Vintage Trailer Insurance

[Lumatic]

The rest of the story:

A few months ago I contacted Holiday RV of Albuquerque because I wanted some minor work done on my furnace. The furnace is a fairly new NT30 not the original. I was informed this dealership has a policy they will not service any coach more than 15 years old.

Feel free to draw your own conclusion.

[adonh]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

I was told by Foremost in order to get an agreed value

Like others with older Airstreams with updated equipment and remodeling I wanted to upgrade my current insurance coverage on the 1976 A/S. So I spoke to my agent about an "agreed value" policy from my current carrier Kemper and a quote from Foremost and Progressive. Kemper would not offer a quote but Foremost and Progressive did. Both said that they would set the coverage amount based on documentation or appraisal of the trailer from an A/S dealer or my local RV service shop, Bob Jones RV in Houston. They have been servicing Airstreams for over 30 years.

Sounded good until I started going over the details with my agent. Although they would issue a policy with what appeared to be an "agreed amount", claims would be paid on a deprecated amount at the date of loss. If the trailer was totaled they would pay based on the deprecated value of the items on the trailer that I had sales receipts on, AC, tires, wheels, Hensley, etc, etc back to the date that they were purchased. Not at replacement value. Foremost told my agent that the trailer itself (the shell) had a value of only $1,200 based on their source for determining payment.

So the agreed value as I see it does not do anything for you. On a total loss you get pennies on the dollar.

Maybe someone has more specifics on how their insurance coverage is written for Vintage Airstreams to avoid this situation.

Thanks
Don Hardman
1976 31' Sovereign

[87MH]

Originally Posted by adonh

Like others with older Airstreams with updated equipment and remodeling I wanted to upgrade my current insurance coverage on the 1976 A/S. So I spoke to my agent about an "agreed value" policy from my current carrier Kemper and a quote from Foremost and Progressive. Kemper would not offer a quote but Foremost and Progressive did. Both said that they would set the coverage amount based on documentation or appraisal of the trailer from an A/S dealer or my local RV service shop, Bob Jones RV in Houston. They have been servicing Airstreams for over 30 years.

Sounded good until I started going over the details with my agent. Although they would issue a policy with what appeared to be an "agreed amount", claims would be paid on a deprecated amount at the date of loss. If the trailer was totaled they would pay based on the deprecated value of the items on the trailer that I had sales receipts on, AC, tires, wheels, Hensley, etc, etc back to the date that they were purchased. Not at replacement value. Foremost told my agent that the trailer itself (the shell) had a value of only $1,200 based on their source for determining payment.

So the agreed value as I see it does not do anything for you. On a total loss you get pennies on the dollar. Maybe someone has more specifics on how their insurance coverage is written for Vintage Airstreams to avoid this situation.

Interesting read....

Does anyone have an update to this post?

Looks as if Foremost or Progressive (maybe State Farm?) would be the way to go.

Has anyone actually had a claim (good, bad, or indifferent) on a Vintage Airstream?

Enquiring minds NEED to know.

[purman]

I have allstate, i just told them what I wanted it insured for, but that was just the purchase price... as i restore I will also keep receipts and take pics, and up the price....

[87MH]

Special thanks to fellow Texas Airstreamers (Adonh and Gstephens here on the Forums) for helping me to sort through the Insurance Maze.

I actually pruchased a Progressive policy through FCIS (FCIS Insurance, Your RV Advantage), a WBCCI affiliate.

State Farm, who has insured my autos since I was 16, and ALL of my houses since I owned houses, would not even return my phone calls - might be time for a major change.

When questioned Foremost did not appear to offer a real "agreed value policy".

A quality RV repair shop here in Houston suggested that the shop has experienced acceptable business dealings with all three of the above mentioned companies.

BTW, the annual premiums for three levels of insurance quoted were in the $400 to $600 range.

[FreshAir]

We have Allstate. Allstate has insured my homes and vehicles for over 25 years. The few claims that we have turned all have been handled to our satisfaction. 2 1/2 years ago we bought our Trade Wind and insured it with All/St at an agreed value of 5k. Well to no ones surprise we have more than doubled that value with upgrades and improvements. I plan on uping the value and have been compiling the sold prices on similar Airstreams to support my argument if need be. But first I am entering the begining of a claim for side panel replacement (Oops I scraped a steel post). Allstate has given me a claim number and I have selected the Airstream shop to do the repair. Rough verbal estimate is 3k to 4k. The shop is about to turn their estimate and thus we will hear soon the results. Wish us well. I will update you.
Neil.

[GStephens]

All this upgrading of insurance without an "agreed value" policy through various companies is well and good PROVIDED you don't suffer a catastrophic loss. Bragging about how cheap your premiums are is well and good PROVIDED you don't have a catastrophic loss.

Panel replacement from a hail storm can easily exceed $25,000 on one of our trailers. On a vintage trailer, we might feel we know what its value is, but I assure you the insurance company without an "agreed value" policy will discount the overall value of your trailer to a rediculously low value if you only "stated its value" regardless of how many documents you show them. 'Agreed Value" ande "Stated Value" policies are two entirely different products (policies). You loose big time when if you don't know the difference.

If you own a newer trailer, then these problems don't arise because the trailer's book value will exceed the cost of panel replacement, but on a vintage trailer you must get an "agreed value" contract. To have such a policy requires two things: 1) the trailer must be appraised, and 2) such a policy requires an insurance company that offers an "agreed value" policy. Ask all the questions of your various insurance companies and you will find that only one offers such a policy on older Airstreams at this time. At least that was the case several years ago when I researched this question. That company is PROGRESSIVE.

In an earlier post I told how I "thought" I was covered through Foremost. As I am trying to do with you, another forums member tried to tell me different and I argued just as many of you are now doing. That forums member stayed with me and eventually convinced me. Had he not I would have learned a very expensive lesson just like some of you may learn, The agent had even told me I'd be covered. I had talked to someone who answered the phone at headquarters and they also told me I was covered, but at the insistance of the forum member who was trying to help me, I phoned the company headquarters again and had a discussion with a supervisor. He eventually admitted that I wasn't covered through the Foremost "stated value" policy. He said my trailer would be depreciated, perhaps severely from the figure entered on my policy. My coverage and the value of my trailer would certainly be discounted in the event of a catastrophic loss and I would not be covered.

I contacted Progressive and I took out an "agreed value" policy. It required an appraisal. I contacted three different Airstream dealers before I found one who would give me an appraisal on my trailer, but I secured one eventually. It was appraised for $17,000. I accepted that value even though I thought it was worth more and obtained my policy through Progressive.

Several years later (two years ago) I did suffer a catastrophic loss to the tune of $24,000 damages to a 1982 trailer in a hail storm. It doesn't take a genius to know that most 1982 trailers are probably not worth more than $6,000 to $8,000 on eBay and there is no Blue Book value on a trailer that old. That is all I would have received had I not had the "agreed value" policy, but I had an "agreed value" policy with Progressive in the amount of $17,000 and they paid right off. Try that with any other type of policy, especially those of you who are insuring your trailer as an attachment to your auto policy or those paying $80 a year for your coverage. If you have a repair for more than a few thousand dollars, the insurance company will simply total your trailer. Then it will be too little, too late and a VERY expensive lesson learned.
GStephens

[kokopat]

Okay, we have been looking at vintage airstreams for several months and this insurance thing comes up. We find a 77 sovereign to look at for $7,000 already with the new axles-tires-wheels- refer. It needs cosmetics to the inside. So I picked up the phone and called Progressive. They quoted me $161/year for agreed value of $7K - $500 deduct and other goodies (deluxe package). So at least if it gets crushed by a tree I can go out and get another one in the same ball park.

1st post,
Pat
03 tundra limited access cab

[kokopat]

Update on Progressive... We found a 1968 Overlander in October. I signed in to Progressive website and got insured agreed upon value of $2,000. Today I got a letter saying they changed my settlement option to market value. They never told me I had to get it appraised or any of that. Once I get it restored I may do that.
Pat
03 tundra
68 overlander

[Gene]

I am thinking that getting coverage for your Airstream through your auto policy may actually be for a small trailer for towing an ATV, a load of lumber, etc. It could be a rider on the auto policy and thus probably be only be an extension of auto liability coverage. The agent may not understand the policy. Years ago insurance agents made a middle class living from commissions (my father-in-law was an agent; he retired around 1990 as things were starting to get bad), but commissions have been cut and cut some more and the quality of agents naturally suffers.

Insurance is regulated by the states and depending on the state, specific coverages may or may not be mandated or offered in all sorts of ways. Some states regulate premiums, others don't. Colorado, for example, has generally let the insurance companies do whatever they want. Coverages change all the time, often giving you less and less. Over the years there has been a change in the attitude of the insurance industry—they, generally, try not to pay claims figuring on wearing you out so you'll give up. Sometimes it costs more to fight you than they save, but they don't care.

Some companies have worse records than others. State Farm has been sued many times for not paying claims and I believe there have been some major class actions against them. We have Progressive and have only had one claim. It was handled professionally and promptly. It was not on our trailer. Because I want to stay married, I won't tell you who was at fault. There's no way real insurance on an expensive trailer is going to be less than $100. Most states have mandatory liability coverage and that is for a self propelled vehicle—maybe that's what the agent quoted 6 years ago meant. Of course, a trailer could become self propelled due to gravity and foolishness.

It's important to read the policy to know what is covered. Unfortunately, you never see the policy until after you pay the binder. The companies try to hold you to a contract which is often vaguely written that you never actually agreed to. Question the agent carefully. Check company websites, and, of course, lots of information is available on the Forum. GStephens post #27 is very helpful for example.

The consumer is pretty much on our own. Years ago agents were independent agents who represented us and guided us to the best policy (we hoped, but maybe the policy with the best commission for them) and if we had a claim, they guided us through that. In the 1980's the companies started tying the agents to them and tried to eliminate the independent agents. Those company dedicated agents work for the company, not us. If we have a claim, we are directed to someone in the company bureaucracy who doesn't know us and simply does what he or she is told to do. I used to have one agent for all insurance. Now I have 3, 2 independent—one for auto and trailer, one for homeowners, one for health insurance. We bought road service for the trailer from Good Sam, no agent necessary.

I have experience challenging the industry, so we almost always get what we are claiming, but not everyone wants to go to law school, get a law license, and then fight for full payment. It's just not cost effective. It's a much more confusing world now—we have 2 phone companies (cell and landline), an ISP, satellite TV, but I used to pay $8/month for a phone (that's when I made $70/week).

Gene

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by FreshAir

We have Allstate. Allstate has insured my homes and vehicles for over 25 years. The few claims that we have turned all have been handled to our satisfaction. 2 1/2 years ago we bought our Trade Wind and insured it with All/St at an agreed value of 5k. Well to no ones surprise we have more than doubled that value with upgrades and improvements. I plan on uping the value and have been compiling the sold prices on similar Airstreams to support my argument if need be. But first I am entering the begining of a claim for side panel replacement (Oops I scraped a steel post). Allstate has given me a claim number and I have selected the Airstream shop to do the repair. Rough verbal estimate is 3k to 4k. The shop is about to turn their estimate and thus we will hear soon the results. Wish us well. I will update you.
Neil.

UPDATE;
The Allstate 'adjuster' was here 3 days ago and inspected our damage. The repair estimate by our selected Airstream service shop is about $3200. The adjuster telephoned the shop for verification and told me he will approve the repairs at that price minus my deductible. Then he asked if I was satisfied with the entire claim process. I mentioned that I did have to make a couple of unnecessary followup calls to Allstate to 'keep the ball rolling'. He appologized and waived my deductible. So my only out of pocket expense will be the travel (2 1/2 hour drive). We can overnight at the repair facility. Kidda like a 3 night camping trip.
Neil

[CJ of Okla]

We insured ours last year and they told us we had to get it appraised for the full amount. When we are finished with our repairs I will get the AS appraised.

Originally Posted by kokopat

Update on Progressive... We found a 1968 Overlander in October. I signed in to Progressive website and got insured agreed upon value of $2,000. Today I got a letter saying they changed my settlement option to market value. They never told me I had to get it appraised or any of that. Once I get it restored I may do that.
Pat
03 tundra
68 overlander

[Distantdrummer]

Originally Posted by GStephens

All this upgrading of insurance without an "agreed value" policy through various companies is well and good PROVIDED you don't suffer a catastrophic loss. Bragging about how cheap your premiums are is well and good PROVIDED you don't have a catastrophic loss.

Panel replacement from a hail storm can easily exceed $25,000 on one of our trailers. On a vintage trailer, we might feel we know what its value is, but I assure you the insurance company without an "agreed value" policy will discount the overall value of your trailer to a rediculously low value if you only "stated its value" regardless of how many documents you show them. 'Agreed Value" ande "Stated Value" policies are two entirely different products (policies). You loose big time when if you don't know the difference.

If you own a newer trailer, then these problems don't arise because the trailer's book value will exceed the cost of panel replacement, but on a vintage trailer you must get an "agreed value" contract. To have such a policy requires two things: 1) the trailer must be appraised, and 2) such a policy requires an insurance company that offers an "agreed value" policy. Ask all the questions of your various insurance companies and you will find that only one offers such a policy on older Airstreams at this time. At least that was the case several years ago when I researched this question. That company is PROGRESSIVE.

In an earlier post I told how I "thought" I was covered through Foremost. As I am trying to do with you, another forums member tried to tell me different and I argued just as many of you are now doing. That forums member stayed with me and eventually convinced me. Had he not I would have learned a very expensive lesson just like some of you may learn, The agent had even told me I'd be covered. I had talked to someone who answered the phone at headquarters and they also told me I was covered, but at the insistance of the forum member who was trying to help me, I phoned the company headquarters again and had a discussion with a supervisor. He eventually admitted that I wasn't covered through the Foremost "stated value" policy. He said my trailer would be depreciated, perhaps severely from the figure entered on my policy. My coverage and the value of my trailer would certainly be discounted in the event of a catastrophic loss and I would not be covered.

I contacted Progressive and I took out an "agreed value" policy. It required an appraisal. I contacted three different Airstream dealers before I found one who would give me an appraisal on my trailer, but I secured one eventually. It was appraised for $17,000. I accepted that value even though I thought it was worth more and obtained my policy through Progressive.

Several years later (two years ago) I did suffer a catastrophic loss to the tune of $24,000 damages to a 1982 trailer in a hail storm. It doesn't take a genius to know that most 1982 trailers are probably not worth more than $6,000 to $8,000 on eBay and there is no Blue Book value on a trailer that old. That is all I would have received had I not had the "agreed value" policy, but I had an "agreed value" policy with Progressive in the amount of $17,000 and they paid right off. Try that with any other type of policy, especially those of you who are insuring your trailer as an attachment to your auto policy or those paying $80 a year for your coverage. If you have a repair for more than a few thousand dollars, the insurance company will simply total your trailer. Then it will be too little, too late and a VERY expensive lesson learned.
GStephens

Well Gayland you have me convinced. But why in the world don't you give us an idea of what a 17,000 Agreed policy costs yearly.
How much was the deductable?
Did you switch all your coverage (auto & homeowner etc) to the Progressive?
Have you stayed with them?
What did you do with the damaged trailer? If fixed, do you now have a salvage title or regular title?

thanks
dd

[Gene]

Progressive does not insure homes.

Gene

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by Distantdrummer

Well Gayland you have me convinced. But why in the world don't you give us an idea of what a 17,000 Agreed policy costs yearly.
How much was the deductable?

I know this thread is old but thought I'd share my quote just now on Progressive website. NOTE: it seems like you might have to go through an agent to get an agreed value policy as they only allowed me to choose ACTUAL CASH VALUE on the website for my 1977 trailer. They do say that AGREED value is only available through certain sources -- very vague, but sounds like you need an agent, or perhaps a certain type of agent.

Anyway, I put in a bunch of values to get some ideas, and the rates came out to $500 to $800 a year for values of like $15k to $20k and modest deductibles. NOTE: this was for "full timer" insurance so there is a good chunk of extra coverage in these quotes that casual/recreational trailer owners will not need.

I'd be furious if I put in a value of $25k and paid those premiums and then found out through a claim about the "actual cash value" basis.

By putting in a low trailer value (which might be a "realistic" value under their "actual cash value" model) they do have rates as low as $350/yr. I'm wondering if it might be good to get a basic policy like this for the liability aspects and to offset a small amount of a total loss -- and maybe this would also cover a moderate incident with a couple grand of repair costs. Having this type of policy in conjunction with regular coverage for my tow vehicle would make me feel 100% confident that they are acknowledging my full-timer status. (I feel like my current tow vehicle policy, even though I bought it through an RV agent, isn't as clear on this.)

It's unfortunate that our love of these darn trailers is so difficult when it comes to insurance! I'm going to have to get my records in better shape and try to work toward getting an appraisal and an agreed value policy. I shudder to think about what it would take to document a loss with so many individual upgrades, not to mention personal items inside the trailer.

[CA_Tallguy]

FYI - I called RV Advantage/Farm & City/FCIS insurance (an agent for Progressive and others) for a more detailed Progressive quote and to find out about "agreed value" compared to the cash value basis. They quoted me $539 for a actual cash value policy stating the trailer was worth $15k. Sadly, the rate went UP to $828 on an "agreed value" basis with the same $15k stated value (for which they said they would need an appraisal within 30 days of policy issuance -- and they have approved appraisers that you need to call).

For a cash value policy stating the trailer value as $7500, the rate came down to $419. This is about the max I think they would pay out on a cash value policy anyway, so insuring for cash value above this is useless.

Note that all these amounts are for "full timer" insurance and include a discount for having my tow vehicle on a policy with them as well.

It's frustrating that these companies are more than happy to charge you premiums to insure higher values that there is no chance of them every paying out on. The way I see it, if they take your money to insure a higher value, they should be required to pay out on it! I guess that is why they charge so much more for the agreed value policy. But still, it seems like a racket to let people unwittingly buy too much insurance on the cash value basis.

[CA_Tallguy]

One more note -- in another thread, a member dealing with a Progressive claims adjuster after an incident with a tree said the adjuster initially came back to them with an offer of $1100 to total the trailer. The member said that they felt this was what Progressive would have said on any 1977 trailer (such as mine). In the end, after some negotiations, this member said that Progressive went with some comparative values, looking at some other units for sale.

So, the good news is that Progressive were not total schmucks -- at least in this case. And that the "cash value" policy worked out OK -- again, at least in this case. But the uncomfortable part about it is that there is no guarantee that they would handle it the same with a different incident and a different adjuster in the future. In the end, the only way to be confident there won't be any negotiation is with the agreed value policy with an appraisal.

Here's that thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...ce-103399.html

[CA_Tallguy]

OK, here's even more detail.... the quotes they emailed me broke out how much the comprehensive and collision coverage was, separately from the full-timer RV coverage. I don't know if these rates are different with/without the full-timer coverage, but in any case, it's interesting to see how they break out....

AGREED VALUE OF $15K WITH $1K deductible: $721/yr for comprehensive, and just $50 for collision!

CASH VALUE OF $7.5K WITH $1K deductible: $343/yr for comprehensive and $19 for collision!

I'm a bit shocked at how cheap the collision coverage is! To me, I feel like I'm at 100 times the risk of something happening to my trailer when it is moving!? The agent said that the comprehensive claims come in at a much higher rate than the collision, however. Does this make sense to you other folks out there? Does this hold true with our Airstreams? I know hail damage is likely the biggest risk to a trailer when parked. But otherwise, I hear so many more stories about trailers being totaled in traffic collisions.

Based on the huge difference between comprehensive and collision rates, maybe I'll raise my deductible on the comprehensive to try to bring the cost down, and reduce it for collision since it should be cheap to do so.

And for anyone interested -- the full-timer RV insurance was just $57/year on both quotes for $100K per person/$300K per incident coverage, along with $5K for medical and $5K for storage shed contents included.

[TinTin]

I would think hail, vandalism, fire might be higher risk possibilities than collision, but that's just a guess.

The annual premiums that you quote are awfully high, I suppose that's related to full-timing. Premiums here are much cheaper for recreational trailers, when you add a clause to your home policy for current model year replacement. That covers comprehensive and collision. Liability (i.e. the trailer hurts someone) is taken care of by the TV policy.

[TinTin]

I guess my point re the previous post is this: why would vintage trailers with agreed upon value of 15K/1K deductible be charged a premium of 721/year, when a newer AS can be insured with a current year replacement guarantee (in my case 70K) 0.5K deductible at a premium of 250/year?

Makes no sense.