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Old 08-15-2005, 04:56 PM   #15
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Does anyone know where to get an appraisal for a 1979 safari? I just spent thousands of $$ to remodel and when I asked Progressive for a quote with an agreed value they asked for an appraisal certificate..but the agent was unable to say who actually does the appraisal. Any ideas on who the mystery appraisors might be? Thanks.
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:16 PM   #16
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atvmcg,

Not an easy task, as you have already experienced.

Where does the Airstream live? You failed to list any data in the 'Additional Information' section of your profile. If you provide those details, others on the Forum will know where you're coming from in future posts. Forum members may today know of someone near-by if we knew where by was.

For the appraisal, your best bet will be to find an Airstream dealer and/or an RV retail store that will agree to put a value in writing. Not many of them will, mostly because they don't truly have an understanding of values other than late models. There are some very knowledgable and qualified Airstream dealers scattered around the country that are capable of giving you an honest appraisal on a classic or vintage unit, you just have to find one. Call around and ask.

There are other methods outside of an apprasial, although they are painstaking, arduous and not always effective. Such as collecting the original bill of sale, receipts of all major expenditures (and throw your labor out the window). The underwriter should be queried before hand to determine if they will accept that form of data for establishing a value.

You may be able to assemble ebay information over a period of time and educate an auto dealership that specializes in classis and vintage cars & trucks. You may even get lucky and find a classic auto dealer that is familiar. An appraisal on that type of letterhead may be acceptable. Again, check first before paying out the appraisal fee.

One thing you don't want to do is 'create your own' or present them with a misrepresentation (not that you would), because if a major loss is adjusted by a real pro, it will be discovered as over insured and your entire claim may be denied.
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:02 PM   #17
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Gee and I was told my AS was too old to be insured. Where did you guys find insurance? I would sign up in half a heart beat if I could get a rate as quoted in this thread. Are you guys pulling my legs? I have very short legs that need stretching but come on guys.
Please prove me wrong.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:45 AM   #18
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I want to agree with the need for a forum on insurance and appraisal. I have gone through it and was lucky but saw how it could have gone the other way. The opposing insurance company refered to my classic motorhome as an old used beater and my insurance company refered to it as a "classic." They used Fred's Airstream Motorhome web page http://www.airstreammotorhomes.com/ to help establish a value and the fact that it indeed was a classic. There are resources like this available for our trailers as well. What we need to do is get it together and what better place than on this forum. The wealth of knowledge that is available here will allow us to get information so we can appraise, insure and protect our cherished treasures.
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:20 AM   #19
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I want to agree with the need for a forum on insurance and appraisal. I have gone through it and was lucky but saw how it could have gone the other way. ....
You (several of you) asked..... so..

We have added the new forum and a couple of others, Check out "dollars and Cents" Insurance, trailer values, claims issues. We've also just added and "global 'Streaming" - for international issues, including shipping, modifications and paperwork... Change happens!
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:20 PM   #20
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Keeping Up !

Great to belong to a progressive Forum.
Way to keep up with the times! ... Good job!
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:37 PM   #21
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No, no kidding. My agent just tacked it onto my car insurance. When I'm insuring ~400k in personal property, they must not worry about ~6k on a vintage camper. They didn't in my case. I told them how much I thought it was worth and they insured it for that. The homeowner's covers it in the driveway, the car insurance when towing and the camper insurance in case something else befalls it. We use an agent that has about 20 companies, and they're not the big names like AAA, or All-state. she just shopped around till she found us what we wanted. But also check Progressive, on the web. I got a quote on ours via the web. Yours should be no problem.

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBern
Gee and I was told my AS was too old to be insured. Where did you guys find insurance? I would sign up in half a heart beat if I could get a rate as quoted in this thread. Are you guys pulling my legs? I have very short legs that need stretching but come on guys.
Please prove me wrong.
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:20 PM   #22
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Hope this helps to answer some of questions. I have searched for a company that would insure an older TT or MH for replacement value and have been unable to locate one. Nearly any auto insurance company or Foremost, Good Sam GMAC, etc. will insure an older TT for Actual Cash Value (ACV). ACV is defined a couple of ways. Cost new minus depreciation or value of the TT or MH at the time of the loss. I insure my 1971 Avion for what I think it would cost to replace it with another '71 in similar condition. At the time of the loss it's up to the company's adjuster to arrive at a fair settlement with you within the limits of the policy. A good adjuster will inspect the loss then do some homework. He'll contact dealers, search completed auctions on EBay or even check with the few vintage dealers scattered around the country for comparative prices. You can help the adjuster arrive at a fair settlement by keeping the original sales receipt plus any reciepts you have for restoration and pictures. Lots of before and after pictures. Settlements are negotiable. Insurance companies are only as good as their agents and adjusters. When you buy insurance ask a million questions and understand what coverage you're buying. Don't assume that just because you have a "full coverage" policy that everything is covered. I can assure it's not. The typical insurance policy removes all coverage then gives back to you what the company wants to cover. Read it. Know how your company will settle the claim before you buy any policy. I found that the most knowledgeable adjusters work for the companies that insure a lot of RVs. Kind of makes since doesn't it.
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Old 08-16-2005, 09:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLuvShack
... ACV is defined a couple of ways. Cost new minus depreciation or value of the TT or MH at the time of the loss. ....
Well, my older Airstream's present day value is now more than what it cost new, (and I'm no where near done) so for me I don't think its a good idea to be insured with an ACV policy.

Documenting and justifying the value after a loss, in my opinion, would be little late. Too much of a gamble for me. Further, it is difficult enough to find an Airstream dealer with the knowledge of vintage values ... being assigned an adjuster with vintage value knowledge would be an extremely rare circumstance.

Personally, I want to know exactly what my insured value is going to be, so if I have a total loss or theft I will know exactly what the pay-out will be. Values should be established at the origin of the policy.

The before and after pictures is an excellent recommendation. Those could prove to be invaluable. Many insurance companies will require photographs when the policy is placed so they have a record of the condition.

It is not uncommon to insure your intended restoration with an initial value and increase the insured value at a later time. The initiation of your policy value documentation can be your bill-of-sale - the company rarely will quarrel with that. The problem then lies with obtaining the elusive 'appraisal' to establish the value after the restoration is complete.

Having a policy with out definition is not for me, nor would I recommend it for anyone. Post loss is not a good time to be negotiating.

I am aware that, since the knowledge level within the insurance industry is not as acute as it once was, non-normal claims are paid out (many times in full - many times not) because the time, expense & knowledge to evaluate the loss is not internally justified within the company. There is no computer program for vintage Airstreams (or boats, or classic cars, etc) that an adjuster can just plug in parts and pieces and print out a settlement.

So why take a chance?
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:50 AM   #24
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Norm,

As I mentioned, I can not find a "replacement" or an "agreed value" type policy on an older TT. When agents insure an older TT, most of them ask you "how much do you want to insure it for?" This certainly could lead most people to believe they have a "stated value" or "agreed value" policy. After all, you stated the value and the company agreed to insure it for that value. If you feel that you currently have an "agreed value" policy, first, please read the section of your policy typically titled "damage to your TT", then refer to "limits of liability or payment of loss". This clause will explain how damage to you TT will be settled by your policy. Typically, you'll discover it's an "actual cash value policy". If your policy is an "agreed value" policy, please let the rest of us know what company it's written with. I'd sure like to have one. Thanks!
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:11 AM   #25
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:25 PM   #26
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Many thanks to Driftwood!!! I contacted Progressive and they confirmed that they do offer an "agreed value" policy in my state. An "agreed value" policy establishes the value BEFORE the loss. An "actual cash value (ACV)" policy establishes the value AFTER the loss. "Proper Documentation" is required at the time you purchase the policy and consists of an appraisal or sales reciept. This may vary by state, so please ask plenty of questions if you call Progressive or use their website. If you purchase the "agreed value" policy and fail to provide the " proper documentation" (appraisal), the policy reverts to ACV. The "agreed value" is the most the policy will pay for any loss. So if your TT increases in value, it's important to notify the company by submitting a new appraisal and increase the "agreed value" amount. I currently have my '71 Avion endorsed on my auto policy for $8000 (which is probably too high) and the policy is ACV coverage and the premium is $114 per year. I got a quote on Progressive's website and then called and asked questions. Progressive's annual premium is $228. I like the idea of establishing the value before the loss. Now I'm searching for an appraiser near Indianapolis, Indiana.
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:43 PM   #27
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mobile home policy

I had a rather depressing day last week when I called many auto insurance companies (including some on this thread) and was told I needed a car to insure the Airstream. I had the AS insured through my homeowner's policy, but once the AS became my home and the house was sold, I lost the insurance. I still have a car but am planning to sell in order to save up for a few months and buy a tow vehicle... Happened to drive by a mobile home insurance agency and they had no problems insuring me. $10000 coverage on the 79 Excella 500 trailer and 5000 for personal property, for $120 a year. Granted, once I get a TV, I would have to switch insurance to make it road-legal, but not an issue for now. Maybe this info will save someone the hassles I had!
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinder
I had a rather depressing day last week when I called many auto insurance companies (including some on this thread) and was told I needed a car to insure the Airstream.
Glad you were able to get something. That's why many of us use Foremost or Progressive for insuring our Airstreams. No car insurance requirement is necessary.

Jack
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