Ok, I agree with you that there will be lots of jobs lost... But maybe it would be better in a Japanese company (who have benefitted for years from low cost credit sponsored by their central banks. The Chinese have benefited and still do from a controlled currency) bought them... They seem to be doing fine... And why does GM want to buy Chrysler back for ... It's losing money left and right.. So is GM, and Ford they wouldn't need the loans if they weren't..it is about economies of scale and eliminating reduncies, both GM and Chrysler are each spending billions to develop advanced propulsion systems (hybrids, fuel cells, etc) and if they merge they only need one group of people doing it, and the same would go for numerous central office staff positions.
They want 15 Billion Doallars not Million but Billion...
Let a foreign company buy them up, There losing money anyway.. It's not like the money is staying here if there not making any... all the money is staying here that is paid to employees, retirees, suppliers, and dealerships. And to the medical community for the million plus people that the big 3 provide Healthcare.
Plus GM and the other 3 just caught up with the better built cars and trucks others make..... I had a mid 80's chevy that didn't even compare to the quality of my '79 honda accord...okay, you had a bad GM vhicle 20+ years ago. GM ranks at the top of most of the current JD Power long term ownership studies. The big three have as many quality award winners as any manufacturer. Which automaker had the most recalled vehicles in 2007? Toyota!
If they can't build stuff people want to buy let someone else buy them and straighten it all out....(GM, Ford, and Chysler all produce vehicles that people are buying, but with the slow down, not enough to cover expenses The big three and other companies built the American middle class. One by one they are dying off as legacy costs (retiree pensions/healthcare and employee healthcare) make them uncompetive against new competition that has no legacy costs. How does it happen? Our free market economy, the ONLY free market economy in the world allows foreign owned companies to build here or import products at less cost and underprice American sourced products. This ends up driving American owned companies out of business. The Government only needs to steep in to keep more of the profits here.. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, all of them export ALL of their untaxed profit to their country of origin, and our Government should raise their taxes to keep most or all of that money in our country.
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Frankly, I am glad to hear that you ( or anyone for that matter ) are qualifying for any commercial real estate loans... good for you. It's hard out there.
Instead of giving GM 15b they should give a million people 15k to go buy a new car with - then at least I'd be getting something for my tax money - we'd all be happy
Have you heard about this one.... GM is going to the government wanting a bail out because they are losing a ton of money...
Is the government gonna bail my business out if I get in trouble... NO...
What is going on??.... GM is a private business and should work like the rest of us...
Whats next... All the trialer companies going and asking for bail outs because they aren't selling trailers...
AS may be next.....
Man, I can't believe some of the crap going on these days.... They flooded the market and then want a bail out because they aren't selling cars and trucks anymore...
Go figure.. When you flood the market, the flood will recede, but they don't look to the future... just at the short term profit...
GM, Ford, Chrysler support 1 of 6 jobs in this country, if one file's they all file.
If GM, Ford, Chrysler file for bankruptcy would cause a National security problem, between the 3 companys they buy more steel in this country than all car import companys combine.
This is an area where you can say the costs of prevention are less than the costs of a cleanup," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, which receives support from the industry. Cole estimated that up to 2 million U.S. workers will see their jobs threatened in the event of a bankruptcy by GM or rival Ford Motor Co (F.N) as the knock-on effect topples suppliers and other related companies.
If GM, Ford, Chrysler file for bankruptcy would cause a National security problem, between the 3 companys they buy more steel in this country than all car import companys combine.
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Yep I agree, They bought more than they needed. typical mistake.. They wanted to make more money and got greedy like the rest of this country...
Look if they screwed it up, whats makes you think it will be better the next time around????
I'm trying to think long term here not short.... what's gonna happen in 15 years when they come back wanting more money because Toyota and Honda are selling more cars and trucks than the big three...?? it could happen..... Toyota is #2 now..
Go to the rest of the world.... American cars are considered junk.. Well not junk but when you want quilty you don't buy American... This may not be true anymore but the persona is still there.....
I have two Toyota's because my last two Chevy's gave me nothing but trouble...one a 2001 and one a 1995. I also have a Jaguar that gives me lots of trouble( but is was given to me for free)and a 1990 Jeep Cherokee that gives me no trouble..
They need more than a bail out they need a makeover, and if they aren't gonna do it... I say let someone else....
__________________
Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.
Yep I agree, They bought more than they needed. typical mistake.. They wanted to make more money and got greedy like the rest of this country...
I'm trying to think long term here not short.... what's gonna happen in 15 years when they come back wanting more money because Toyota and Honda are selling more cars and trucks than the big three...?? it could happen..... Toyota is #2 now..
The new world car players 15 years from now will be India and China, not Japan...........
Last edited by azflycaster; 10-27-2008 at 08:15 PM.
Reason: fixed quotes
Why dont I hear of Honda or Toyota asking for a hand out.They both make cars in the U.S.A? Could it be because they make better cars and trucks than the BIG 3 and that's what Americans want to buy.Thus they are making $$$. This from a Ford and GMC owner.
There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.
Ok I can live with this explanation...
But it doesn't mean I have to like it...
__________________
Jason
May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..
Ok, let's gaze into a crystal ball and see what a possible future could be.....
Ford fails, followed by GM. Chrysler is a non-issue since they are practically done.
So, Ford fails, bits an pieces get sold/liquidated, tens of thousands of jobs if not more are lost. GM fails, tens of thousand more jobs lost, and the old saying goes if the economy gets a cold the auto industry has pneumonia. But hey, let's say a Chinese company buys up the cheap stock of GM or specifically Ford to save the from ruin, now you have a foreign owned bellweather. The gov would have little way of saying no if it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs........
In this economy with a cold, the automakers have double pneumonia.
If we don't bail out Ford and GM and consolidate now, we stand to loose a real sizable chunk of what is left of manufacturing sector, let alone the last stand of American made, or owned automakers. We're not talking a Subway chain going down, we're talking a major employer in the United States.
Should Boeing, GE or any of the other bellweathers need it, you better believe Uncle Sam is going to stop them from total failure and/or foreign control.
Is it fair compared to the small to medium sized business where the workers and the owners spend 16 hour days? Not at all, but the impact from a small to medium size business loss is (sorry to say) peanuts compared to a fortune 25 company going down the drain, regardless of who's fault it is.
Thing is, if the gov does this right, they can make money on it just like they did way back when with Chrysler. If it means the gov owns stakes in these companies, so be it. Not that I'm a socialist, but perhaps with all the greed going around it's time to roll in some socialist methods. Clearly the honor system hadn't done well by us so far......
Very good, if GM, Ford, Chrysler file chapter 11 the goverment would have to pick up billions in pension. Remenber, only American's will hurt, GM is doing great outside of America, they have greater market share in China and India than Toyato and Honda combined.
There is a reason for the government to bail out the auto industry, and it is national security.
Suppose we get into a war. A war many of our allies consider ill-advised at best. Suppose we need a lot of equipment to fight this war. This equipment was formerly supplied by one or more of the companies controlled by one of the bankrupt-and-dismantled auto makers.
Now suppose this equipment is now supplied by a company that is based in a foreign country that doesn't approve of our war, and that country decides to halt the export of that equipment to us. Now suppose we decide to go to war with that country as well as the original one. Then that county's allies go to war with us. A war we cannot win because we can't fight it without the equipment that one or more of the countries above refuses to supply us with.
Before you say it can't happen, think about what is going on in the world right now, what we are doing, and how many people don't agree with our country's actions at this point.
Maybe the Government in case of a big war could use or take over the Honda and Toyota plants here in the U.S. and get a better product for less $$$.Kind of like U.S auto buyers do now. Right now I do not think we could get a BIG army in this day and age to fight the big one.But maybe we could ship that job overseas to Israel.
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... It's losing money left and right.. So is GM, and Ford they wouldn't need the loans if they weren't..it is about economies of scale and eliminating reduncies, both GM and Chrysler are each spending billions to develop advanced propulsion systems (hybrids, fuel cells, etc) and if they merge they only need one group of people doing it, and the same would go for numerous central office staff positions.
Why dont I hear of Honda or Toyota asking for a hand out.They both make cars in the U.S.A?
Could it be because they make better cars and trucks than the BIG 3 and that's what Americans want to buy.Thus they are making $$$.
This from a Ford and GMC owner.
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Maybe the Government in case of a big war could use or take over the Honda and Toyota plants here in the U.S. and get a better product for less $$$.Kind of like U.S auto buyers do now.
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