Need help with Purchase 2005 Safari LS 22'

[cztexas]

Hi,
After dreaming many years, finally we begin to try to get an Airstream.
Considering I am the newbie, I want to start with a small size one. There is a local Airstream for sale: 2005 Safari LS 22 ft.

Cons first:
The layout is fine except I do not like the wet bath.
It was sitting outside for 2 years, so it will need a total clean up for sure.
Power Jack is not working,
Battery is dead,
No propane tanks and the connection pipe is leaking. This should be an easy fix with replacing it.
Need some minor insulation repairs.

Pros:
LS upgrade;
Inside is ok and clean;
AC is good;
It has Tandem axle and four tires are close to new;
Everything seems working except I cannot test every function due to no propane and water hook up (propane connection head is leaking). Seller seems to be a nice guy and said they are working last time, but it was maybe 2 years ago.

The seller wants $25k since he paid over $35k four years ago but only used for very few times. It seems a little on the high side to me. But the seller is willing to negotiate.

So what the reasonable price will be? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you so much for your responses.

[KJRitchie]

The first con sounds like you should look for a different model. Be patient.

Kelvin

[PKI]

An asset is worth what you will pay and what the owner will agree to accept.

If the owner is not willing to make the trailer whole, it is not worth a full retail price, so assume it is only worth a wholesale value.

If it was worth $45K 4 years ago, you can assume it is now worth less. Assume a ten year life, which would give you $4500 per year depreciation, except that an asset always has a salvage value of 10-20%. If you assume 20%, that is $9K. Depreciation would then be 45-9=36K/10=3.6K per year. Four years depreciation is then 14.4K, which makes the depreciated value 45-14.5=30.5K. Assume you believe the $45K was a $5K premium when the previous owner purchased the trailer. That makes the value more like the $25K that is being asked.

However, the LPG tanks are missing, the batteries are dead, the tires are likely at end of life, the bearings need service and there is a very big negative in that the unit has a wet bath. LPG tanks =$100, new regulator $50, bearing repack/brake check $200, tires=$500, batteries=$200, leak/misc repair=$300 for a total of $1350. Assume $250 for a wash and wax which is around $1600. If you assume this is greatly understated, you could double the cost, which would be $3200.

So, you can build a case that the coach is worth less than the $25K price. The owner can build the case that it is worth a bit more. However, since the owner has not corrected the short falls it seems reasonable to assume that a discounted price is appropriate.

Other concerns. This trailer is not new and could well have water damage from leaks. Check out the floor with a moisture meter. Look for mold, soft spots, and any indication of water intrusion. If it's not dry and solid, value degrades considerably. Look for corrosion on the frame. Check electrical and plumbing operation.

Suggest you inspect the trailer carefully and then decide what you believe the coach is worth. Place a firm offer with the seller. It will be accepted or rejected and you can enjoy the purchase or move on to your next dream opportunity.

Hope someone has purchased a similar trailer and can provide you with a market based estimate of value.

Good Luck. Pat

[cztexas]

I totally understand this. We need to get one we are happy with.
But I am thinking as long as I can get a good deal on this camper, I will live with it or I can always modify it later...
So I would say, price is the one does matter for now. So sad to say soooo!!

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

The first con sounds like you should look for a different model. Be patient.

Kelvin

[cztexas]

Wow, thank you so much for helping me with this, especially the tips to check for the floor, etc.

Seller paid $35k four years ago, not $45k. But I use your method to figure out some number, like $16k. However, this number is kind of much lower than what he asked. He is willing to reduce the price, but I need to setup my own bottom line before I talked with him.

What do you think this unit worth? What kind of price range you think will be a good deal?

Thank you a lot, Pat!

Originally Posted by PKI

An asset is worth what you will pay and what the owner will agree to accept.

If the owner is not willing to make the trailer whole, it is not worth a full retail price, so assume it is only worth a wholesale value.

If it was worth $45K 4 years ago, you can assume it is now worth less. Assume a ten year life, which would give you $4500 per year depreciation, except that an asset always has a salvage value of 10-20%. If you assume 20%, that is $9K. Depreciation would then be 45-9=36K/10=3.6K per year. Four years depreciation is then 14.4K, which makes the depreciated value 45-14.5=30.5K. Assume you believe the $45K was a $5K premium when the previous owner purchased the trailer. That makes the value more like the $25K that is being asked.

However, the LPG tanks are missing, the batteries are dead, the tires are likely at end of life, the bearings need service and there is a very big negative in that the unit has a wet bath. LPG tanks =$100, new regulator $50, bearing repack/brake check $200, tires=$500, batteries=$200, leak/misc repair=$300 for a total of $1350. Assume $250 for a wash and wax which is around $1600. If you assume this is greatly understated, you could double the cost, which would be $3200.

So, you can build a case that the coach is worth less than the $25K price. The owner can build the case that it is worth a bit more. However, since the owner has not corrected the short falls it seems reasonable to assume that a discounted price is appropriate.

Other concerns. This trailer is not new and could well have water damage from leaks. Check out the floor with a moisture meter. Look for mold, soft spots, and any indication of water intrusion. If it's not dry and solid, value degrades considerably. Look for corrosion on the frame. Check electrical and plumbing operation.

Suggest you inspect the trailer carefully and then decide what you believe the coach is worth. Place a firm offer with the seller. It will be accepted or rejected and you can enjoy the purchase or move on to your next dream opportunity.

Hope someone has purchased a similar trailer and can provide you with a market based estimate of value.

Good Luck. Pat

[NWGetaways]

Unless it's REALLY cheap, I'd be very leery of a trailer that has been sitting and isn't operational.

I'd wonder why the seller wouldn't do that first before selling, if they are indeed minor issues.

I would at a minimum get it to a place where you can get battery, AC, propane, and water up and running. Then you can test the furnace, plumbing, refrigerator, electrical. An RV shop should be able to do that for you.

[cztexas]

That will be a good idea!
How do you define the REALLY cheap, for this one?

Originally Posted by NWGetaways

Unless it's REALLY cheap, I'd be very leery of a trailer that has been sitting and isn't operational.

I'd wonder why the seller wouldn't do that first before selling, if they are indeed minor issues.

I would at a minimum get it to a place where you can get battery, AC, propane, and water up and running. Then you can test the furnace, plumbing, refrigerator, electrical. An RV shop should be able to do that for you.

[Foiled Again]

I thought about sending you a PM, but I owned the CCD version of this model - and I quite liked the wet bath - it's far larger than the shower in a split bath and cleaning it is a "hose down" proposition, which if you have little boys who miss the pot can be quite charming! In fact if you do have a squirming 2 year old, this layout is about the only one that would let you take him/her into the shower for a hose down without risking getting spray from the shower all over the inside of the trailer. Most split bath trailers are short on knee room when one is seated. Again not a problem with the wet bath. Squeegee it down after use (a one minute job) and pull the curtain over to protect the toilet so the seat doesn't get wet - viola!

BUT I bought and sold it before I found out that the floor was OSB (oriented stand board) not plywood, and that the rear bumper area wasn't properly sealed so that water flooded into the flooring in the rear... AND to top it all off that the frame on the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and some of the 2006's was prone to breaking.

The woman who bought mine experienced a broken frame but had a great welder who was able to repair and reinforce it on site. One other user reported he'd gotten a factory replacement frame, then IT BROKE less than a year later. I'm pretty sure the frames on 2006 and later ones were beefed up - at least one inch deeper "C" channel - and hopefully a better grade of steel.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole without doing an extensive "drop the belly pan, pull the insulation and go over the frame and floor perimeter with a fine toothed comb. The frame broke right behind the rear axle.

Here's a Thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...nal-48105.html

[NWGetaways]

Wow that's good to know. Sounds like one to avoid.

[cztexas]

I never though about this for wet bath. It did make sense since I have the little ones.

Regarding the frame failure, I heard this before and also was told AS used better grade of steel after 2004 to avoid this problem. So this one is 05 and I thought it is out of that range.

Anyway, I will pay attention to this.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

I thought about sending you a PM, but I owned the CCD version of this model - and I quite liked the wet bath - it's far larger than the shower in a split bath and cleaning it is a "hose down" proposition, which if you have little boys who miss the pot can be quite charming! In fact if you do have a squirming 2 year old, this layout is about the only one that would let you take him/her into the shower for a hose down without risking getting spray from the shower all over the inside of the trailer. Most split bath trailers are short on knee room when one is seated. Again not a problem with the wet bath. Squeegee it down after use (a one minute job) and pull the curtain over to protect the toilet so the seat doesn't get wet - viola!

BUT I bought and sold it before I found out that the floor was OSB (oriented stand board) not plywood, and that the rear bumper area wasn't properly sealed so that water flooded into the flooring in the rear... AND to top it all off that the frame on the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and some of the 2006's was prone to breaking.

The woman who bought mine experienced a broken frame but had a great welder who was able to repair and reinforce it on site. One other user reported he'd gotten a factory replacement frame, then IT BROKE less than a year later. I'm pretty sure the frames on 2006 and later ones were beefed up - at least one inch deeper "C" channel - and hopefully a better grade of steel.

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole without doing an extensive "drop the belly pan, pull the insulation and go over the frame and floor perimeter with a fine toothed comb. The frame broke right behind the rear axle.

Here's a Thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...nal-48105.html

[PKI]

Oops - $35K - that gets you to $7K salvage value and 2.8K/yr depreciation. Four years depreciation is $35K-11200 = $23,800. Less repairs gets you to $20,600. That is not a market price, just a frame of reference. Again, my apology for the initial price error. Pat

[Foiled Again]

Mine was a 2005. The frame broke. The floor was OSB.

That may have been fixed in the later 2005's - but seems to have not occurred in most of the 2006 trailers.

[streaminwild]

Shopping is half the fun. Try onecraigs to compare prices. It may be enlightening

[Starlight Mike]

Was the frame problem also in other models? I have a 2005 25. Tks

[cztexas]

I have read through that thread topic. It seems the problem came from CCD version due the design issue. Safari has different design. I think it should be fine. How long you have owned this unit? What do you think this AS? Thank you. Your hand-on experience will be very helpful.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by m rafferty

Was the frame problem also in other models? I have a 2005 25. Tks

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by cztexas

I have read through that thread topic. It seems the problem came from CCD version due the design issue. Safari has different design. I think it should be fine. How long you have owned this unit? What do you think this AS? Thank you. Your hand-on experience will be very helpful.
Thank you.

Read the thread that was in my first post. Problem was most severe with the front bed models, but did happen with some of the rear kitchen ones too. The frame was the same depth as the 16's and 19's - but flexed too much for a 22 footer. Analagous to using 2 x 6 for floor joists over a 20 foot span. might be FINE for a garden shed, but will make the floor a trampoline on anything bigger. Add the normal vibration of a moving trailer and hairline cracks will start.

The 25 had a frame an inch deeper and Airstream eventually started making everything over 19 with the deeper frame. The OSB floor also contributed to the problem. It lacked the resiliancy of real plywood... and OSB turns into moist Kleenex when wet!

Paula