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Old 12-08-2008, 04:27 PM   #29
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update on Progressive

Update on Progressive... We found a 1968 Overlander in October. I signed in to Progressive website and got insured agreed upon value of $2,000. Today I got a letter saying they changed my settlement option to market value. They never told me I had to get it appraised or any of that. Once I get it restored I may do that.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:22 PM   #30
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I am thinking that getting coverage for your Airstream through your auto policy may actually be for a small trailer for towing an ATV, a load of lumber, etc. It could be a rider on the auto policy and thus probably be only be an extension of auto liability coverage. The agent may not understand the policy. Years ago insurance agents made a middle class living from commissions (my father-in-law was an agent; he retired around 1990 as things were starting to get bad), but commissions have been cut and cut some more and the quality of agents naturally suffers.

Insurance is regulated by the states and depending on the state, specific coverages may or may not be mandated or offered in all sorts of ways. Some states regulate premiums, others don't. Colorado, for example, has generally let the insurance companies do whatever they want. Coverages change all the time, often giving you less and less. Over the years there has been a change in the attitude of the insurance industry—they, generally, try not to pay claims figuring on wearing you out so you'll give up. Sometimes it costs more to fight you than they save, but they don't care.

Some companies have worse records than others. State Farm has been sued many times for not paying claims and I believe there have been some major class actions against them. We have Progressive and have only had one claim. It was handled professionally and promptly. It was not on our trailer. Because I want to stay married, I won't tell you who was at fault. There's no way real insurance on an expensive trailer is going to be less than $100. Most states have mandatory liability coverage and that is for a self propelled vehicle—maybe that's what the agent quoted 6 years ago meant. Of course, a trailer could become self propelled due to gravity and foolishness.

It's important to read the policy to know what is covered. Unfortunately, you never see the policy until after you pay the binder. The companies try to hold you to a contract which is often vaguely written that you never actually agreed to. Question the agent carefully. Check company websites, and, of course, lots of information is available on the Forum. GStephens post #27 is very helpful for example.

The consumer is pretty much on our own. Years ago agents were independent agents who represented us and guided us to the best policy (we hoped, but maybe the policy with the best commission for them) and if we had a claim, they guided us through that. In the 1980's the companies started tying the agents to them and tried to eliminate the independent agents. Those company dedicated agents work for the company, not us. If we have a claim, we are directed to someone in the company bureaucracy who doesn't know us and simply does what he or she is told to do. I used to have one agent for all insurance. Now I have 3, 2 independent—one for auto and trailer, one for homeowners, one for health insurance. We bought road service for the trailer from Good Sam, no agent necessary.

I have experience challenging the industry, so we almost always get what we are claiming, but not everyone wants to go to law school, get a law license, and then fight for full payment. It's just not cost effective. It's a much more confusing world now—we have 2 phone companies (cell and landline), an ISP, satellite TV, but I used to pay $8/month for a phone (that's when I made $70/week).

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Old 12-08-2008, 09:50 PM   #31
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We have Allstate. Allstate has insured my homes and vehicles for over 25 years. The few claims that we have turned all have been handled to our satisfaction. 2 1/2 years ago we bought our Trade Wind and insured it with All/St at an agreed value of 5k. Well to no ones surprise we have more than doubled that value with upgrades and improvements. I plan on uping the value and have been compiling the sold prices on similar Airstreams to support my argument if need be. But first I am entering the begining of a claim for side panel replacement (Oops I scraped a steel post). Allstate has given me a claim number and I have selected the Airstream shop to do the repair. Rough verbal estimate is 3k to 4k. The shop is about to turn their estimate and thus we will hear soon the results. Wish us well. I will update you.
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UPDATE;
The Allstate 'adjuster' was here 3 days ago and inspected our damage. The repair estimate by our selected Airstream service shop is about $3200. The adjuster telephoned the shop for verification and told me he will approve the repairs at that price minus my deductible. Then he asked if I was satisfied with the entire claim process. I mentioned that I did have to make a couple of unnecessary followup calls to Allstate to 'keep the ball rolling'. He appologized and waived my deductible. So my only out of pocket expense will be the travel (2 1/2 hour drive). We can overnight at the repair facility. Kidda like a 3 night camping trip.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:14 PM   #32
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Progressive

We insured ours last year and they told us we had to get it appraised for the full amount. When we are finished with our repairs I will get the AS appraised.

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Originally Posted by kokopat View Post
Update on Progressive... We found a 1968 Overlander in October. I signed in to Progressive website and got insured agreed upon value of $2,000. Today I got a letter saying they changed my settlement option to market value. They never told me I had to get it appraised or any of that. Once I get it restored I may do that.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:26 PM   #33
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All this upgrading of insurance without an "agreed value" policy through various companies is well and good PROVIDED you don't suffer a catastrophic loss. Bragging about how cheap your premiums are is well and good PROVIDED you don't have a catastrophic loss.

Panel replacement from a hail storm can easily exceed $25,000 on one of our trailers. On a vintage trailer, we might feel we know what its value is, but I assure you the insurance company without an "agreed value" policy will discount the overall value of your trailer to a rediculously low value if you only "stated its value" regardless of how many documents you show them. 'Agreed Value" ande "Stated Value" policies are two entirely different products (policies). You loose big time when if you don't know the difference.

If you own a newer trailer, then these problems don't arise because the trailer's book value will exceed the cost of panel replacement, but on a vintage trailer you must get an "agreed value" contract. To have such a policy requires two things: 1) the trailer must be appraised, and 2) such a policy requires an insurance company that offers an "agreed value" policy. Ask all the questions of your various insurance companies and you will find that only one offers such a policy on older Airstreams at this time. At least that was the case several years ago when I researched this question. That company is PROGRESSIVE.

In an earlier post I told how I "thought" I was covered through Foremost. As I am trying to do with you, another forums member tried to tell me different and I argued just as many of you are now doing. That forums member stayed with me and eventually convinced me. Had he not I would have learned a very expensive lesson just like some of you may learn, The agent had even told me I'd be covered. I had talked to someone who answered the phone at headquarters and they also told me I was covered, but at the insistance of the forum member who was trying to help me, I phoned the company headquarters again and had a discussion with a supervisor. He eventually admitted that I wasn't covered through the Foremost "stated value" policy. He said my trailer would be depreciated, perhaps severely from the figure entered on my policy. My coverage and the value of my trailer would certainly be discounted in the event of a catastrophic loss and I would not be covered.

I contacted Progressive and I took out an "agreed value" policy. It required an appraisal. I contacted three different Airstream dealers before I found one who would give me an appraisal on my trailer, but I secured one eventually. It was appraised for $17,000. I accepted that value even though I thought it was worth more and obtained my policy through Progressive.

Several years later (two years ago) I did suffer a catastrophic loss to the tune of $24,000 damages to a 1982 trailer in a hail storm. It doesn't take a genius to know that most 1982 trailers are probably not worth more than $6,000 to $8,000 on eBay and there is no Blue Book value on a trailer that old. That is all I would have received had I not had the "agreed value" policy, but I had an "agreed value" policy with Progressive in the amount of $17,000 and they paid right off. Try that with any other type of policy, especially those of you who are insuring your trailer as an attachment to your auto policy or those paying $80 a year for your coverage. If you have a repair for more than a few thousand dollars, the insurance company will simply total your trailer. Then it will be too little, too late and a VERY expensive lesson learned.

GStephens
Well Gayland you have me convinced. But why in the world don't you give us an idea of what a 17,000 Agreed policy costs yearly.
How much was the deductable?
Did you switch all your coverage (auto & homeowner etc) to the Progressive?
Have you stayed with them?
What did you do with the damaged trailer? If fixed, do you now have a salvage title or regular title?

thanks
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:12 PM   #34
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Progressive does not insure homes.

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Old 03-19-2014, 09:08 PM   #35
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Well Gayland you have me convinced. But why in the world don't you give us an idea of what a 17,000 Agreed policy costs yearly.
How much was the deductable?
I know this thread is old but thought I'd share my quote just now on Progressive website. NOTE: it seems like you might have to go through an agent to get an agreed value policy as they only allowed me to choose ACTUAL CASH VALUE on the website for my 1977 trailer. They do say that AGREED value is only available through certain sources -- very vague, but sounds like you need an agent, or perhaps a certain type of agent.

Anyway, I put in a bunch of values to get some ideas, and the rates came out to $500 to $800 a year for values of like $15k to $20k and modest deductibles. NOTE: this was for "full timer" insurance so there is a good chunk of extra coverage in these quotes that casual/recreational trailer owners will not need.

I'd be furious if I put in a value of $25k and paid those premiums and then found out through a claim about the "actual cash value" basis.

By putting in a low trailer value (which might be a "realistic" value under their "actual cash value" model) they do have rates as low as $350/yr. I'm wondering if it might be good to get a basic policy like this for the liability aspects and to offset a small amount of a total loss -- and maybe this would also cover a moderate incident with a couple grand of repair costs. Having this type of policy in conjunction with regular coverage for my tow vehicle would make me feel 100% confident that they are acknowledging my full-timer status. (I feel like my current tow vehicle policy, even though I bought it through an RV agent, isn't as clear on this.)

It's unfortunate that our love of these darn trailers is so difficult when it comes to insurance! I'm going to have to get my records in better shape and try to work toward getting an appraisal and an agreed value policy. I shudder to think about what it would take to document a loss with so many individual upgrades, not to mention personal items inside the trailer.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:16 PM   #36
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FYI - I called RV Advantage/Farm & City/FCIS insurance (an agent for Progressive and others) for a more detailed Progressive quote and to find out about "agreed value" compared to the cash value basis. They quoted me $539 for a actual cash value policy stating the trailer was worth $15k. Sadly, the rate went UP to $828 on an "agreed value" basis with the same $15k stated value (for which they said they would need an appraisal within 30 days of policy issuance -- and they have approved appraisers that you need to call).

For a cash value policy stating the trailer value as $7500, the rate came down to $419. This is about the max I think they would pay out on a cash value policy anyway, so insuring for cash value above this is useless.

Note that all these amounts are for "full timer" insurance and include a discount for having my tow vehicle on a policy with them as well.

It's frustrating that these companies are more than happy to charge you premiums to insure higher values that there is no chance of them every paying out on. The way I see it, if they take your money to insure a higher value, they should be required to pay out on it! I guess that is why they charge so much more for the agreed value policy. But still, it seems like a racket to let people unwittingly buy too much insurance on the cash value basis.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:30 PM   #37
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One more note -- in another thread, a member dealing with a Progressive claims adjuster after an incident with a tree said the adjuster initially came back to them with an offer of $1100 to total the trailer. The member said that they felt this was what Progressive would have said on any 1977 trailer (such as mine). In the end, after some negotiations, this member said that Progressive went with some comparative values, looking at some other units for sale.

So, the good news is that Progressive were not total schmucks -- at least in this case. And that the "cash value" policy worked out OK -- again, at least in this case. But the uncomfortable part about it is that there is no guarantee that they would handle it the same with a different incident and a different adjuster in the future. In the end, the only way to be confident there won't be any negotiation is with the agreed value policy with an appraisal.

Here's that thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...ce-103399.html
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:50 PM   #38
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OK, here's even more detail.... the quotes they emailed me broke out how much the comprehensive and collision coverage was, separately from the full-timer RV coverage. I don't know if these rates are different with/without the full-timer coverage, but in any case, it's interesting to see how they break out....

AGREED VALUE OF $15K WITH $1K deductible: $721/yr for comprehensive, and just $50 for collision!

CASH VALUE OF $7.5K WITH $1K deductible: $343/yr for comprehensive and $19 for collision!

I'm a bit shocked at how cheap the collision coverage is! To me, I feel like I'm at 100 times the risk of something happening to my trailer when it is moving!? The agent said that the comprehensive claims come in at a much higher rate than the collision, however. Does this make sense to you other folks out there? Does this hold true with our Airstreams? I know hail damage is likely the biggest risk to a trailer when parked. But otherwise, I hear so many more stories about trailers being totaled in traffic collisions.

Based on the huge difference between comprehensive and collision rates, maybe I'll raise my deductible on the comprehensive to try to bring the cost down, and reduce it for collision since it should be cheap to do so.

And for anyone interested -- the full-timer RV insurance was just $57/year on both quotes for $100K per person/$300K per incident coverage, along with $5K for medical and $5K for storage shed contents included.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:02 PM   #39
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I would think hail, vandalism, fire might be higher risk possibilities than collision, but that's just a guess.

The annual premiums that you quote are awfully high, I suppose that's related to full-timing. Premiums here are much cheaper for recreational trailers, when you add a clause to your home policy for current model year replacement. That covers comprehensive and collision. Liability (i.e. the trailer hurts someone) is taken care of by the TV policy.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:50 PM   #40
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I guess my point re the previous post is this: why would vintage trailers with agreed upon value of 15K/1K deductible be charged a premium of 721/year, when a newer AS can be insured with a current year replacement guarantee (in my case 70K) 0.5K deductible at a premium of 250/year?

Makes no sense.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:41 PM   #41
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Part of the problem with trying to compare rates is not just between what it might be in Canada or the US, but in the US insurance rates differ across state lines. (That is the whole issue about the ACA in that, cheaper rates "could" be available but you can't shop "across state lines" because insurance is regulated state-by-state.)

Even if you could answer the "whys" of insurance, the answer might not apply except in that state and under those circumstances with a particular company.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:56 PM   #42
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Good points, TinTin. I've been trying to wrap my head around it too. For comparison, I just pulled a quote saying that the trailer would be used less than 30 days per year rather than full time and it came out to $432 for cash value coverage at $15K stated value (vs about $539 stating that it would be used full time). So, not too big of a difference.

(Progressive gets pretty granular about frequency of use, by the way. They have less than 30 days, 30 to 150, greater than 150, and as a residence/full time.)

Jacking up the comprehensive deductible to $5k surprisingly didn't do a whole lot for this quote either -- only dropping it by $40. That's very surprising as with a $5K deductible you are almost negating the benefit of that coverage.

They still want $279/year if I state the trailer is worth $5K and opt for a $2.5K deductible on comprehensive and $1000 on collision! This coverage actually might be something for me to consider as I feel like it would be a fight to get more than $5K from them in a claim on the trailer anyway (unless I opted for the "agreed value" coverage).

In a way, low balling the stated value to the best guess on what they would willingly pay out like this seems like a good way to make sure you're not paying more in premiums for an amount they would never pay off anyway.... so essentially I would stand a good chance of being "guaranteed" the $5K less deductible. I'd have to make sure that this would indeed be ethical and legal, and that the stated value would have the effect of limiting the policy to that amount. I think that it would be OK on all fronts.

I agree that $721 on comprehensive seems like a lot when their exposure is just $15K. On the other hand, I think you are getting a GREAT deal on your insurance for $250/year. And the $19 to $50/year they quoted me for the collision portion seems too good to be true as well.

My guess is that one factor on your rates is that a *new* Airstream is closer in-line with other items that insurance companies are covering --- in the way that it is depreciating and such. Trying to insure a vintage trailer is more of an oddball thing where perhaps they haven't thought through the policy pricing as much. But in any case, for someone to take on $70K in risk with your trailer for just $250/year seems like an amazing deal.

Hmmm. Well I'd gladly pay Progressive's quoted $57/yr for full-timer insurance and $50/yr for collision. Those are no-brainers at those prices. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't sell collision without the comprehensive... maybe not even the full-timer insurance without the whole package as well.

Not sure where to go from here. Maybe I'll get more quotes from other companies although from reading posts on Airforums it seems like Progressive has the best options for true "agreed value" coverage. I suppose that I can double check the rates I've been quoted as well, though the agent's prices seem to be pretty well in-line with the quotes I've pulled directly on the Progressive website so I have little reason to question things.

Or, maybe I'll continue with "self-insurance" as I have been to date.
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