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Old 03-05-2008, 05:51 PM   #1
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1998 25' Safari
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Which Stream?

I can either get, for the same amount of money, a 1976 Tradewind or a 1998 25' Safari. Which would you get? The TW is in awesome condition, with just about everything being original. There is one soft spot on the floor, so there could be some rust underneath. The Safari has had some mods done to the inside. It is a lot newer and probably would be more feasible for long trips. What do you think?

Danny
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:18 PM   #2
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I wonder what normal expected price of a 98 safari is? It must be wrecked or something........
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:20 PM   #3
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well, it may have been wrecked. not sure though. it does have a decent dent in the skin . the main reason for it being cheap is that i know the guy.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:23 PM   #4
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unless u post a lot more details about each trailer (INCLUDING THE PRICE) to evaluate...

who knows?

based on the only info provided, the tw is WAY over priced or the safari WAY under priced...

pictures, details and condition and upgrades and so on...

then there are the totally subjective issues of really old vs slightly old, shinny vs not, modern vs retro...

and HOW the unit will be used.

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:03 PM   #5
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Pre-owned, most important considerations

Number one thing is a realistic view of YOU...

Do you finish projects or have 2 dozen half done ones lying around now?

Do you want to restore and camp or GO camping?

If you're not committed and talented enough to restore and don't know what evils may lurk, then PAY a certified RV technician or get a forum volunteer to do a thorough evaluation of how road-ready a prospective purchase is.

What can you REALLY afford? Do you need to consult with family or are you on your own? What will you need to give up to afford this hobby... expensive jewelry or FOOD? I never had kids... and I'm comfortable financially. It makes a huge difference. Should you really consider an Airstream if your kids don't have college funds set up?
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:09 PM   #6
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I'd get the '98 and see how you do with that. When you want the bigger vintage project you should be sure of what you are in for and why you want the one you have chosen.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:21 PM   #7
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Get the new one. Unless you are some kind of uber-craftsman with more time on your hand than things to do, that soggy floor is going to eat you alive to get fixed and you will want to get it fixed.

1998 everything is going to mostly work. I have been jacking around with old iron in cars for years and it is always one thing after another no matter how much time and money you have already spent. There is no justice when it comes to RVing, you just have to enjoy it and the cost is part of it. Hmm, maybe that last part is an argument for just do what you like if you got the cabbage.

Typical is about 100$/hour I have had much work done at the local AS dealership and have NEVER had them do anything for me that did not end up costing me less than a grand. It is like their LSB or something on the bill. I see you got one post, just thought you ought to know that the most important thing is that skin. Any little ding, dent, whatever, if you want it fixed it is about a grand a panel (for the small ones).
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #8
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I see your avatar and profile says 1976 TradeWind. Did you make up your mind and go with the TW? How bad is the floor? Everything working and axle not needing to be replaced? As you can probably tee, I like the vintage and if the price on the newer unit is the same as the TW, I'd question the newer one's hidden condition. What were the mods on the newer unit? Are they functional and done where they match the original remaining interior?

Post some pix.

Brad
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:07 PM   #9
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Sorry folks, left ya'll hangin' a little. flyfshr, you're correct. I already have the Tradewind.

1976 Tradewind

I bought it a few weeks ago for $6000. The interior is in really, really good original condition, just old. Everything works! I just need to figure out all of the LP system and make sure that's safe. It also came with a weight distribution system. There are front and rear stabilizers with an electric jack. It has the front wrap around windows and vista view windows. In addition there are 3 zipdee awnings. The bearings were just repacked, new shocks, brakes done. It has one soft spot by the front door with a few small rust areas on the underbelly. The tires look to be in great condition and I've already camped in it twice. The main thing to me was that it was clean and everything works. I don't need to put a lot of time/money into it, that I know of. Reading this forum and learning about the rusty frame stuff really gets to me. I guess ignorance can be bliss. And, the battery doesn't hold a charge.

'98 Safari

It seems like a good deal. The '98 is $4000. It's a 6sleeper and has mostly been parked. The front dinette was removed and in it's place a desk was inserted. Instead of the original front couch, a different futon-like thing was mounted. The rear matress needs replacing. It has wood or pergo flooring. There is a stove and I believe just a microwave, no oven. I haven't seen the damage to the panel yet, but that could be a huge sticking point for me. I can't tell what type, if any stabilizers are present. It has a manual jack. No wrap around windows and only 1 awning. It's also missing the bathroom door.

Okay, so my main concerns are the frame of the Tradewind. I don't want to take my family on a long trip and just have it quit on me. Worse yet, I don't want it to quit on me while I'm driving and get hurt. The difference in price is quite attractive and could be put toward the new one. To answer Foiled Again's question, I don't have time to do a ton of projects. With a wife, a 2 year old, another on the way, and a big dog that needs walking, I simply can't make it a priority. I love vintage things. I like history. I will send some pics when I get home. Thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:50 PM   #10
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Nobody? Nothing else?
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyo
Sorry folks, left ya'll hangin' a little. flyfshr, you're correct. I already have the Tradewind.


'98 Safari

It seems like a good deal. The '98 is $4000. It's a 6sleeper and has mostly been parked. The front dinette was removed and in it's place a desk was inserted. Instead of the original front couch, a different futon-like thing was mounted. The rear matress needs replacing. It has wood or pergo flooring. There is a stove and I believe just a microwave, no oven. I haven't seen the damage to the panel yet, but that could be a huge sticking point for me. I can't tell what type, if any stabilizers are present. It has a manual jack. No wrap around windows and only 1 awning. It's also missing the bathroom door.
$4000 for a 98 is VERY low, unless its been in a bad accident with a lopsided body. Let me know if still available!
Thanks
Paul
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:18 PM   #12
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1998 25' Safari
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I just found out that the "dent" in the rear is about 8-10" in diameter, caused by backing into a tree. Its my buddy that owns it, so he's giving me the buddy deal.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:44 PM   #13
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Depending on the severity of the damage, I still might have taken the newer trailer......but that's pretty much based on my skill level for repairs and the potential cost of appliance replacements in the older trailer. Also adding in to my equation might be holding tank capacities and condition of the axles in the older trailer. If that floor has a soft spot the other question is whether the soft spot has been caused by a hidden leak which is still active.

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Old 03-06-2008, 03:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyo
Nobody? Nothing else?
you feel like taking up the floor and finding the extent of damage where the soft spot is...ask Soldiermedic. He can tell you about our floor rot woes....
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:40 PM   #15
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Perhaps this will be a good review with refelections from a restoration expert. I found this information and thought it very good advice for someone anticipating taking on a vintage project and in this case thought the comments about Almost all original would be addressed in this comment.


"Owning and running the largest Airstream rebuilding shop in North
America has taught me a great deal about these older gems. On a daily
basis we have opportunities to reverse engineer Airstream and other
all-aluminum trailers from the past 60 years.

1. Make does matter. Airstream is one of the best trailers ever made.

2. Year also matters. Many people disparage the early "Beatrice Years"
(early 70s)for chassis problems. In part, on the larger models with
rear bathrooms there is some validity to the claim of "tail droop." It
was not an universal problem across the fleet. We have had many of
these units in that have had not any chassis problems whatsoever.

Where we see the most chassis problems is in the period preceding the
Beatrice Years which were the three "Corning Years" 1966, 1967, and
1968. In these models the windows were made from Corning curved,
chemically tempered glass which was an innovative design departure
from framed windows. The problem was that they frequently leaked and
caused the floors and chassis to rot. For a while, the replacement
glass was not available and many owners replaced broken panes with
acrylic or polycarbonate sheet which leaked even worse. Of the
Airstream fleet we see from this vintage, over 70% needs at least some
floor repair and fully 50% needs some chassis repair. We have replaced
the entire chassis on several.

The areas where we see the most deterioration are under each window
and particularly under the rear bathrooms. On all years the water
issues are compounded by the installation of fiberglass insulation
under the floor and sealing it in with the aluminum belly pan. The two
work together to hold moisture against the floor and the chassis.
Units that come from dry climates are always a better bet but not a
sure thing. It is impossible to really inspect the chassis and floor
without removing the belly pan. We have also seen what appear to be
high mileage units that have perfect skins and solid floors that have
metal fatigue cracks in the steel chassis. You should always look in
any available opening where you can see under the bathroom, the
kitchen, the battery area, etc for signs of floor rot. The good news
is that the windows are again available and modern synthetic seals
appear to work better than the original rubber-based product.

3. Units with Jalouise windows have more floor problems than trailers
with standard windows.

4. There must be an unwritten rule somewhere that trailer electrical
systems from the factory are never good enough and all previous owners
must fidget with them to get them "right." We have found two-wire,
light gauge extension cords with the three-way head hard wired into
the trailer and passing through a rough cut hole in the liner panels.
We have seen 50 amp screw-in fuses in a single fuse block powering the
entire trailer that was rated at 15 amps. We have seen the electric
brakes rewired to the reverse lights on the tow vehicle. (when you try
to back up, the brakes lock up.) Some Airstream trailers built before
1974 have all copper wiring, some have all aluminum and a few have
both. Aluminum wiring is a problem. Many people will say it is not but
just check with the Consumer Product Safety Administration's Web site
and look for the horror stories. Some well meaning people have
retrofitted their older trailers with GFIC outlets where no proper
ground exists on their system.

5. Axles wear out. They work harden with mileage which can lead to the
spindle breaking off. There are no odometers on trailers so we never
know how many miles are on them. Some folks who may or may not know
better sell used Airstream axles on eBay. If you are looking at at
trailer older than a 1974 model, plan on replacing the axle. It is
very inexpensive insurance policy compared to the damage and risk of
injury a wheel running loose down the freeway can cause.

6. Plumbing freezes and needs to be repaired...properly. I never fails
to amuse our employees the extent to which some people will go to
avoid making a good and proper repair on a frozen pipe. We have seen
layers and layers of fiberglass, resin and string wrapped around a
split pipe that still leaks. We have seen sections of automotive
heater hose spliced into copper potable water lines. We have even seen
sections of garden hose spliced into copper propane lines and held in
with twisted bailing wire for clamps.

7. Originality may or may not count. Here I will get dozens of replies
disagreeing with me...but here is my two cents worth. Truly original
vintage Airstream trailers are rare and really cool to find. We had a
1969 unit in a few weeks ago that still had its original 8 track tape
player in it. It even came with a good collection of tapes! The tapes
were even ones I used to have! However, my Ipod takes up much less
space and has better sound quality. The fridge in this unit still
worked but the owners will have to go outside and light several
matches every time the pilot light needs to be lit. A modern fridge
has a remote start. The furnace has untold hours on it. It works now
but will it work next fall?

Original units are cool but they might not be all that comfortable to
use, cheap to own or reliable. Some people think that an all original
trailer is worth more and to the collectors this is probably true.
There are, however, more users, travelers and campers than there are
collectors and curators. A vintage trailer is more like a house built
30, 40 or 50 years ago that was never updated and has been under
constant earthquake conditions than a "barn find" vintage car. With
that said, we try to match owners and trailers so that we aren't
ripping up nice vintage trailers to produce highly custom units. If
someone shows up with an all original unit we find a similar trailer
that has one wheel in the recycle yard for their project and a buyer
for the good one.

8. Make sure that your coach is in very sound physical condition
before you start redecorating. It is really disheartening to owners
and shops to have to take out all of your hard work on interior
finishes to get down to the bones of the project in order to repair
them. Start with the chassis, axle, belly pan, windows and shell
before picking out the "Route 66" fabric and the Coca-Cola accents.
The same goes for the electrical and plumbing system.

9. Units built before the early 70's do not have gray water tanks.
Campgrounds frown on dumping gray water on their property. Units built
before the mid 60s sometimes don't have sewage holding tanks.
Campgrounds REALLY frown at digging a hole under your trailer and
dumping into it! You will need to upgrade these systems so that you
can try to work around some persnickety rules that won't allow older
trailers into some campgrounds.

10. Some campgrounds won't let older trailers in. These rules are made
by zoning departments trying to keep things neat and clean. The are
aimed at Red Green who shows up with the 1980 Dodge Winnebago with the
sidesheets held on with duct tape, the tailpipe tied up with bailing
wire and the slant six engine dripping more oil than the Exxon Valdez
and he wants to leave it there until he "can make a few repairs." If
your Airstream looks nice and shiny (not necessarily polished) the
untrained eye of the gate keeper at the campground probably won't ask
how old it is. And if you are nice and safe while you are there, they
probably won't take a second look at the rest of us showing up as well.

I hope I haven't scared you away but that I have left you with open
eyes. Do not go shopping alone. Take a skeptical and hopefully
knowledgeable friend along. If you don't have a knowledgeable friend,
find a mobile RV repair tech to take with you or get the owner to take
the trailer to your friendly local Airstream dealer for a pre-purchase
inspection. It will give you great negotiating power. You should be
able to negotiate for any repairs required to keep you and your
intended trailer safe and dry.

Happy hunting!

Brett
http://TimelessTravelTrailers.com"
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:54 PM   #16
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Looks like pretty sound advice to me ~

Shari
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:12 AM   #17
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Okay, I think I am going to try to sell the Tradewind (although I love nostalgia, vintage, etc.) and buy the Safari. I think the Tradewind is like a Cadillac compared to the Safari, but it makes more sense. Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:59 AM   #18
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Dannyo

Dude, you've only had the TW for what, less than a week? Why don't you at least drop the belly pan and have a look see at the frame condition first...

~Bob
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:46 PM   #19
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Which Stream?

Greetings DannyO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by takenitez
Dannyo

Dude, you've only had the TW for what, less than a week? Why don't you at least drop the belly pan and have a look see at the frame condition first...

~Bob
I'm with Bob. A well-maintained Vintage Airstream isn't necessarily something to be afraid of in regular use. I have no reservations towing either of my coaches anywhere that I choose to travel. It would be rather unusual to have all of the appliances fail at one time -- my Overlander and my Minuet have both required a few appliance replacements, but not all at once -- the Minuet needed a new water heater during its second season with me, a replacement for the original Uni-Volt during its third season with me, and a rebuild on the original PAR water pump last season -- it is still running with its original range/oven, and furnace (it didn't have an air conditioner when it came to live with me). Given the propensity for modern appliances to be designed for something in the neighborhood of a ten year useful life -- the appliance replacement routine could be an issue in a '98 as well.

I am not a do-it-yourselfer, and have had all of my appliance replacement and maintenance handled by my favorite Vintage-friendly Airstream dealer. By working with the service manager at the dealership, I have been able to have my work scheduled for slow times when there is a better opportunity to work with the coach, and I feel certain that through this advanced planning, I have been able to save some money on labor -- I know that I received very good off-season deals on the air conditioners for both coaches as well as a new furnace for the Overlander. If you have no serious reservations about the Tradewind other than the floor issue and "possible frame rust", I would encourage you to have it evaluated by a Vintage-Airstream-friendly shop before condeming what may be a very sound coach.

Good luck with your deliberations!

Kevin
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:38 PM   #20
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Kevin and Bob,

Thanks for the inspiration. To answer your question, Bob, the truth is I just don't have time. How long will it take me to drop the belly pan? I have a friend that's a welder, so if there is a problem, he can help me. To me, things usually boil down to a time and money issue. Between 56hr. work weeks, watching my 2 year old on my days off, and cooking/cleaning, I'm left with very little time. Just like Kevin, I am not a do-it-yourselfer, at least not for big things. To me, the difference in cost between the 2 trailers would offset any mandatory work needing done on the Safari. I'm just in a sticky spot. I'm really still torn. Thanks again. Anyone else with some insight? I'll look for a place in/near Austin to have it evaluated.
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