I guess the only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is to remember that the US tax dollars and loans built back up the Japanese industries from the ground up after WWII. As a result those factories were state of the art for at least a couple of decades, while our own factories had to catch up on their own AND comply with EPA regulations. The Chinese and Koreans likewise are able to invest in advanced car design to a greater percentage than the US because they pay their labor poorly (in comparison) and ignore the damage they are doing to the environment. It's difficult for US based companies to compete because we've made the playing field unlevel in so many ways.
I guess the only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is to remember that the US tax dollars and loans built back up the Japanese industries from the ground up after WWII. As a result those factories were state of the art for at least a couple of decades, while our own factories had to catch up on their own AND comply with EPA regulations. The Chinese and Koreans likewise are able to invest in advanced car design to a greater percentage than the US because they pay their labor poorly (in comparison) and ignore the damage they are doing to the environment. It's difficult for US based companies to compete because we've made the playing field unlevel in so many ways.
I would agree with this, It sucks,, But if we go back a fix every mistake we made our taxes would be 80% look what we did to the Japanese that lived here during WWII and the Native Americans before that.... The Mexicans etc...
As my daughter says.. "YOU GET WHAT YOU GET AND YOU DON"T THROW A FIT"
They need to work with what they have...
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Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
Hi, close the doors and start over again. We did it to ourselves. Maybe we should have DeLorean or Tucker make U.S. cars. Kill the unions that are killing us. Why does the competition do better than us? Because they can send you home or fire you if you don't produce a good day's work with real quality. I don't feel sorry for the people who punched the UAW time clocks and made big bucks and hugh benifits for doing a sloppy job during the 30 minutes of actual work done in an eight hour day. I had a friend who was employed at an aircraft factory making twice the money per hour as I did and had benifits, in-which I had none; But when he come home from work and I asked him "what did you do today?" and his answer was, "I put (6) rivets in a wing." He told me, "with perfection, that was only about 30 minutes work"; And yet he got called in for overtime too because the production line was behind. [now he was making triple the amount I made for an honest living.] Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for a lot of those people and they know who they are. [the slackers, not the good workers]
Hi, I'm not rich and have to make do with what I have, so I shop at Costco, Target, and Wal-Mart. I'm not paying more than I have to if possible. Go to Nordstrom's or Macy's and look at that $300.00 sweater or that $500.00 cotton dress, and yes, it too is made in China. For that kind of money, I expect it to be made in Italy, Germany, or even U.S.A.
In my life time I have owned close to / or more than (50) cars or trucks and out of those only four were foreign. Ford Courier, [mine] Toyota Corolla, [wife's] Opel Izuzu, [wife's] and BMW X3. [wife's] And except for one Chevrolet truck and one Plymouth, all the rest were Fords, Lincoln, and Mercury's.
Hi, close the doors and start over again. We did it to ourselves. Maybe we should have DeLorean or Tucker make U.S. cars. Kill the unions that are killing us. Why does the competition do better than us? Because they can send you home or fire you if you don't produce a good day's work with real quality. I don't feel sorry for the people who punched the UAW time clocks and made big bucks and hugh benifits for doing a sloppy job during the 30 minutes of actual work done in an eight hour day. I had a friend who was employed at an aircraft factory making twice the money per hour as I did and had benifits, in-which I had none; But when he come home from work and I asked him "what did you do today?" and his answer was, "I put (6) rivets in a wing." He told me, "with perfection, that was only about 30 minutes work"; And yet he got called in for overtime too because the production line was behind. [now he was making triple the amount I made for an honest living.] Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for a lot of those people and they know who they are. [the slackers, not the good workers]
I think you just hit this on the head.....
the Unions help out the workers at the turn of the century but now they just cause trouble..... Your right, they can't get fired... It like tenier for a college professor... Ridiculous...
I had a friend who work at Medigold dairy... If a job needed to be done the boss couldn't do it... He had to ask the employee's first, Even something like sweeping the floor... RIDICULOUS...
And you Union people Sorry but this is the truth.... What do you get for your dues.... You stike while the Union bosses sit in there big houses doing nothing... Think about all the money they have collected..
WHERE has it gone?????
The union employee's didn't see any of it...
__________________
Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
GREED ,Both the unions and the companies are plum weak north of there ear's to have let there members and employees over the last 60 years put out poorer and poorer quality cars, that is what has GM,Ford and Chryseler where they are.They both should have rememberd "never corner something meaner than you"and that was the American public that turned on them and stop buying there JUNK. Like I have said before if they can't cowboy up and pull them self up by their boot straps let both the unions and the companies lie there and bleed. I do not want my tax $$$$ wasted on them.
According to the report, the government is not giving GM the cash to buy Chrysler, it doesn't say anything about saving the company (or not) if it starts a death spiral.
Didn't say it did....just posted it to show that the gov is not funding the buyout, but my additional comments are that if GM needed money to survive, you better believe the gov will be there for them.....Ford too...
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Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
One day we'll all drive Toyotas, We'll buy them at Wal-Mart and when we go back for service and no one there speaks English we'll all wonder what in the h*** happened.
I'm not knocking their product and I don't care where they are made. Everytime you buy a Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc. you're putting another nail in the coffin. I don't care if its poor quality or if it costs too much - if you don't buy American and if you don't buy locally you are the problem. Suffer a little. It didn't hurt your Dad and it didn't hurt his.
Roger
Here is one of the problems, Americans willing to buy poor quality stuff. We ALL should stand up to a person,company or countery that make junk and not buy it.If it does not sell because of poor quality it will be improved or the maker will go out of business. Will anyone here accept POOR QUALITY maintenance on an airlines aircraft that your riding on?Or poor quality from a surgeon that is going to operate on you?
So why accept it from the big 3 auto makers?
purman, you haven't owned a GM product snce your '01 Blazer, but yet you call eveything they make junk?
Even if it is, how do you propose these domestic manufacturers fix themselves? The cash these companies have will barely cover their operating costs for the next year. How are they expected to launch new product, improve quality, develop alternative fuel systems etc. without some help?
Roger
They can fix themself with the helping hand that is on the end of there arms.Not with tax payers $$$.I dont see the unions leaders out leading a charge up the hill with there members to help save these companies that they get a pay check from. What makes anyone think the new product will have improved quality when the manufactures have the same plum weak north of the ears CEOs and union leaders with only GREED on there mind, that should be leading the labor force putting the NEW cars togeather to do a better quality job? "Ya can tell a real winner by the way he plays a losin hand"
: Will anyone here accept POOR QUALITY maintenance on an airlines aircraft that your riding on?Or poor quality from a surgeon that is going to operate on you?
So why accept it from the big 3 auto makers?
What do you mean????? We already do.....
__________________
Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
I am sure these numbers are accurate if not actually low. However these numbers still do not represent, nor are they close to a probable 1 in 6 lost manufacturing jobs should GM or the big three go bankrupt, thus making a strong case for the government to loan out funds to avoid a larger loss and/or a national security issue.
BTW, great info Toastie...
Much like the Michigan congressional delegation, which sent its own letter to Paulson and Bernanke last week, the governors said Detroit's Big Three are too big to fail. The auto industry employs millions of Americans and it is one of the largest buyers of steel, aluminum, iron, copper, plastics, rubber and electronics. And a large network of suppliers, vendors and dealers rely on the economic stability of Motor City, they said.
The price of aluminum will go thru the ruff if there is a auto chapter 11, Airtream chapter 11??? my guess is yes............
Remember if all the big 3 fail it will make no differance to anything. There will be someone there to pick up the remains.Americans want X number of cars each year, never mind if they need them or not and some one is going to make them if the big 3 fail, be it Honda Toyota or someone from India,china,Korea,Taiwan or even maybe a new and better American company. Like I have said before the big 3 have brought it on themselfs with CEO and the Unions letting cars of POOR QUALITY on to the market. I do not understand why the unions are not doing anything to save their jobs by helping the companies that give them a pay check. I DO NOT want to see my tax $$$ spent on A-- HOLE unions and CEOs,let the big 3 die if they cant save themself.
GM is a pension and health care fund pretending to be a for profit company and they still aren't giving us the products they make for the rest of the world. They and their workers are not competitive. Their executives ect drive around in big Burbs and Caddies on the company. They just don't get it. You would be saving a business model that is broken. They can do a pre-structured bankruptcy and save themselves.
Quick Links
Hi, close the doors and start over again. We did it to ourselves. Maybe we should have DeLorean or Tucker make U.S. cars. Kill the unions that are killing us. Why does the competition do better than us? Because they can send you home or fire you if you don't produce a good day's work with real quality. I don't feel sorry for the people who punched the UAW time clocks and made big bucks and hugh benifits for doing a sloppy job during the 30 minutes of actual work done in an eight hour day. I had a friend who was employed at an aircraft factory making twice the money per hour as I did and had benifits, in-which I had none; But when he come home from work and I asked him "what did you do today?" and his answer was, "I put (6) rivets in a wing." He told me, "with perfection, that was only about 30 minutes work"; And yet he got called in for overtime too because the production line was behind. [now he was making triple the amount I made for an honest living.] Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for a lot of those people and they know who they are. [the slackers, not the good workers]
Posting 87 ,88and 89 are right on .
GREED ,Both the unions and the companies are plum weak north of there ear's to have let there members and employees over the last 60 years put out poorer and poorer quality cars, that is what has GM,Ford and Chryseler where they are.They both should have rememberd "never corner something meaner than you"and that was the American public that turned on them and stop buying there JUNK.
Like I have said before if they can't cowboy up and pull them self up by their boot straps let both the unions and the companies lie there and bleed.
I do not want my tax $$$$ wasted on them.
THE FEW,THE PROUD,THE SQUARESTREAMER'S
FREE MEN DO NOT ASK PERMISSION TO BEAR ARMS,
AMERICA.LOVE HER OR SADDLE UP AND RIDE ON OUT.
CHARTER MEMBER 4CU
Here is one of the problems, Americans willing to buy poor quality stuff.
We ALL should stand up to a person,company or countery that make junk and not buy it.If it does not sell because of poor quality it will be improved or the maker will go out of business.
They can fix themself with the helping hand that is on the end of there arms.Not with tax payers $$$.I dont see the unions leaders out leading a charge up the hill with there members to help save these companies that they get a pay check from.
"Ya can tell a real winner by the way he plays a losin hand"
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