparently prevail. There are times that I wish the A/S was closer (about 15miles away), but then it is at an enclosed, secure facility and the owners of the facility live on premise, so I do know it is safe (lots of diesel pushers and other A/S at same facility...the owners have spent a small fortune building the enclosures, lighting, etc, but when I do the math, they have a nice $100K+/yr income off the facility and other than electricity, pretty low overhead).

**Action** · 06-27-2003, 12:05 PM

Stan,

It really comes down to the written rules, usually called CC&R's Covenants Codes and Restrictions. If you pay a HOA fee there will be a seperate document that you need to read regarding parking* an RV at your home. If you do not pay a HOA fee and there is no HOA, then the restrictions fall back to the city. You can get that document directly from the city or in my case I get a preliminary title report from an escrow company. (I'm in the home loan business) Then read that document.

From there, it is a matter of what you can get away with, cause the rules are written. (Except in rural/county areas) Deviate from the rules and you are taking a shot that no one will object. So if the rules do not specify parking restrictions, (And you should know if they do or do not before you bring home your RV) your neighbors can not object.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

* The CC&R's can and do restrict other activities, such as flag placement, mining, raising of livestock, color of exterior of home and roof, retail business usage, and who knows what else.

sjptak · 06-27-2003, 04:36 PM

Normally, here on the river, we never had issues. Lots of people winter their boats in the front yard. Only a few RV's, and they've never come under attack before. There is no HOA, nor was there one when I bought. I've lived on the river since '79.

It is only becoming an issue now, and is going to be brought up in a town meeting. Fliers have been posted by the opposition claiming that the boats and trailers are eyesore. This has all been started by those who have moved here recently, demolished a small cottage, and built a luxury home in its place.

Unlike dtbw, there currently are no restrictions. It is what they are going to try to do. I know my neighbors, have keys to their homes, and they have mine. When I have a party, I always invite the neighbors even if it is a familiy function. They can come or not. It is the same when they have a party. Everyone in the nearby neighborhood is invited. It negates a lot of problems.

Only the new folk have a problem with the boats. I hope I made it clear enough to understand.

**Action** · 06-27-2003, 05:03 PM

Stan,

You have made yourself quite clear!

If you bought your home with no HOA then there are no restrictions for you. If restrictions come about after, then future buyers of your property would be restricted if an HOA is established. Not you.

However, unless you agree to changes or are compensated for changes .... no changes can be made. And if changes are forced upon you I would consult a real estate attorney. You would have an easy case to defend. You bought under one set of circumstances and now they have changed the rules for your home. We declared independence from a king on July 4th, you may have to do the same.

My defination of an HOA = another form of government with no experience. And I am having issues with the one that has experience, spending way too much of my $. Don't get me started on that one, I might pop a rivet.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

sjptak · 06-27-2003, 05:18 PM

"Don't get me started on that one, I may pop a rivet."

When I was young and not all that bright, I became a member of "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children". I thought I was doing the right thing. Now the GOVERNMENT tells me I have to wear a seat belt. I have to have a license to use my boat(some states). I have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle(some states). I swear, they are going to try to make me wear a helmet in the batchroom, since it is statistically the most dangerous room in the house and the majority of those injuries are head injuries.

I'll tell ya, don't get me started on that one, I may pop a rivet!

BTW, I gave up my independence on July 4th. That's my wedding anniversary!!!!!

zduke4x · 06-27-2003, 06:30 PM

Here in my corner of the world, generally someone with nothing else to do has to complain or the codes are not enforced.

I was notified to move out of my wide driveway and as I live on a corner lot in the flatlands, it wasn't so bad for me to comply rather than fight it. The code here is that boats , trailers, etc have to be behind the portion of the house closest to the the road.

My neighbor couldn't get his boat in his back yard by the side of his house, so as we talked I agreed that whatever it was he did wouldn't bother me. Now his boat is parked parallel to the front all the way across his yard, but because it is behind the edge of his ranch style house it is legal. So if you see a big boat blocking a house in a subdivision you are near my house, stop in for coffee!

These selective ordinances are a joke, but as another old long hair type now I only shake my balding head....jem

sjptak · 06-27-2003, 07:32 PM

zduke4x....

Its always been like that here. UNTIL all the newcomers come in. They are the ones that want to change things. They can afford the indoor, climate controlled, heated and airconditioned storage areas with the bright lites, security 24/7 and the 8' chain link fence with man barrier on top. My whole point is, that as of right now, there is no ordinance concerning where I park an RV, boat, or whatever. The new guys want to change all that.

I can't wait to see what happens on the 4th of July, when my wifes cousin comes to visit for the weekend with their 35' Winny MH! I told them I'll give them water and electricity for the weekend, no problem.

Sometimes I wish I went to Montana or the Dakotas. I could be a hermit, no problem, if it wasn't for my family. I'd miss Mom, brother and sister, 2 daughters, 2 sons, their spouses and 5 grandchildren. Guess we can't have our cake and eat it, too.

Pick · 06-27-2003, 09:02 PM

I agree, it's always the "new" folk in a neighborhood that cause all the problems.

When we built our farm market 10 years ago, the "new" neighbors complained to zoning about our dumpster. The zoning inspector informed them that there are no regulations in the township reguarding dumpster placement.

Living in a township, in Ohio is nice. We can do just about anything we want to, within reason, except no junk cars. Every motor vehicle has to have valid plates on it.

I can and do park my Airstream at home, across the street in front of the farm market, on the side of the farm market, next to my house, in front of my house, and nobody can say a damn thing about it, because they all do the same thing too.

sjptak · 06-28-2003, 05:08 AM

Its getting bad here in CT. People buy a house with I-95 in there backyard. They get the house at a good price because of that. Then they complain to the state about the noise and that I-95 is eyesore. If they can get a politician in their back pocket, up goes another "sound barrier".

Another group are those that bought land and homes by Oxford Airport. They are complaining about the noise and protest any attempts at expanding the Airport. The Airport was surrounded by property that was zoned industrial, but had yet to be developed. A few years back, it was undeveloped and very rural. Outsiders went in and bought and built big, beautiful and expensive homes. Now every time a factory wants to buy and build in the Industrial Park, guess what happens? Off they go camplaining about bringing the property value down.

Woodbridge and Ansonia share a common border. Ansonia has a gun club with pistol and rifle ranges. The Woodbridge side was rural and "they" came in and started to build these big, beautiful and expensive houses. For years, they have been trying to close the gun club that has been there since the 1930's. They complain about the noise bringing the property value down.

I told ya, don't get me started............

Pick · 06-29-2003, 03:21 PM

Here's a news article link I found on fark.com that relates to new folks moving into the neighborhood and ruining it for the ones who were their first.

Article about neighborhood newbie

sjptak · 06-29-2003, 03:50 PM

All that time I spent in school as a kid and the time I spent in the military (approximately 10 years, 3 months and 19 days) thinking that I live in a democracy where the majority rules has kind of soured this grey beard's thinking. It was all a waste of time. The majority looses, the vocal minority wins(or the ones who can afford the better lawyer). Democracy died a long time ago.....

airstreamcaravel · 06-29-2003, 05:26 PM

Spocks (Star Treks')undisputable logic about "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few ... or the one" don't apply when it comes to local zoning ordinances.

The Village idiots live on and make life difficult for some if not many of us.....

Like a pebble on a pond ... one complaint can affect MANY people.

Long live the Village idiots!! (In hell).

DMC

Phaedrus · 06-29-2003, 06:42 PM

At the price of A/S parts, hell I thought we all were millionares just to own one...

fabofabo · 09-17-2003, 06:40 PM

Good luck to you!

stellablu · 09-18-2003, 07:06 AM

DMC,

I am probably going to be in the same boat. Village Idiots abound in this area.

I actually went to Village hall to ask for a variance so I could keep the AS in the drive during the winter to finish up the rehab and they just said "Oh my, no one has ever asked for something like that. That will cause a problem."
I asked - "how will it cause a problem? I'm here to see about going to the town meeting to get a variance to rehab it?"
And they just kept stuttering along - "Oh, people will call...."
I gave up and will just wait them out.
The only neighbors who don't like us are across the street and they are crazy anyway.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to let them come to the door on Nov. 1 to tell me to move it - with my 92 Corolla!!! HA!!

Good luck to you.

stellablu

MaShep · 09-18-2003, 10:00 AM

Would potted shrubs work for a wall? Those could be moved around. I've seen this done. Its even more hassle, but perhaps it would suffice until things settle down? That rig is so polished; it will disappear in the foliage!

Pick · 09-18-2003, 12:09 PM

Stella, you should not have went to "The Authorities". Remember the old saying, "It is easier to ask forgiveness, than to seek permission".

swebster · 09-18-2003, 06:43 PM

I've been following this post for a while as we recently relocated our AS MH from our driveway to my office to comply with some of our neighbor's wishes. I’m curious to get opinions from others on the forum about our situation and what they might have done in our place.

We live in a nice older (1920’s) neighborhood within the city limits. There is no HOA but we do have a small neighborhood association, city councilmen, alderman, etc. all who live within the immediate area. Our city, like many, is broken up into smaller “cities” that are really big organized neighborhoods. Like most neighborhood associations, ours is primarily focused on organizing car washes, fairs and recycling pickups rather than actual politics, ordinances or enforcement. As such we fall under the cities ordinances and covenants.

Before we purchased our MH I checked the city ordinances and found a surprisingly open set of rules; RV’s were defined as vehicles or trailers longer than 21 feet. They could not be parked on a city street for more than 72 hours but as long as they were parked perpendicular to a city street in the driveway of private residence you were in compliance (many of the homes in our city do not have a driveway so my guess was that this addressed a city wide parking shortage). There were also some meeting minutes from last October in which the city was evaluating whether the rules should be changed so that the RV (or boat) should be parked behind the front “build line” of the structure itself and a with the possible addition of a privacy fence but this was only being considered at the time.

Just to go above and beyond the rules, we sent a letter to all of our immediate neighbors explaining that we were planning to purchase an AS MH and we would be storing it at the house while we restored it. We were sure to let them know that after the project was complete we planned to store it elsewhere. I took pictures of the MH over to my adjacent neighbors and talked about it with them. We even went so far as to build a new gate along the front “build line” of our house made from six foot high privacy fencing so that we exceeded the not only the current ordinances those under consideration as well. This did have the added benefit of shielding the MH from the street during long term repairs. After all, no one really wants to see AS parts spread out day after day when they get home from work – myself included. (You can see the fence and the street view of the AS in the attached picture) We didn’t receive any negative comments or concerns and three weeks later we took delivery of our 345 and brought her home. Our letter didn't really ask permission but rather asked folks to let us know their concerns. I wish they had.

A few weeks after getting the 345 home we began to notice no one was waving “hi” to us anymore. Some neighbors would walk right past us and not even look in our direction. My wife even joked that we must have a scarlet “RV” on our chests. I knew something was up but decided to see how things would go on their own, after all change is hard for most people.

After a couple of more weeks, one of our neighbors finally approached me about it. He turned out to be the “messenger” as some of our neighbors had stared to complain about the MH to him on a regular basis. I should point out that he is in his late-forties and the second youngest neighbor on our street behind us. We’re in our thirties and are definitely the “newbies” around here as most neighbors have been living in their houses longer than we’ve been alive. He very nicely asked if we would consider moving it as people seemed concerned about it..

After some long thought we decided to be good neighbors and found another home for the AS at my office, explaining that the MH would be back on a regular basis for repairs that needed to be done near my home workshop and for loading and unloading for camping trips. He seemed to understand and was genuinely and graciously relieved. I was right in the middle of some major repairs so it would be two more weeks before we could fire her up and move it to the new location.

Unfortunately this was not the end of the story. We found out later through a sympathetic neighbor that members of the neighborhood association and the councilmen had been invited to tour the street with some neighbors while we were at work one day. Allegedly, one or more neighbors were working to get us written up on a fire code violation as our MH blocked access to our back yard through the driveway. We also heard terms like “inappropriate” and “eyesore”, and “setting the wrong precedent for the area” about our AS. OK, it’s not the prettiest thing in the world (yet) and RVing isn’t for everyone (just 10% of the US pop) but comments like this border on personal judgment.

We decided to go ahead and move the MH anyway as we believe in setting a good example for our community and our children and honestly as business owners in the city completely believe in the whole good citizenship is good for business thing. But we’re left with lingering doubts about our neighbors. We feel we did everything possible to exceed anyone’s concerns and even invited criticism or at least dialog before purchasing the AS. Why then would our concerned neighbors feel the best course of action was to talk to everyone about their concerns except us? The entire thing has left us wondering what kind of people we live next to. And despite some of the experiences posted by other members in our experience it was the younger members of our community that seemed more accepting of the AS than the older set. A few have made it a point to mention how they didn’t mind the MH and were very disturbed by how things happened.

So for now we bring her home only load up for a trip or to work on her in the driveway and to be honest I don’t try too hard to conceal her anymore when she’s here. After all…the city says I have 72 hours.

Many of my friends said they would have fought it and I’m sure a few of you would have too, but I guess we’ve chosen to acquiesce in order to take the high road and put up with what is a minor inconvenience in order to be a “good neighbor”. Yes, I’m bothered by it, yes, I’m out the money for the gate, yes there are many neighbors with boats and pickups and canoes and stuff in their yard, yes I growl to myself when I see a few of my neighbors outside but more disturbing is that we’ve found ourselves living among people who didn’t extend the same courtesy to us as we did to them. I guess we expected more from our neighbors.

My apologies for making this such a long post. I tend to keep my posts related to ownership and maintenance rather than social issues but reading about the experiences of others got me going. Thank you for the outlet and I’m curious to read your opinions.