Insuring an Airstream

[rodsterinfl]

Greetings,

I searched for information on insurance and did not find a thread on it but just a few various discussions.

I came to learn today that my selection of RV insurance was not any different than my auto + trailer coverage. I previously had been told that it was better to have a specialized RV policy rather than cover the trailer under an auto policy. In some ways that was true but my bigger concern was actual valuation.

When I called my RV insurer they let me know that the NADA RV value was the guideline for what I would get in a total loss situation. Add to that, anything that was a part of my RV- stove, fridge, etc., may or may not be covered depending on the situation. The only difference I found between my auto and RV policy was that the RV policy offered spelled out coverage of personal and permanent fixture coverage. I just changed my policy two months ago but I am changing to something that covers more if possible. Both use NADA or "actual cash value" methodology to derive value.

As I called around I found a few that offered "agreed value" and even "replacement value". It seems that replacement value is applicable for trailers for the first five years or so.

Agreed Value, I was told is non-depreciating as long as the policy stays in force and the value must be based upon an appraisal or a dealer sales receipt within three years of sale.

I know that for me, buying an Airstream was not done with some extra pocket change. The difference in my model between NADA value and Agreed Value based on receipts is around $20,000!

This is an important consideration as the policy premium is close to the same, yet, consider the coverage amounts. It's obvious that not all RV insurance is created equal.

What say you?

[halftimer]

I had an enclose car trailer stolen had state farm still do I set with adjuster two hours no matter what I ask his answer was we do not replacement value.ask I could put out an ad and sold it for six grand and you say its only worth four he said we do not pay replacement value we pay what we say is the valve I have two old cars 1955 -1939 I carry stated ant on them have had two claims no total loss no problem

[Wingeezer]

One thing you might want to check on your insurance is coverage for hail damage.

When I went through my broker to get insurance initially I told them it was important that I have coverage for hail damage. I felt that was important to me wit the Ast.

They got insurance with a particular company and assured me I would have such coverage.

When i received the policy a month or so later I reviewed it to confirm that I had coverage for hail damage.

According to the policy, it appeared I did - but only if the hail caused perforation !!!! Sounded like a scam to me!

Perforation of the trailer skin is not likely I would think.

I wound up having the broker switch me to a different company that gave me coverage for hail damage - without needing the skin to be perforated! I think it pretty unlikely for that to ever happen! I'm sure hail damage is expensive to fix and could reduce the value of the trailer quite a bit if you elect not to fix it.

Brian.

[ghatfield]

We have an agreed-value policy (underwritten by Allied) sold by the Overland Insurance company (they are excellent to work with!) on our 19-ft 2006 Safari Bambi SE 75th Anniversary edition.

We originally had a cash value policy when we purchased the Bambi in June of last year, but within two weeks we were able to change the endorsement to an agreed value of just under our purchase price. In order to achieve this, we did have to arrange for an appraisal by a local RV dealer who services/sells Airstreams (and was formerly an Airstream dealer). His appraisal cost just under $100, and the final result was accepted by Allied/Overland.

Here is the link to their site: RV Insurance Quote From Overland Insurance | RV Insurance | Motorhomes, Travel Trailers and 5th Wheels 480-994-9584 - or call them at: 800-677-4027

We also had an Allied agreed value policy, sold by Overland Insurance and underwritten by Allied, for our previous 2003 36-ft Foretravel motorhome, which was set at the purchase price. At the time (2009), the bill of sale was all that was required for documentation of the agreed value.

About a year ago, at policy renewal time, there was an attachment entitled "Important Policy Information: Total Loss 'Agreed Value' Coverage is Included in Your Policy." Here's what it said in its entirety:

In the event of a total loss to the RV, the Company will pay you the "agreed value" as shown on the policy declarations page (less your deductible). There will be no deduction for depreciation or other mysterious reductions in the pay out. The endorsement is, in essence, a "what you see is what you get" coverage form.

Perfect! No NADA valuations… just agreed value… as we intended, and as we expect!

We can highly recommend Overland Insurance Services (in Queen Creek, AZ - but they will write for ANY state other than Hawaii). Their business is strictly RV policies, and we have been most pleased with their service (our interactions have always been by phone and email). They have done well for us, throughout our changing circumstances… for example, we full-timed for a year in our motorhome.

A new Overland "perk" - a couple of years ago, our renewal notice included an announcement that the agency now offers highly discounted Coach-Net rates for the "Platinum Plus RV Towing and Roadside Assistance Program with RV Technical Support." One year is $89 (2 yrs, $160... more savings up to 5 yrs). We previously paid $129 for the same program (through FMCA). After we sold the motorhome, we continue to use Coach-Net for our emergency roadside service for our 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and 19-ft Bambi. Coach-Net has been most helpful, particularly when the Jeep experienced a rear blowout while towing the Bambi in Nevada on I-80 just last fall.

Hope this rambling is helpful!

Pat

[rodsterinfl]

Thanks.

I just filled out the online quote for Overland. I also have a full quote on agreed value from FCIS and will look at Blue Sky tomorrow as well. That seems to sum up the choices. FCIS pricing was close to my NADA value policy.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by ghatfield

We have an agreed-value policy (underwritten by Allied) sold by the Overland Insurance company (they are excellent to work with!) on our 19-ft 2006 Safari Bambi SE 75th Anniversary edition.

...
About a year ago, at policy renewal time, there was an attachment entitled "Important Policy Information: Total Loss 'Agreed Value' Coverage is Included in Your Policy." Here's what it said in its entirety:

In the event of a total loss to the RV, the Company will pay you the "agreed value" as shown on the policy declarations page (less your deductible). There will be no deduction for depreciation or other mysterious reductions in the pay out. The endorsement is, in essence, a "what you see is what you get" coverage form.

Perfect! No NADA valuations… just agreed value… as we intended, and as we expect!

....

Pat

Pat,

Thanks to your post, I went and read my policy, and I now think I have less coverage than I thought I did.

Does your policy spell out how they determine a total loss? My policy (from another company) reads similarly. Further, the policy explains that they will pay the agreed value in the event of a total loss. If the loss is not declared a total loss, they will pay the lower of several amounts, one of which is the actual cash value which, I am guessing, will be determined by the NADA guides.

In my only experience with an insurance totaling a vehicle, the determination went something like this:
If the cost to repair the vehicle exceeds 80% of the value of the vehicle, the vehicle will be determined to a total loss. The key here is "the value of the vehicle". Lets assume that refers to the agreed value.

So, hypothetically, lets say the trailer cost $20,000 and it is insured for an agreed value of that amount. Further, lets assume that NADA book value is $5000. It is involved in an accident and the cost to repair it is $10,000. As I read my policy, it seems likely that they will pay $5000 minus my deductible.

How do you read yours in the event of a non-total loss?


Thanks,

Al

[rodsterinfl]

Yes, this is an important issue. The NADA value is not good- way off. Ok, who offers agreed policies for those of us with units five years and older? My current policy is with Integon or Good SAM also known as national general and they use NADA.

I have, offering agreed policies:

Allied (fcis)
Overland
Blue Sky

[rodsterinfl]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

Yes, this is an important issue. The NADA value is not good- way off. Ok, who offers agreed policies for those of us with units five years and older? My current policy is with Integon or Good SAM also known as national general and they use NADA.

I have, offering agreed policies:

Allied (fcis)
Overland
Blue Sky

Just got off the phone with blue sky- agreed value only on bus conversions and replace value if policy opened in first year of model up to 10 years all other policies are actual cash value depreciated at NADA

[TinShack]

I have an agreed value policy in California that is offered through Progressive. Not sure if they offer it in your state, but you may want to check with them.

[rodsterinfl]

Just got off the phone with Overland and was told the agreed policy has to be initiated within fist two years of ownership or an appraisal is necessary to get such a policy.

[Air Apparent]

My Airstream was being covered as part of my auto policy for a very low premium. I had the same concern about it being totaled and not covering my remaining loan on the Airstream.

I contacted the Good Sam Insurance agency and they could provide an agreed value policy. I also contacted the Miller Insurance Agency that specializes in RV insurance and covers many fulltimers. See Miller Insurance Agency I got a policy for an agreed value that did not require an appraisal. The premium was also lower than the quote from Good Sam.

However, the new premium is higher than the premium I had with my auto policy. If I didn't have the loan I may have stayed with my auto policy.

[ghatfield]

Steve,

When we first purchased our Foretravel motorhome in 2009, we were living in New Mexico and had an agreed value policy with Progressive (purchased through Overland). When we sold the NM home and began full-timing in our motorhome, Texas became our permanent address (domicile), and Overland re-wrote our agreed value policy with Allied, as Progressive did not offer an agreed value policy in the state of Texas. We have since moved to WA state (and winter in AZ)…. Overland stated that since we are in AZ for seven months of the year (regardless of the fact that our permanent address is our home in WA), the agreed value policy must reside in AZ (since that is where the majority of the "risk" is located) - and Allied provided the best coverage/lowest premium for an agreed value policy.

Al,

I just checked our Allied policy, and here is the language for "total loss" agreed value endorsement:

"TOTAL LOSS" means: (a) the theft of your recreational vehicle if it is not recovered within 30 days; or (b) any other covered loss to your recreational vehicle where the cost to repair the damage is greater than what the actual cash value of your recreational vehicle was at the time of the loss.

Then, in the policy language, "actual cash value" is defined as:

"ACTUAL CASH VALUE" means the amount it would cost to replace the damaged or stolen property with property of similar make, model, and comparable equipment. To determine the actual cash value, we consider the fair market value, the age and condition of the property at the time of the loss, and the applicable state regulations and statues.

In email discussions with the Overland representative about changing from the initial actual value policy to an agreed value, she first explained that the appraisal could not be from the dealer who sold us the Airstream (of course!), and that they had done a little "research" also… and she gave me a link to a similar model/year unit that was for sale locally. Of course, she said, they don't know the final selling price for that particular listing, but it showed how they were attempting to understand the value of our AS. It was interesting that she did not bring up NADA during these conversations, nor do I find any SPECIFIC mention of NADA in the policy language itself.

FWIW,

Pat

[rodsterinfl]

Still going on the insurance saga. I am learning a lot. I have three Progressive policies so I called them as per your tip. They will not do the agreed as I have owned it more than two years but he said I could get a appraisal then apply. He also said that their agreed policies are limited to a 10 year span. I have started drilling questions as there are so many details. So far Overland will insure but only with a appraisal and FCIS will based on the bill of sale within 3 years.

I am sharing this info not to sell insurance but as important info. fYI my current policy is from Good Sams. I was talked into it as being better than my coverage under my truck policy. He told me that an rv policy covered things like damage to interior items if for example in a wreck where both external damage and perhaps he stove was damaged where an auto policy is often only exterior damage. Quote. So, when I finally got the new policy it said National General Auto Policy right at the top but it did have spelled out interior coverage as attached items. Regardless though a total loss which to them is 80% of around 12k NADA is ridiculous. That means if there were a wreck and damage was 9000 or so. I would be expected to settle for perhaps 12k after deductibles and forfeit title or not make a claim. I know it's not new but I have around 40k in it in three years time. Go try and buy an all updated customized 06 25 foot for 12k- see the issue we face?

[rodsterinfl]

The NADA value seems to be based loosely on all travel trailers and favor motor homes. I say this as it shows a 30 foot Bounder to be worth around 10k at 30 years of age. Anyone knows that the original engine would be in need of help or even rebuilt let alone the coach. Yet a 30 year AS is worth 3k.

The average airstream 25fb Safari SE/ Flying Cloud goes something like this:

Purchase year 18% off off 70,275 or 58k
2nd year 12% loss
5th year 43% loss
7th year 62% loss
10th year 79% loss

Some may agree with these figures but it is quite different than the market indicates and causes issue with value when insuring.

[rodsterinfl]

Reading some of the posts, I note that others find the vagueness in this topic as well. Blue book I was told is no more and NADA is the only published valuation and it is what I have confirmed Progressive and national General uses. It is not stated in policies but rather stated as established value or some such.

You need to check your policy on the wording "what it would cost to replace" that is replacement value policy good for only up to five model years. Actual cash value is NOT replacement but simply what their referenced source says the market value is at the time of loss. Big difference. Actual cash value policies depreciate each month as does the value. Agreed value policies do not depreciate.

[Foiled Again]

First - go with the cheapest premium - and you'll get the royal runaround. They keep it cheap by underpaying, and dragging payments out.

Check the reputations with your state corporation commission, or with others who've been unlucky enough to NEED coverage.

Last - if your Airstream is totaled or stolen - simply SHOW them comparable units for sale (Right here on Airforums for starters) - and challenge them to negotiate and buy you an exact replacement unit - same year - trim level - options. A reputable dealer which sells lots of Airstreams can also tell the insurance companies what they'd pay or allow in trade to buy your Airstream and what their best price when selling would be. Depreciation does suck, but a lot less if you use comparables. (of course none of this applies to vintage restored units - for that write a letter to Jay Leno)

My negotiations went pretty smoothly - they started by mentioning NADA and I responded with "here's one for sale on Airforms that's just like mine except the color of the upholstery is different" - buy it for me at that price. Fortunately there were several 25 FB's for sale at the time... all of them higher priced than what was offered to me. The insurance company cut me a substantially higher check than was first offered. I was perfectly pleasant and it took about 3 minutest to get the whole thing resolved.

Paula

[rodsterinfl]

What your experience went like Paula sounds great. What I am being told from my carrier when I mentioned current prices was that those prices cannot be used as it was asking price not value price and that is why they used NADA. This was two days ago with two different reps from National General. I got the same rhetoric from Met life and Progressive on actual cash value policies. I am really drilling them on scenarios and coverages and what is in writing.

[rodsterinfl]

Ok now I am finished. I ended up with an agreed policy with FCIS through Nationwide. I will say that everyone should check their insurance. A few questions to ask are, how will value be determined if a total loss and what is the math involved in determining repair- what is the ceiling before totaling? In the previous policy I learned that I would've gotten around 11k of totaled and repair would only be considered if less than 80% of value. None of us want big premiums but we also do not want to walk away with nothing or very little if damaged. By the way the premium was about $20 more.

[KWN306]

I just saved $235.00 by switching to Blue Sky, had been with Good Sams on a 2015 23B. Better coverage as well.

[graysailor]

Pretty happy with Geico with multi account discount. Most of us I think keep our head in the sand when it comes to insurance. We must try and remember that insurance companies only goal is to collect premiums and avoid paying claims.