Time to renew insurance - HELP!

[iowaroots]

It sounds like you may have had unrealistic/underinsured rates in the past that were so low that it feels like $500+ is high. Imo they are reasonable at $500. What feels wrong is the low rates you were used to. Progressive has been a good option in the past, check with them.

[mccrosti]

In NC your TV collision insurance extends to the trailer as long as the trailer is connected to the TV. If you don't have trailer insurance, you are out of luck if there is a claim.

If you have a$25000 trailer and you're paying $500.00 per year for insurance it'll take the company 40 years to be paid for the assumed risk.
Not that I'm defending them I am not. Just doing the numbers.




Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[iowaroots]

Having heard great things about USAA, I tried to do business with them to only be denied because they are "military affiliated exclusive". If my military Dad (WWII) would have done business with them before he died then our family members would have been eligible but he did not do business with them so we are the unclean. Can anyone share their understanding of this issue?

[n2916s]

USAA started out as "military officers only". It is a mutual company, essentially owned by its members who elect a board and corporate officers.

Later, they allowed all ranks to join. The charter that established the company restricts it to military personnel, their dependents and immediate family. It is a pool of drivers/homeowners of comparatively low risk.

I have been with them since I was commissioned in 1991 and they are an excellent company.

I can't imagine they will ever privatize like GEICO did (it was the Government Employees Insurance Company) but you never know. As it is, there is a huge pool of potential members and more each day so there is no real pressure to do so.

Mike

[CJ Winch]

I can't believe how ridiculous this is! Hartford won't even give me a quote unless I change my auto insurance to them. *We've been with Wawanesa for 30 years. Progressive asks what the value of my vehicle is, then won't give me a quote because I'm valuing it higher than NADA. I went to Geico's website and they wanted to know alot of personal information and when I asked my husband, he said "forget them, they don't need to know all that!"

I spend time on this everyday and still don't have a solution! With a total loss I can't get enough coverage to replace the rig, I would not be comfortable without insurance for damage (due to hail storm, or running into something) since repair on an A/S is very expensive, I've heard horror stories about repair costs and wouldn't want to be out of pocket for that. In the mean time, our rig is parked with no insurance coverage. Allied came close to what I would want, but when I found out they won't cover glass or awning - I didn't want that! One person said that wasn't excluded on his policy so maybe that is something new with them?

[lsbrodsky]

What it will cost you to replace the trailer does not matter; the NADA value is the best you can hope for in a 10+ year old trailer. That is simply the way it works, whatever your premium payment is. I think you have unrealistic expectations. Take what you can get or go uninsured. The insurance industry is ALWAYS going to come out ahead.
As for USAA, they are not what they used to be and not nearly as competitive in any line of insurance. For RV's, they don't even underwrite, they push you off to Progressive. I have been with them for 46 years and I think that is the only reason I am still with them. My auto insurance premiums are now equal to 2 other companies, my home hasn't been with them for years, my Umbrella is with RLI, and my RV is with Nationwide.
Larry

[dcasr]

Originally Posted by CJ Winch

I don't know why Allied will not cover awnings or glass, maybe that is something new, but I did confirm it with my agent. I called Nationwide and they will not do agreed value unless the vehicle was purchased within the last 13 months. 13.5 months in my case, but they will not make an exception. Nationwide will only do low NADA, which, again is only $13,800. Starting tomorrow we are uninsured. I have no idea what to do.

_______________
I shopped around for AGREED VALUE insurance in Georgia, and since my certified appraiser's evaluation was current, only one year old, Nationwide insured me for the AGREED VALUE, which I could live with. The downside is the $250-300 cost for an appraisal, well done with photos, comps etc, but once you have it, if you stay with the same insurance company, they only need an update about every five years.

If it doesn't say AGREED VALUE the insurance company will weasel out of paying much more than the scrap aluminum value on a total loss, and total the AS with very modest damage since repairs run into the thousands in a heart beat. Make sure that the certified appraiser you find does enough Airstreams that he or she knows what they are working with.

dcasr

[InterBlog]

I messed around with insurance for a long, frustrating time until someone on another thread recommended agent Ron Jarvie, Overland Insurance Services, 480-994-9584. He got me an agreed value policy with Progressive. My bill of sale (purchase) was more than 12 months old.

[rodsterinfl]

Last year I did extensive calling on details regarding insurance and created a thread on it:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f351...am-130237.html

Unless things have changed what some are saying is incorrect. I have Progressive insurance on everything but the Airstream. They will insure it but ONLY at NADA loss valuation as it is older than five years as per them. They do not offer agreed value, I was told unless it is newer. Look over the thread. I found detail after detail. Companies that do offer agreed value either have to have a receipt within a certain time of three years or less or an appraisal. An agreed value policy states in writing what you will get on a total loss to the penny, in the policy. If it does not state a value, then you do not have an agreed value policy.

What it will cost you to replace the trailer does not matter; the NADA value is the best you can hope for in a 10+ year old trailer. That is simply the way it works, whatever your premium payment is. I think you have unrealistic expectations. Take what you can get or go uninsured. The insurance industry is ALWAYS going to come out ahead.

Exactly, so THAT is WHY to get an agreed value policy. I have a nine year old trailer but as long as I keep the policy current. It is valued at what I paid for it at least. Not the ridiculous undervalued NADA figure. It was not much more on premium.

[TinShack]

Originally Posted by CJ Winch

I can't believe how ridiculous this is! Hartford won't even give me a quote unless I change my auto insurance to them. *We've been with Wawanesa for 30 years. Progressive asks what the value of my vehicle is, then won't give me a quote because I'm valuing it higher than NADA. I went to Geico's website and they wanted to know alot of personal information and when I asked my husband, he said "forget them, they don't need to know all that!"

I'm in California and have an agreed value policy through Progressive. The premium is based on value so for my 2005 Safari 28' I have an agreed value of $33,000 and my premium is about $332/yr (about 1%) . They do not require an appraisal according to my policy and according to conversations I've had with them, and have never mentioned NADA. The NADA value for my trailer is about $27,000 so my agreed value is higher than that. I adjust my value each year based on my own comparables research. I've been with them about 5 years.

[Inland RV Center, In]

value of a reconditioned Airstream, usually can be made by a good selling dealer.

Be advised, that there is 2 types of insurance available.

The cheapest by far, covers the trailer as long as it's physically attached to the tow vehicle. The insurance stops the instant you disconnect.

The better policy, by far, is one that covers the trailer regardless if it's parked by itself or being attached to a tow vehicle.

Insuraning with a well known Insurance Company, is also far better than an off brand.

Keep in mind, you get what you pay for. A super cheap policy provides not much.

Also, read the policy for it's little hits and misses, as well as the big stuff. You might be amazed.

Andy

[comprose]

For what's worth, if you have The Hartford through AARP, you might be able to add your RV to an existing auto policy. I've had more than positive support from them, with no hassle and quick response. And no, I'm not an AARP employee 😊
Mike

[Siegmann]

I do not have an agreed value policy. For those of you who have an agreed value policy, does it actually read "agreed value"? On my National Interstate policy declarations page it lists a dollar amount for the "Ratings Basis", from when I initiated the coverage, that is way more than current NADA. But under "Damage for Loss" it lists the "Limit of Liability" as the lesser of the "Ratings Basis" or the "Actual Cash Value". So I would only get the depreciated value. I suggest everyone should read the fine print buried in the back of the policy.

[rodsterinfl]

Yes, Siegmann it does. It is an addendum to the main policy that shows the original price paid and says that they agree to pay this figure. Actual cash value policy is a NADA valued policy. Cash Value can be wholesale or up to retail value at the time. Stated value or rated value is to determine your premium. I will tell you and anyone else reading this post that until you really push the issue of loss value you will not know. I started with mine on my auto policy but learned that there can be issues with a non rv policy. Example. You are going down the road and are in a wreck. The trailer is damaged. They will fix the trailer minus any deductible but lets say it damages the fridge. It may not be covered at all. (this was given to me by an rv insurance adjuster) Add to that, NADA value is used exclusively to value the trailer. I got an RV policy and was told it had more comprehensive coverage (thru Good Sam's) then I found that they too used NADA value. So, I started the long shopping quest for insurance. I learned about replacement value and agreed value policies. There is no year to year adjustment it is a set value based on the initial sale or by appraisal.

TinShack, my '06 is currently worth $10,600 - $12,800 NADA with no options added. That is full retail! Where do you buy a 2006 Safari 25' in good condition for that? The insurance company who works on NADA valuation works FROM those figures and, whose to say that they are going to give you full retail? I show a full NADA retail value on your '05 28' Safari as $18,800-$22,700.

Naturally states may be different but I tried Progressive as a Progressive customer first and was told that they did not offer agreed value policies unless it was new- that COULD be by state. For the most part it is Overland, FCIS, and Blue Skies or Sky something. The sad thing is that it is not that different in premium. This is the same kind of policy someone with say a customized '57 Chevy would want where value is more difficult to determine.

If you have a$25000 trailer and you're paying $500.00 per year for insurance it'll take the company 40 years to be paid for the assumed risk.
Not that I'm defending them I am not. Just doing the numbers.

True; however, they are getting money from many customers. The same is true with tow vehicles. I have a $60K truck and pay around $700/yr. They are banking that I will never have a claim and most don't and payouts are usually based on devalued vehicles.

[vintageracer]

As stated above LIABILITY insurance for your trailer is extended from the tow vehicle liability insurance coverage when on road and hitched to the tow vehicle. Not hitched to the tow vehicle your trailer has NO liability insurance however your trailer can STILL cause personal and property damage to others!

Since a trailer is not a "Motor Vehicle" you cannot buy ON ROAD liability insurance for your trailer. Now having said that another person could still make a liability claim for damage to others (That's what liability insurance covers) against your trailer IF it where to be unattached from the tow vehicle, rolled down a hill and hit/damage another persons property. In this case your homeowner's liability coverage "MAY" cover you in that situation. I suggest you read your homeowners policy to see if that is the case. If you don't have homeowner's insurance you may wish to see if you purchased an "Umbrella" liability policy would cover you in this situation or maybe your "Renters" insurance if you rent your main residence rather than own.

Since a trailer is a separate and insurable asset you can and should buy "comprehensive" and "collision" insurance for your trailer. This will cover your trailer for "Acts of God" damage (comprehensive) and on road wreck damage to your trailer caused by you (Collision). The type of "Comp & Collision" coverage you purchased should be determined by the age and value of your trailer.

The responsibility of the insurer is to make you "Whole" financially as you were prior to the loss. No more No less. Regular auto and trailer insurance is based upon Actual Cash Value (ACV) payout which is the value of the asset less depreciation. That means what it worth in the real world on the date of loss.

Example: You have you have 5 year old big screen TV that you paid $2000 for new that has been stolen. You call your insurance agent, make a claim and insurance will pay that claim LESS your deductible (Deductible is the amount you choose to self insure). Although that TV still works it's value less depreciation makes that TV worth about $200 on current market and that's what they will pay for your TV $200! WHY??? That same and/or better TV can be purchased new TODAY for about $500-$700 so therefore your 5 year $2000 when new TV is only worth about $200 in today's world therefore the $200 they pay you makes you "Whole" from a financial perspective based upon that TV's value on the date of loss AND the insurance contract that YOU entered into when you paid the premium. In this situation the insurer will have "Paid As Agreed"! You may be pissed however that's the deal YOU entered and accepted.

Sucks doesn't it???

Now for a late model trailer the ACV value of an Airstream trailer is very easy determine through price guides and RV dealers. A vintage trailer is a whole nother animal.

Just like classic cars vintage trailer values can vary widely. Market value is generally based upon CONDITION and that's where a collector type of policy or AGREED VALUE insurance policy becomes important. In the situation of a vintage RV trailer this will require the trailer owner and the insurer both "AGREE" on the value of the trailer, use of the trailer and storage conditions of the trailer. This generally means an appraisal to determine the current market value of the trailer. This is why collector car insurance policies are so cheap as these policies spell out everything that BOTH PARTIES, the insured and insurer, AGREE to abide by. Many times these policies will limit the use of the asset under certain conditions and the storage conditions required of the asset. For the insurer this means LESS RISK. For the insured this means LIMIT'S ON USE AND STORAGE CONDITIONS" as it relates to the asset (trailer).

So what's a person to do?

Quit shopping online for insurance and go meet with a REAL insurance agent of your choice and go over your insurance needs and requirements. Yes this will be a PITA. My question to each of you is:

Why did YOU not discuss all of this with your current insurance agent during last years annual insurance review???

I'll tell you why because your lazy A$$ insurance agent has NEVER called you, never met personally with you after he/she sold your your original insurance policy and never reviewed with you your ever changing insurance wants and needs based upon the inevitable changes in your life on a yearly basis.

Sad but TRUE!

Yes the professor in the Farmer's Insurance commercial's is correct. It's NOT all about price! It's about being properly covered insurance wise for the potential of personal liability and financial loss YOU could incur based upon your actions or the actions of others!

All the trailer insurance in the world is worth NOTHING if the insurer will not payoff a claim as you expected would happen. After all that's why you buy insurance to protect yourself from financial loss and financial liability.

As stated by a previous poster you do not have to purchase trailer insurance for your trailer to have liability coverage when going down the road as the tow vehicle liability insurance "extends" to your trailer. My next question then is do you have enough liability insurance coverage to pay for the injury and property damage you can/could cause in an accident???

As and example The State of Tennessee ONLY requires $25K/$50K/$15K as a minimum insurance requirement for a motor vehicle. What the Hell does that mean??? $25K MAX medical payout per person up to a $50K MAX medical payout for the claim. That's not much folks. The $15K is the maximum the insurer will pay for the property damage YOU caused to others. Are you going Hit and Total TODAY in the accident YOU CAUSE a $3K Toyota Echo OR a $50K Mercedes??? Are you going to hit anything like highway guardrail, signs or someone else's house in the accident you caused in addition to the vehicle you just hit and TOTALED???

If you don't have enough liability insurance coverage for the amount of damage YOU caused to OTHER PEOPLE you will find yourself being handed a summons to appear in court to address the lawsuit filed against YOU for damages as you WILL be sued in court by the parties you injured or damaged so they can recover the money they are owed for the damages, pain and suffering you caused above and beyond the liability limits of your insurance policy.

We can talk all we want about I have this insurance company or that insurance company and they are all good and great which for the most part is TRUE! That still does not mean YOU have the proper insurance for your personal situation.

CALL your insurance agent TODAY and schedule a FACE TO FACE meeting to actually understand is the insurance coverage you THINK YOU HAVE is truly the insurance coverage you REALLY HAVE!

[switz]

Most important - immediately read the policy when it arrives. There is a limited window to cancel at no charge if the terms in the policy are not the same you thought you were receiving.

[65Streamer]

Whoa! Great info here. Just to add from personal experience in the marine industry, I.E. An alternative expensive toy.
We see claims with adjusters that don't have the experience to diagnose what is wrong and often refuse to use all parts required and factory parts rather than aftermarket. The name I hear most often from unhappy dealers and and end-user/owners during hassles of underpaid, poorly handled or denied claims is Progresssive.
Can't say if they insure the majority of boats out there, in U.S., or these are just the complaints I hear. Maybe it can be traced to personnel or to the fine print.
It is what it is. I agree to the importance of reading the policy and having an agreed upon value with receipts, including maintainance, photos, comparable vehicle values/sales and an appraisal to back your claim.

[rodsterinfl]

Great post Vintageracer. You hit on a great point with regard to Airstreams. The issue is the depreciation versus the used prices- way off. That is why an agreed policy for a used one makes sense. Like I said, my NADA value is around 12-13K (what models about twice as old sell for) but I have 40K in it and that in only a few years of ownership plus the cost to purchase. That's too close to only 25% of value for me- ridiculous. So peeps, pay $350 for the NADA value policy- an agreed value one may be $400 and cover most if not all your investment.

[Inland RV Center, In]

This is how Caravanner Insurance Company operated, an old Insurance division of Airstream. It was a great outfit for me be one of their few employees.

Caravanner, was a stated value company

All the books that publish used prices, assume that the owner did next to nothing to keep the coach going. In their own way of thinking, they were correct many times.

Yes, the basic coach depreciates. No one argues that.

But, many owners, especially today, invest thousands of dollars to maintain as well as upgrading with many things, some of which did not exist when their Airstream was built.

The simple solution is DOCUMENT and DOCUMENT.

To establish a true realistic value takes more than a few minutes.

First, what is the true value of the coach, as stated by the books.

Second, document anything and every thing that you invested in upgrading, and add that to the total.

Third, within reason take 5 percent off of the upgrades, per year.

Fourth. The upgrade depreciation on the upgrades should not start until they are 3 years old.

Ball parking, within reason, in the case of missing of some records is OK, but not far out guestimates.

Depreciation has limits. Generally speaking, down to 50 percent is bottom line, for many things that are permanent in nature.

Many times however, back then, many owners did not have a clue as to the value of their Airstream trailer. That left Caravanner Insurance to offer a policy that was so to speak, an average.

Again, the simple secret is DOCUMENTATION, and yes, even repair bills.

If you do the work yourself, figure 50 percent of what the labor market is, and be reasonable with the hours. Most Insurance Companies will not argue with you about that. BUT, if they do, then "see ya" and try a different company or even a different agent.

And remember, have a policy that covers the trailer when it's hooked on to the tow vehicle, as well as when it is not.

Also, many many times, a homeowners insurance policy will cover some things about your Airstream as well. Just make sure that you tell them that you indeed have one, and provide the serial number.

Andy

[Brav]

FWIW, we checked with Geico and pay 39/mo on our new 2016 intl sig 25 FB (90k msrp) with good coverages and 500 deductible.