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Old 01-20-2010, 07:30 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Jim & Susan View Post
I'm no Ebay genius (never bid on anything there), but isn't there normally a way to post questions about the item in the open, so that others can read the questions/comments? Maybe one of us should call the dealer and tell them "we're on to them". Yeah, right. And the Easter bunny will attack them if'n they ain't honest.

I hope the buyer really is beware here. Caveat emptore Airstreamus.

Jim
The problem is.. as much as the airforums members would like to it to be so, they are doing NOTHING illegal. If you post up "questions" that are designed to disrupt their legal auction, you are opening YOURSELF up to legal action, for disrupting a lawful transaction. I think you could try to ask pointed questions about the areas damaged or something, but I would be very careful. I believe eBay has a pretty strong record of pursuing people who interfear with it's profit strea.. er... customers transactions.

Is it wrong or immoral for them to sell them with minimum disclosure, and for what we on airforums consider outrageous amounts? probably. but it's not illegal for someone to pay to much for junk, as long as they have the free right not to buy it to. but the seller has the right to ask as much as they want.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:10 AM   #226
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The flooded Airstream dealer has just reopened for business. The TV news had some pictures of the Airstreams during the flood. The water was about halfway up the sides. The employees had to cut through a fence to the interstate highway to get out that day.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:54 AM   #227
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Although Ebay emailed me and says that they are investigating the matter, I doubt anything will be done. I guess ethics in American business is dead.

Here is the response I received from the Utah RV place that is selling the "lightly watered" Airstreams:

You know we had 10 total trailers out of this deal. They are all gone but one. I have been so tickled with the sales of the trailers I wish I had another 100. The people buying them have been happier. I am so tickled the stir you are making on the web discussion forum. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THEM!!! You have helped me so much the more you talk the better my response. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! Oh by the way feel free to call. I would love to thank you in person. You know what they say in Hollywood their is no such thing as bad publicity.



Thanks, Darren 801-392-2400


I guess he's tickled. Too bad he can't spell to save his life.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:16 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Dakota's Dad View Post
Is it wrong or immoral for them to sell them with minimum disclosure, and for what we on airforums consider outrageous amounts? probably. but it's not illegal for someone to pay to much for junk, as long as they have the free right not to buy it to. but the seller has the right to ask as much as they want.
I am not a lawyer (nor do I play on on TV), but I would be very surprised if a decent lawyer couldn't make a very good case against someone for non-disclosure of pertinent facts in a sale, or giving false information regarding the condition of an item, especially when it can easily be proven that the seller had such information.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:50 PM   #229
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BTW, this utah rv seller has no more airstreams listed in ebay. maybe ebay removed?
stingray, you shouldlist his official biz name, address, and www address in your quote so anyone who does a search for him will find this post and know what he is really like.

i just read every page of this thread and i am amazed that there are such scum on earth. i hate to say it, but its people like this idiot (darren), pharma companies, and wall street that makes me believe that our government does have a duty to regulate certain areas of our lives.

If we were all responsible, moderately educated, and had decent moral GPS (get it? instead of compass? hehe) maybe we wouldnt need such things.

In the end, karma will get him. we'll just help karma along

EDIT: the AS on his site is listed as water damaged for $41k+ : http://www.boxvansnow.com/details.ht...-31l1257467242 VIN#1STTFYL239J523951
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:44 PM   #230
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Like I said, the pic with the owners and the blown-out sheetrock should have been the tip-off.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:59 PM   #231
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Quote:
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CrawfordGene & Stefrobrts get the realistic posting award IMO. There's a good reason they totaled these trailers -- the same reason Sully Sullenberger's US Airways plane went the same salvage route.
For sale! Damaged plane that hero pilot Sully landed in Hudson could be yours in online auction

look! sully's plane is up for auction. Now's your chance to own an airbus with light water damage...

a few sponges and mops and you'll be ready to fly!
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:59 PM   #232
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I just saw the article about the airplane, and this thread was the first thing I thought of
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:52 PM   #233
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I just saw the article about the airplane, and this thread was the first thing I thought of
Well done, Stef.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:02 PM   #234
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I am not a lawyer (nor do I play on on TV),
No doubt though Aage you have stayed at several Holiday Inn Express's.
You are very wise!

Joe
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:16 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Aage View Post
I am not a lawyer (nor do I play on on TV), but I would be very surprised if a decent lawyer couldn't make a very good case against someone for non-disclosure of pertinent facts in a sale, or giving false information regarding the condition of an item, especially when it can easily be proven that the seller had such information.
Depending what the seller represented to the buyer, the language on the sale contract, state law where the transaction took place, there may be a claim for misrepresentation or promissory estoppel. Fraud is very hard to prove, so the other claims are usually more productive and lead to the same result.

The theory of nondisclosure of a material fact or giving false information is really the same—either way the seller is misrepresenting the object of the sale. However, only in recent decades have courts recognized that the non-act of nondisclosure is no different than the act of lying. Thus a non-act is an act because a duty has been recognized to disclose material defects. In this case it appears the fact is about the extent and nature of the flood and it's affect on the use of the product for the purpose intended.

State (or provincial) law may turn on how that law deals with the parol evidence rule—when a salesman tells you the trailer is made of platinum, not aluminum, and the dealer will give you a lifetime warranty, and then you sign a contract that says nothing of the sort, but says that all agreements between the parties are contained in the contract, whatever the salesman said before (parol evidence refers to an oral statement made before signing the contract) about the agreement has no legal effect—but (there's always a but) the warranty is always going to be part of the written agreement, but whether the trailer is aluminum or platinum would raise some interesting questions about (1) promissory estoppel, and (2) how dumb the buyer is. I can hear a judge saying—"you thought the trailer was made of platinum for that price?" This is a simplification of the whole thing because it's about the inducement—what you are told to induce you to sign the contract. The inducement may trump the parol evidence rule. Many states have a Consumer Protection Act which may be helpful for added claims. Promissory estoppel is a phrase which makes clients think lawyers are smart, but means, again basically, you acted in reliance of promises made by the seller and it turned out badly for you.

I've never stayed in a Holiday Inn Express and I've been retired for so long these are possibly the ravings of a senile old man. Aage has said it a lot simpler which makes him smart but not necessarily Queen's Counsel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Counsel.)

Gene
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:12 PM   #236
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And among lawyers, a QC is known as a "silk", due to his extra-special robes.

Gene, could not the ad that says, "light water damage" be construed as clear misrepresentation of facts known to the seller?

In other words, the seller would certainly know that there had been three feet of water in those trailers, and since he or she is in the business of selling them, one could reasonably assume that the seller would then know that the insulation and other items in the walls were carrying noxious and dangerous material, no?

One could then say that dem fargeen basteeches are folking ice holes if they think that they can get away with this carp.

IMHO only, of course. Your mileage may vary, offer not valid in all states.
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:54 AM   #237
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"The people buying them have been happier "
Your right!
What a nice thing to say about your recent sales!
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:18 AM   #238
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Gene, could not the ad that says, "light water damage" be construed as clear misrepresentation of facts known to the seller?

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Aage, certainly that would be a central question of fact. There is law that advertising is assumed to have a certain amount of "puff" in it and one should always take it with a grain of salt. That parallels the idea of caveat emptor. But statutory changes in the law have eroded and hopefully repealed those older policies, but a specific court in a specific place can always surprise you. It never is quite as simple as it looks.

The Forum member who bought one of those trailers seems to have been quite aware of the damage they suffered and would have no claim therefore. If you have notice of the true facts, a lying salesman is of no consequence.

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