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Old 04-20-2016, 02:38 PM   #15
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Best way to know, is to read your coverage terms.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Check your insurance policy - and get ready to puke!

I started another thread about 2 weeks ago, asking where I should go to get insurance on my 1984 Avion which is finally finished. Progressive, Foremost, Farm Bureau, and a couple of others were mentioned.

None offer an "Agreed Value" policy any longer - it's "Stated Value" - which means I can STATE that mine would take $40K to replace, but if I'm in a wreck or it's stolen, they can come back in and do an NADA Blue book and pay $10K and call it good. (I CAN keep all my receipts, have a detailed set of pictures taken of every upgrade, and dispute their total, but I'll probably have a 2 year fight on my hands AND pay a lawyer to get a reasonable settlement.

Apparently a lot of companies have changed their policy offerings within the last six months or so... so if you just paid you premium, but didn't read through the whole 30 page policy, surprise, you may not have the coverage you need.

I've been hoping that it was just a Virginia thing, but I asked Frank to give me the name of his agent (who has a couple of vintage Airstreams himself) and NO JOY!

I've even offered to change the insurance on my truck over to any company willing to insure my trailer but so far no luck. It looks like I'll have to be severely underinsured or sell the trailer. Crikey! When you get a new policy if you don't have an agent go over it one page at a time ... the company may have changed the terms and you may be completely underinsured.

IF I HAD a house, I might have a etter chance of getting insurance. Fulltimers - do it in a nearly new unit. You can get replacement coverage for the first five years on most of those!

Paula
I dropped Progressive and went with Good Sam. They placed me with Allied an Allstate company. I needed to provide an appraisal. I have agreed amount of $31,000 on my 66 Globe Trotter and it didn't need to be in a locked garage and was half the cost of Progressive. I can give you the agents name if you like. Just email me at floridalarry@me.com or I can post it here when I get home
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:03 PM   #17
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When I insured my Silver Streak I found comps of similar trailers that had been sold. Provided them lots of pictures and came to a value. My policy states the value we agreed on at the time the policy was written. I don't know what more can be done.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:41 PM   #18
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Streamers: I gotta laugh. When camped I lower my 1958 Caravanner to the ground because I've no solid axle-rather 2 air bags for 11" lift or down to full kneel. A thief would say this thing has tires but how can I make it roll. You'd have to know the code to activate the air compressor or I suppose go out and rent a very long tilt bed car hauler. When camped and not set up yet a burglar would find only a styrofoam twin mattress folded up at each end. When gone I fold up and lock in place. Would make for some austere camping. Might slam the door with anger as he departed. When not set up I don't lock the door (why pay for a repair) weather or not the slant ramp is upright or deployed. And you can not lower the ramp unless air compressor code is known. Can't break windows with a ball bat since they are 1/4" polycarbonate. My rig tows almost completely empty. All contents when OTR are loaded in the bed and covered by my Escalade EXT policy (TV) It's not that hard to unload trailer and go. Have $11K in it but as a trailer claim would not get "Jack". It's a shell and when set up who wants to load the wood stove for heating or cooking. I dare to say I probably can't find anyone to take it as a gift if forced to use it for camping. I took it in to price for trade and many salesmen were called to observe and many laughs later I offered to give them the "pink" if they had a trailer to compare in any parameter. Problem is I adore it.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:49 PM   #19
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So you pay for $40k worth of coverage and they cover $10k. Great business model...
I realize I am quoting myself here but I still don't get it. What industry estimates a value of something, charges you a fee based on that value, and then lowers the value after the fact? It's insanity.

It's no different in concept then you walking into a restaurant and ordering a $10 sandwich, then when you are done they say you have to pay $40.

Nobody would accept that but it's exactly what the insurance industry does. Just in the opposite direction so to speak.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:17 PM   #20
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Yikes!! 😳😬 Not good news. May take $Hide's advice and pray we don't have a need for insurance the first few years, and hopefully never.
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:45 PM   #21
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The responsibility of the insurer to the insured is to make you "Whole" prior to the claim. "Whole" means to repair to or replace the asset to "market value". No more No less! So what really is the current "Market Value" on the date of loss?

There are several good posts describing the difference between "Agreed" value coverage and "Stated Value" coverage. "Agreed" coverage is typically only offered on vintage assets and/or assets where the use of the asset is restricted in one or more ways in the "Terms & Conditions" section of the policy. A late model Airstream trailer is a depreciating asset and as such NO insurer is going to insure that asset for an "Agreed" value as the value of that asset depreciates every month. It's a USED trailer and used trailers goes down in value just like a USED car. Airstreams included! You don't accept use restrictions on your late model driver car and as such I'll bet you would not accept restrictions on the use of your late model Airstream trailer. Again a significant part of an "Agreed" value policy are the restrictions associated with those policies which is why Hagerty and all the others can offer collector car insurance as such a cheap rate. The policy restrictions limits the potential loss exposure for the insurer for the car/asset. A BIG part of these policies is that both the insurer and the insured BOTH "Agree" to the value of the asset before the policy is issued, the policy restrictions and the rate (Dollars) the insured pays for the coverage. You also both "Agree" that this asset is NOT a depreciating asset!

With "Stated Value" insurance for the most part you can "State" any value you want as long as that value is market value or higher of the asset on the date of coverage and they will charge you premium based upon that "Stated Value". When there is a total loss the insurer will PAY YOU Current Market Value of the Asset on the date of loss which may or may not be the "Stated Value". In some states like Tennessee that also includes payment for sales tax based upon that payout.

What you have "Spent" on your trailer may or may not effect the market value of the trailer. New tires will increase the market value of the trailer. New curtains will not. Just because you spent a lotta money on your trailer and you may think that money spent on the items makes your trailer worth a lot more might be seen as a waste of money to me. Hence "Market Value" in your local market. That trailer might be worth MORE in California than in Tennessee however we are in Tennessee and not California therefore the "Market Value" number you will be paid is LESS.

6 years ago the Great Nashville Flood hit in May of 2010. My vintage race car was insured with State Farm on a Stated Value policy for $25K. They sent out a knowledgeable appraiser who knew what he was looking at and State Farm paid $25K for the total loss plus sales tax as that was the true Current Market Value. Pretty simple process so YES a "Stated Value" policy can pay in full. As a matter of fact State Farm paid MORE than the "Stated Value" on the policy It's ALL about the true Current Market Value of the asset on the Date of Loss. In my situation the 2 market value numbers MATCHED!!!

I can see one of the Collector car type of insurers insuring a vintage Airstream for an "Agreed" amount. I can also see that same insurer requiring that trailer to be kept in a locked garage on your personal residence/property and limiting the use of that trailer to trailer hobby events just as they do with collector cars. I'll bet VERY few vintage Airstream owners could or would be able to meet the restrictions that type of policy would require must less accept them!

So what's an owner to do? Keep up with market values of trailers matching your trailer. Keep extensive records on your trailer. Keep current detailed pictures of your trailer and MOST important USE your trailer for the reasons you bought it and have FUN!
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Check your insurance policy - and get ready to puke!

I started another thread about 2 weeks ago, asking where I should go to get insurance on my 1984 Avion which is finally finished. Progressive, Foremost, Farm Bureau, and a couple of others were mentioned.

None offer an "Agreed Value" policy any longer - it's "Stated Value" - which means I can STATE that mine would take $40K to replace, but if I'm in a wreck or it's stolen, they can come back in and do an NADA Blue book and pay $10K and call it good. (I CAN keep all my receipts, have a detailed set of pictures taken of every upgrade, and dispute their total, but I'll probably have a 2 year fight on my hands AND pay a lawyer to get a reasonable settlement.

Apparently a lot of companies have changed their policy offerings within the last six months or so... so if you just paid you premium, but didn't read through the whole 30 page policy, surprise, you may not have the coverage you need.
I don't claim to know anything about this, but last September we insured our 1980 Caravelle with a Progressive agreed value policy written by FCIS Insurance. http://www.fcisinsurance.com/

Under collision and comprehensive coverages the policy declarations page states "AGREED VALUE $XX,XXX.XX" where the X's are the value determined by an appraiser we picked from a list that FCIS provided. So I assume that we do in fact have an Agreed Value policy.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:14 AM   #23
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It is strange that so many of us are getting conflicting information regarding Progressive's willingness to write an agreed value policy for an RV, and what that policy says.

They openly advertise the agreed value coverage option on their website. I changed from an actual cash value policy earlier this year to an agreed value policy. The maximum amount they will agree to is $75,000, so that may limit whether this option works for you and your trailer. My premium increased 6% from my premium for the ACV policy. There are no new restrictions on trailer use or storage. The agreed value policy says that, in the event of a total loss, Progressive's liability is the agreed value as listed in the declarations, less any deductible. This is not a stated value policy, and they do not have the choice to use ACV in the event of a total loss. To confirm this as best I could, I spoke with a Progressive claims counselor yesterday after reading this helpful thread and they confirmed that Progressive will pay that agreed amount in the event of a total loss, less deductible. I sent an email back to that counselor describing our conversation so that, in the event Progressive tries to do otherwise, I at least have something evidencing the conversation.
Best,
Joe
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:19 AM   #24
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I should add that my trailer is a 2015 and I'm in Florida, and I'm not sure if my experience with Progressive reflects what someone with an older trailer or in another state would experience. Joe
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:15 AM   #25
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Thank you all for the heads up on this as I will be purchasing for my '84 Land Yacht
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:25 AM   #26
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Insurance is generally regulated by the states. Most have an agency called the Insurance Commission which sets rules and provides some oversight. The reality is there is little oversight and the industry is poorly regulated almost everywhere.

For several years I had Progressive on our motor vehicles and trailer, but one day they told me I would get a big premium increases because we didn't owe any money and only had one credit card. I told them we had two credit cards and excellent credit. They didn't care.

I suppose I could have contacted Flo or the talking box, but instead I contacted a Farmer's agent who had our homeowners' policy for the motor vehicles and Good Sam for the trailer. Both saved us money since Flo must get paid a lot. Good Sam simply acts as an agent for various companies in the various states. In Colorado they sent me to GMAC and I found I could cancel part of the policy when in "storage" (next to my house was fine with them). Even if I called them to put it in "storage" months after the fact because I forgot to call them, they didn't quibble and sent me a check. I do this every year and have saved many hundreds of dollars. I have theft, fire, etc. coverage year 'round and liability and such when it is on the road. Since then GMAC changed its name to National General. Since our trailer is not "vintage", value doesn't seem to be a big problem. I don't know when "vintage" applies either—10 years? 20 years?

Though I would tell a client to read their policies, I never read them until I need to. Maybe I need to.

If someone totals your trailer, your policy determines what you get though you may have pursue someone else for the deductible. If a tire separates and tears up the side of the trailer you will make a claim with your insurance company and either they or you will contact the tire company for the deductible and maybe more. If you damage it (unintentionally), then you have to deal with your insurer exclusively (and maybe your spouse). Intentional damage is covered by no insurance policy. Arguing with your insurer and possibly threatening contacting the state's insurance regulator may help.

In many cases the insurer will use the NADA book because it has the lowest values. You will have to come up with other values from various sources (Forum classifieds have asking prices only, so not a great source; dealers' prices on lots have the same problem; estimated value or a formal appraisal by a dealer or restorer may be the best source that is fairly easy to get). You will possibly end up negotiating with the insurer and a general rule of negotiations is never take the first offer. If they are obstinate, then start talking about the Insurance Commission.

Gene
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:25 PM   #27
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Yes, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayseejay View Post
It is strange that so many of us are getting conflicting information regarding Progressive's willingness to write an agreed value policy for an RV, and what that policy says.

They openly advertise the agreed value coverage option on their website. I changed from an actual cash value policy earlier this year to an agreed value policy. The maximum amount they will agree to is $75,000, so that may limit whether this option works for you and your trailer. My premium increased 6% from my premium for the ACV policy. There are no new restrictions on trailer use or storage. The agreed value policy says that, in the event of a total loss, Progressive's liability is the agreed value as listed in the declarations, less any deductible. This is not a stated value policy, and they do not have the choice to use ACV in the event of a total loss. To confirm this as best I could, I spoke with a Progressive claims counselor yesterday after reading this helpful thread and they confirmed that Progressive will pay that agreed amount in the event of a total loss, less deductible. I sent an email back to that counselor describing our conversation so that, in the event Progressive tries to do otherwise, I at least have something evidencing the conversation.
Best,
Joe
My Progressive policy reads the same way. The policy also contains another clause that, in my recollection since I don't have the policy at hand this week, says that in the event of a damage claim, they will pay for repairs up to the actual cash value. It would seem that if they are refusing to pay for the repairs, that is a total loss, but it's not that clearly stated. One would be well advised, as others have suggested, to keep a document file supporting the value. Since I bought my 2002 trailer from an Airstream dealer, I think that should suffice for the near future.

Al
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Insurance is generally regulated by the states. Most have an agency called the Insurance Commission which sets rules and provides some oversight. The reality is there is little oversight and the industry is poorly regulated almost everywhere.

For several years I had Progressive on our motor vehicles and trailer, but one day they told me I would get a big premium increases because we didn't owe any money and only had one credit card. I told them we had two credit cards and excellent credit. They didn't care.

I suppose I could have contacted Flo or the talking box, but instead I contacted a Farmer's agent who had our homeowners' policy for the motor vehicles and Good Sam for the trailer. Both saved us money since Flo must get paid a lot. Good Sam simply acts as an agent for various companies in the various states. In Colorado they sent me to GMAC and I found I could cancel part of the policy when in "storage" (next to my house was fine with them). Even if I called them to put it in "storage" months after the fact because I forgot to call them, they didn't quibble and sent me a check. I do this every year and have saved many hundreds of dollars. I have theft, fire, etc. coverage year 'round and liability and such when it is on the road. Since then GMAC changed its name to National General. Since our trailer is not "vintage", value doesn't seem to be a big problem. I don't know when "vintage" applies eitheró10 years? 20 years?

Though I would tell a client to read their policies, I never read them until I need to. Maybe I need to.

If someone totals your trailer, your policy determines what you get though you may have pursue someone else for the deductible. If a tire separates and tears up the side of the trailer you will make a claim with your insurance company and either they or you will contact the tire company for the deductible and maybe more. If you damage it (unintentionally), then you have to deal with your insurer exclusively (and maybe your spouse). Intentional damage is covered by no insurance policy. Arguing with your insurer and possibly threatening contacting the state's insurance regulator may help.

In many cases the insurer will use the NADA book because it has the lowest values. You will have to come up with other values from various sources (Forum classifieds have asking prices only, so not a great source; dealers' prices on lots have the same problem; estimated value or a formal appraisal by a dealer or restorer may be the best source that is fairly easy to get). You will possibly end up negotiating with the insurer and a general rule of negotiations is never take the first offer. If they are obstinate, then start talking about the Insurance Commission.

Gene
Yes read your policy! In 1989 I had 4 young kids and the wife so when an agent came to the truck terminal where I worked out of it was easy for him to sell me a $30,000 life insurance policy. Last month after paying $44.00 a month since 1989 and never missing a payment I got a letter informing me I owed $1,034 additional since the value of the policy had not been enough. This was given to the NJ Ins. Com. who could not help.
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