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Phrunes · 04-24-2011, 12:03 PM

Help! I'm depressed, and beginning to question my sanity and common sense. Are my expectations too high, am I only visualizing the end state? Have I been blinded by aluminitis, or am I aded by all of the nice Airstreams you all seem to have?
I have "bought" three AS trailers in the past month and for various reasons, backed out upon inspecting them. I would like to describe the most recent, and need some feedback on whether I was right to have backed out, or was I being unreasonable?
Year: 1976
Model: 31 Sovereign rear bath full size bed option
Price negotiated: $2,500
Distance from me: 800 miles

Ok, I asked the right questions, had some pictures and have faith in others.

My concerns: pink was with owner, friend was selling, i provided contract and checked out process with dmv in two states. I could live with the risk.

I spent my two days of travel and $500 in fuel to go get it. Had to buy 4 new tires to pull it home safely...i scored a great CL find in the city near where i was picking up the trailer. 4 brand new 225/75-15 D rated trailer tires for $240 bucks! Ok, check that off my list. Now, i travel another hour and reach the trailer.

Condition: skin as described...NO dents! Great! Floor: took my awl, it seemed ok around entrance and perimeter. Bathroom floor has been covered with tile, and full sized household toilet installed. Hmmmm? Im getting uneasy now...all cabinetry was delaminating, interior end caps both cracked and front had clock surround poking thru, refridgerator worked, panel behing cracked, couple of cabinet doors missing, no battries installed to test everything, sink fixture was loose and AC cover inside loose, front fan and motor missing and cover had holes and cracked, frame was good as this one sat in the desert for 20 years. Now the deal breaker for me...all of the windows were yellow and blistered between the panes. I am assuming that is because PO put reflective panels inside to beat back the sun. The zip Dee curbside was present, two others were taken off and sold. Tanks not updated with current OPD. Both gauchos ripped significantly and foam exposed.

Am I being unreasonable by walking? Should I expect this condittion on my beer budget? Please help, im beginning to question my sanity.

**moosetags** · 04-24-2011, 12:13 PM

Absolutely not. You got a bad feeling about it, and just wasn't right. From what you say, you were looking at a shell. The household toilet would have scared me too.

Brian

wasagachris · 04-24-2011, 12:14 PM

Phrunes Everything you described is as you would expect on a trailer that has "sat in the desert for 20 yrs". The tinting that is in between the windows is factory installed and that would be the condition if it was in the desert all this time.
If this was indeed the model and year you want then you should have negotiated the asking price using the conditions you described as points for reduction in the price. The missing title would have been a deal breaker in my opinion unless they are willing to greatly reduce the price.

Gene · 04-24-2011, 12:18 PM

Come right in Mr. Phrunes.

Have a seat.

How has your week gone?

Oh, you are interested in buying an old trailer?

How did you reach this decision?

Have you ever done anything like this before?

Do you have the skills to fix up an old trailer?

Do you have the money to put into an old trailer?

How do you feel when you think about doing the work?

Let's talk about your mother…

Oh, the hour is up. That will be $150. Next week, same time?

Gene

**Stefrobrts** · 04-24-2011, 12:26 PM

It sounds to me like you might be happier with a late model trailer that has perhaps been a bit more 'gently used' than this 35 year-old project. It sounds like a LOT of work to me, and the delaminating cabinets sound like the biggest sign that something is amiss (though I don't know anything about desert trailers).

The big question is do you want a big project to occupy you at home, or do you just want a nice trailer that needs a bit of here-and-there and you'll be out enjoying it this summer? They end up costing close to the same either way, it just depends on how much work you can or will do yourself!

Mike Leary · 04-24-2011, 12:32 PM

All of the above is true, when I inspected the AS 27' for my friend in Arizona ($2500.00), I told him, "It's not in bad condition, for what it is, but NO WAY will I permit you to think this is a coach that you can hook-up and merrily travel the country!"

fmr.capt.evi · 04-24-2011, 12:40 PM

.....I think we should go to two sessions a week for a while; and......can you bring your wife in with you?

Phrunes · 04-24-2011, 01:47 PM

Thank you all. I'm stabilized for today because of your sound advice. It is unlikely that I will require a 36 hour hold at this point. To clarify in advance of my next session: I am pretty handy, not afraid of working 18 hour days to revitalize an old friend like an AS, have lots of tools, and an understanding wife who will keep my five ankle biters at bay while I tinker. So, I guess you could say that coupled with the forum, i have a great support system.

Am I being reasonable...im looking for the following...25 to 27 feet, great skin, minimal floor rot, solid frame, clear windows, and unmollested interior to use as a template for gutting and updating. Budget: $3,000 entry fee and about $3,000 added over time for basic improvements.

Am I crazy?

**Stefrobrts** · 04-24-2011, 02:02 PM

With those qualifications in mind, I guess you need to find out what is involved in re-habbing those windows. It sounds like if you want to gut it and re-build then the delaminated cabinets and the house toilet and stuff like that isn't as big a deal. So it sounds like the windows are the big thing tripping you up on this one.

wasagachris · 04-24-2011, 02:12 PM

$3,000 added over time for basic improvements

Phrunes that budget will be eaten up in appliances alone. Water heater $500, furnace $800, stove $500, fridge $1500, A/C $800. Now think about axles $500 each with mods needed or $750 each for bolt ins, tires $125 each, battery $125, and most likely frame repairs will be needed on any 70's unit no matter where it is from. I would estimate at least $10k for a modest reno and $30k for a full blown all out restoration.
If your budget is only $6K then look for a newer unit and be prepared to spend a little more, at least $10K for a ready to go unit.

**Stefrobrts** · 04-24-2011, 02:49 PM

Yeah, I hadn't thought about your budget, but I spent $6k on restoring my trailer, and it was beautiful to begin with! I replaced the axle, fridge, charging system, battery, furnace, part of the floor, had the cracks in the frame welded, replaced the damaged LP pipes underneith, replaced the regulator, rebuilt the water heater, replaced the toilet, and I think that was about it. If someone looked at before and after pictures of my trailer, they would say 'what did you do?'

If you want to rebuild the interior, you'll be re-doing counters, sinks, plumbing, probably messing with your electrical, replacing appliances, cushions, curtains, flooring - it will all add up fast. Wasagachris has pretty reasonable numbers there!

Phrunes · 04-24-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

With those qualifications in mind, I guess you need to find out what is involved in re-habbing those windows. It sounds like if you want to gut it and re-build then the delaminated cabinets and the house toilet and stuff like that isn't as big a deal. So it sounds like the windows are the big thing tripping you up on this one.

Yep, that was my thinking too. I figured used replacements because disassembly, hours of stripping, reglazing and reassembly makes no sense. Any idea whats involved regarding removal and repair or replacement of the windows?

aceflys · 04-24-2011, 03:19 PM

I feel your pain. I have been there. My 1st AS sounds a lot like the one you were looking at; except it cost me $1000 and was only 50 miles from home. After I got it home, I found out what I had. It was really rough: bad floor, frame, fogged windows, I could go on and on. I knew I was over my head and it was just not worth my time and money.
Well I guess I'm smarter then some other AS wannabes. I just couldn't pull the trigger on that project. It sat in my back yard for two years as I learned more about AS's. I ended up finding the right trailer for us. An Airstream that was in much better shape, hardly used and not in need of a complete restoration. I paid only a little over your whole budget and I have been using my 66 Caravel for 3 years with only minor repairs.
My advise to you would be to spend as much as you can and buy an AS in good condition. You can save a ton just not having to pay the doc for all those sessions.

Ace in Pa

Proud Airstream owner

PA TAC-1
WBCCI 2169

wasagachris · 04-24-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrunes

Yep, that was my thinking too. I figured used replacements because disassembly, hours of stripping, reglazing and reassembly makes no sense. Any idea whats involved regarding removal and repair or replacement of the windows?

Phrunes removing the entire window glass and frame from the sash assembly is actually very easy.
Disconnect the lift up arms from the window. Go outside and stand on a ladder and raise the window up about 120 degrees and the window will release from the sash. The window has a J shaped hinge attached to the top and a corresponding J shaped slot on the sash.
There are a couple of threads on disassembling the windows to remove and replace the factory window tinting.
Have a look at the window frame itself. If there are screws all around the glass frame then the window is very easy to take apart and repair. If not it requires drilling out the rivets holding the hinge to the frame and the rivets that hold the right and left half of the frame together. I'll look for the threads and post the links here for you.
Here is the link for the best thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...ilm-37422.html

Wsmith · 04-24-2011, 03:42 PM

Sounds to me that it was a fair price for the condition it was in otherwise it would have a price tag in the $7,000 and up price range.
I have a 85 that went through Hurracane Ike that has since developed problems from trapped moisture and being is a salt enviroment with high humidity. I wouldn't sell it for $10,000 because I know what I have I just needed time to get some things done to her. After 25 years she deserves a good overhaul. New Fabrics, counter tops, sinks, flooring, and new HDTV's, still debating on a new refrigerator.

Sometimes you can find good deals, so you need to keep looking and not be discouraged or expect too much until you find that deal. I bought a 9 month old 79 Airstream Excella 500 and 1980 3/4 ton suburban with under 9,000 miles for the blue book base price of the trailer alone.

Phrunes · 04-24-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasagachris

$3,000 added over time for basic improvements

Phrunes that budget will be eaten up in appliances alone. Water heater $500, furnace $800, stove $500, fridge $1500, A/C $800. Now think about axles $500 each with mods needed or $750 each for bolt ins, tires $125 each, battery $125, and most likely frame repairs will be needed on any 70's unit no matter where it is from. I would estimate at least $10k for a modest reno and $30k for a full blown all out restoration.
If your budget is only $6K then look for a newer unit and be prepared to spend a little more, at least $10K for a ready to go unit.

Holy smokes! I'm not looking to build a concourse model! I've already got a new AC unit here my Dad's a retired RV mechanic, the fridge can be rebuilt in Vallejo, CA for $350, heaters are not too technical for a heating and air guy like me, and a new stovetop if required is just a couple of valves, manifolds and a respray away. Pex and fittings are cheap with a contractors license and pulling new copper to replace the aluminum wire is likely a pain, but no mre than US$350 including a new charge wizard if I had to do it. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, or unrealistic...I'm just fortunate to have access to some resources locally that some folks don't. So, with that said...taking windows out and buck riveting them back into an otherwise clean body scares me to death, as do replacing body panels and frames (hence the western states, desert search). When I built my rock crawler, I was faced with the same challenges...I could blow tens of thousands on custom built axles, long travel bypass shocks, customized rock rails and a cage, and fiberglass body panels. Instead, I kept my goal of accessing some additional areas by moderately upgrading the base platform. I didn't spend more than my budget and I ended up with a very capable, nice looking rig and some great memories of places I'd never seen.

So, how involved would the windows as described in my original post have been? Assuming the frame was solid (I checked, and it was). Did I freak out uneccessarily on the windows? He wouldnt budge on the price below the $2,500.

62bam · 04-24-2011, 03:56 PM

THERAPY will not help! I've been there.......we have had 6 Airstreams so far......have 3 now. Someday, I guess, we will have to sell our 62 Bambi......tears are about to flow just thinking about it.

wasagachris · 04-24-2011, 03:59 PM

No drilling out rivets and rebucking is needed to remove the windows. I covered this back in post #14 in this thread and added a link to a thread on repairing the windows.

Replacing the A/C requires modifying the shell to accept a newer style unit. Basically the opening needs reinforcing to hold the new unit and some changes to use the drip pan from the old unit.
I still think the no title thing is a huge issue though.

Phrunes · 04-24-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasagachris

Phrunes removing the entire window glass and frame from the sash assembly is actually very easy.
Disconnect the lift up arms from the window. Go outside and stand on a ladder and raise the window up about 120 degrees and the window will release from the sash. The window has a J shaped hinge attached to the top and a corresponding J shaped slot on the sash.
There are a couple of threads on disassembling the windows to remove and replace the factory window tinting.
Have a look at the window frame itself. If there are screws all around the glass frame then the window is very easy to take apart and repair. If not it requires drilling out the rivets holding the hinge to the frame and the rivets that hold the right and left half of the frame together. I'll look for the threads and post the links here for you.
Here is the link for the best thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...ilm-37422.html

Geez! Now that I know that, I shoulda brought it home. Crap! Ok, i'll rationalize it in my mind by reminding myself that it was advertised as a 27 footer (which is what I wanted) and it turned out to be a 31 Sovereign.

**Stefrobrts** · 04-24-2011, 04:03 PM

I'd say if the windows are that easy to rehab, you might want to take another look at that trailer. Be sure to research axles before you do though - that's a big dollar item - about $4k of the $6k I spent on my trailer (and mine is single axle)! The rest will just nickle and dime you, but you can still use it while you're fixing it up. Sounds like if you don't have a problem with the title, that one might still be a possibility - but I still wouldn't hand over money without a title in hand.