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Old 07-07-2012, 11:02 AM   #57
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Yes...we bought ours last year and the only problem is one reading lamp fixture that has a bad switch.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:07 AM   #58
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My answer is yes*. The * indicates I'd have to get a really good price. Otherwise, I'd buy a good used model with the features I(we) want - front bedroom, twin beds, etc.

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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Dave,

Try one of these: Newell Coach - Take the good life with you on for size. No Airstream can compare......in fact NOTHING compares to it!
Wow! - This is really interesting. I'll be on the look out for these on the road. Next year we're headed out that way and I want to go on a tour. Very interesting company.

Thanks for the information Lew.
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Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic
1996 GMC Suburban C2500 7.4L
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:08 AM   #59
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Absolutely; we'd buy another Airstream ... 'just don't have the income to spend on one that is a bit larger. This is our TRAVEL trailer - intended for us to travel about. Pulling your gear around in a TT is like putting your best stuff inside of a paint shaker / mixer and not expecting problems.

Quality control issues abound in this country at this time ... in many cases - there is a lack of pride in workmanship - just bring on the big $$$ and fringe benefits! We lost ~$12k trading in a 5 month old SOB to get our AS ... we really like it... much better overall quality of workmanship as well as raw materials. Is this AS worth the big $$$; to us, it is ... most folks always want more $$$ - we are happy campers!
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #60
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I wish to remember some of the prominent complainers, whiners and moaners in history—Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Geo. Washington, et al. Oh, they wanted to change and improve things and that makes them heroes? To the Tories they were treasonous, complaining dirt bags.

There is a splendid irony in people complaining about complainers, and doing so repeatedly on thread after thread.

And then there is the concept of perfection. Every one likes to say "nothing's perfect". But then black and white, all or nothing, "thought" creeps in. RV's are defined as "perfect" (Airstreams) or a pile of junk lying in a ditch (all other RV's). The argument then progresses to—Airstreams are always better than SOB's, thus Airstreams may not be perfect, but they are so close as to be declared perfect, and SOB's are crap and fall apart in a few years or 10 years*. Anyone who criticizes Airstreams is akin to the pile of junk lying in the ditch. They are worthy only of being insulted and objectified. This may one legacy of the Puritans. Even when someone posts a reasoned response, others may read it as absolute and unreasoned ("projection" in psychological terms) and continue arguing when the two people mostly agree.

The problem is that there are infinite gradations between perfect and crap. Some SOB's are made better than Airstreams. Some have better floor plans. Some have some things better and some worse. Some are crap and fall apart. Some Airstreams have few or no problems, some have lots. Generalizations are warm and fuzzy, requiring little thought, but do not advance discussion. Generalizations are inevitable or all posts would be even longer than mine, but should be used carefully. The position that if you don't agree with me you are dirt does not get us anywhere. One reason that people leave the Forum after a few years is probably because of the few who continually objectify others.

Gene

*We have friends with a 20 year old Class C SOB. It is not a Newell or other hyperexpensive MH. It is in good shape and has given them few problems except for a transmission. Fortunately they do not read this Forum or they would have to take it to the junkyard after they scooped up the pieces.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by GT1963 View Post

However, it does make me question - not everything is what it seems. Some can be bad some can be good. There are also several issues with tires especially in trailers. Inflation is a huge issue - even in our cars - getting proper mileage. The largest factor in tire blows today is over heating - and that is due to several things - one underinflated. Two properly loaded trailers - cargo weight. Speeds etc. But if there are proven bad tires out there then the factory should replace them before sending them out to the customer. So not sure why you had to buy new tires???
This is probably worth explaining. In one word GT - "statistics." Parts failures occur in the realm of statistical analysis. For example, if I manufacture 10,000 widgets and collect the data on how long they last before failure, I will get something which looks like the familiar "bell curve."

On a bell curve for my widgets, the left hand side represents one extreme of Life Span, and the right is the other extreme of Life Span, and the middle where the high mountain is, represents the typical life span. So, on the left might be a number of units that only last a few hours. On the far right might be units that last several years. In the middle - where the huge mountain is, are the parts which last for about 6 months, which was our design objective. So, this chart would show the manufacturer how well his part is meeting his design goal.

Now, if the left side begins to grow higher and higher, that means more and more units are failing earlier than they should. But notice - - there are still many units in the middle and on the right which are working "as designed." What is the way to understand this? It means that while some people can have perfectly acceptable widgets other can be experiencing early failures. The guys with the working widgets might stand around saying, "Hey - mine work just fine - what the heck are you complaining about?" But they only do that because they are in the middle or right side of the bell curve when others are on the left. That's the meaning of statistical distribution. Just because one works doesn't mean they all work, and just because one fails doesn't mean they all fail.

In the case of GYM tires, there is actual, real evidence that any reasonable person can look at to see how well these tires are performing. For many people - myself being one of them - we look at the available data and we see the left side (failures) as being way too high and out of balance with the middle and right side. So, I say this to myself: "The odds of me getting a bad tire are very high! because the left side of the bell curve is too high." And when you need four, not one tire, that means you are multiplying the chances you will have a bad tire. If it was an 8 to 1 chance of getting one bad tire, it now becomes a 2 to 1 chance of getting a bad tire when you have FOUR of them! (That of course is an example of the statistical nature of this problem - those are not the actual odds.)

So, when you ask, "why is he buying new tires?" my answer is: A) because the evidence shows I will have a very, very high chance of getting a blowout with these tires; B) I can afford to mitigate that risk by getting new tires of a more reliable brand. I don't want to spend the money, but I feel I must in order to maximize my safety.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:49 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy View Post
So, when you ask, "why is he buying new tires?" my answer is: A) because the evidence shows I will have a very, very high chance of getting a blowout with these tires; B) I can afford to mitigate that risk by getting new tires of a more reliable brand. I don't want to spend the money, but I feel I must in order to maximize my safety.
Okay with all that said and in keeping with this thread. If you bought new - and the tires that came with that new purchase had statistics as you indicate could you have not made a case for Airstream to change them out or put in a process that will encourage them to pull them from there material line up?

Numbers make change - people in numbers. That is the hard thing - because each of us make the necessary changes that we need for our own safety and comfort and STILL buy the Airstream - then we are part of the problem are we not?

You know there are lots of things through out life we pay way too much for. Along with accumulating a ton of things we really don't need in life - but we do it anyway. Because it makes us happy - and happiness is what life is all about really don't you think.

But I think your $800+ out of pocket is well worth the out of pocket - perhaps jump in your garage and unload some of the stuff in there to recoup - just a little humour... Well I'm off to find the Brake threads - as I need all new brakes and have not a clue what axel I have and what size brakes I need. Along with figuring out why my fridge is frosting and find a thermostat of sorts for it.

It has been a fun thread - and I like what I hear on all fronts really.

Right now - I live in a seasonal park in my AS and it is the ONLY AS in a sea of SOB's - and I feel special - and there is no price tag for that.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:52 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I wish to remember some of the prominent complainers, whiners and moaners in history—Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Geo. Washington, et al. Oh, they wanted to change and improve things and that makes them heroes? To the Tories they were treasonous, complaining dirt bags.

There is a splendid irony in people complaining about complainers, and doing so repeatedly on thread after thread.

And then there is the concept of perfection. Every one likes to say "nothing's perfect". But then black and white, all or nothing, "thought" creeps in. RV's are defined as "perfect" (Airstreams) or a pile of junk lying in a ditch (all other RV's). The argument then progresses to—Airstreams are always better than SOB's, thus Airstreams may not be perfect, but they are so close as to be declared perfect, and SOB's are crap and fall apart in a few years or 10 years*. Anyone who criticizes Airstreams is akin to the pile of junk lying in the ditch. They are worthy only of being insulted and objectified. This may one legacy of the Puritans. Even when someone posts a reasoned response, others may read it as absolute and unreasoned ("projection" in psychological terms) and continue arguing when the two people mostly agree.

The problem is that there are infinite gradations between perfect and crap. Some SOB's are made better than Airstreams. Some have better floor plans. Some have some things better and some worse. Some are crap and fall apart. Some Airstreams have few or no problems, some have lots. Generalizations are warm and fuzzy, requiring little thought, but do not advance discussion. Generalizations are inevitable or all posts would be even longer than mine, but should be used carefully. The position that if you don't agree with me you are dirt does not get us anywhere. One reason that people leave the Forum after a few years is probably because of the few who continually objectify others.

Gene

*We have friends with a 20 year old Class C SOB. It is not a Newell or other hyperexpensive MH. It is in good shape and has given them few problems except for a transmission. Fortunately they do not read this Forum or they would have to take it to the junkyard after they scooped up the pieces.
Gene,
I agree with you. I like whiners and complainers. That is why I am drawn to this thread. To hear grown people cry is like music to my ears.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:53 AM   #64
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GT, you can not win on these forums. The whiners will shout you down with their repetitive posts. If a complaint is posted once, that' s enough. Some feel it is necessary to shout those who like AS down. If the biggest problem is your tires on your AS or whether it leaks, then maybe a life assessment is due. If you think you bought junk, it was your decision. Let others make their own choices. If you have a problem ,then tell about it, DO NOT PREACH. Jim
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #65
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I probably would if I could Lew.

The Newell Coach site will not load on my Windows Vista/Exporer. I fired up my W98 and finally got it to load after this message ---------
"This page is accessing information that is not under its control. This poses a security risk. Do you want to continue?"

Evidently they check your credit score before you can even access their website.

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Dave,

Try one of these: Newell Coach - Take the good life with you on for size. No Airstream can compare......in fact NOTHING compares to it!
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:19 PM   #66
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I did access the Newell site after I changed to proper morning clothes, top hat and sword cane and lit up a contraband Havana cigar. I actually had one of my personal servants do it as I do not want to touch the bacteria on the keyboard.

Check out the used Newells—an '03 was less than $300,000. I don't know if these are updated. Personally I'd like something newer so I don't have to be with the riffraff.

Gene
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:34 PM   #67
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Gene == Are you kidding us?
Put a smiley face on there so we can be sure.

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I did access the Newell site after I changed to proper morning clothes, top hat and sword cane and lit up a contraband Havana cigar. I actually had one of my personal servants do it as I do not want to touch the bacteria on the keyboard.

Check out the used Newells—an '03 was less than $300,000. I don't know if these are updated. Personally I'd like something newer so I don't have to be with the riffraff.

Gene
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:43 PM   #68
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Gene == Are you kidding us?
Put a smiley face on there so we can be sure.

Dave
Dave, I don't use emoticons (too complicated for the servants) and I never kid. Now let me get back to my wine and brie.

Gene
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:52 PM   #69
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It is such a shame that a trailer that has the potential to be so great, just isn't.
There are so many disappointed people who have spent their hard earned money on a camping vehicle that does not even keep them dry or warm.
Would I buy a new one? Not yet. Not experienced enough.

New or used, an RV is like a house, there can be non-working items or defective appliances. It requires time to get to know all the issues. I would say that new or used owners should go for shakedown camping trips close to home to learn their camper first. Observe things like when running the water pump, is there water dripping it, Where is the water pump? etc. There is a lot. I have also agreed on this forum that an RV owner needs to be handy or have a maintenance fund.

Woof, I believe that you are thinking things through and realizing that in spite of cost, problems exist. I will tell you that I wanted Airstream but dabbled in considering other brands for cost's sake. I was told that I should absolutely stay with a top name brand (Forest River, Airstream, etc) and look for a non rubber roof solution regardless of brand - this from a head of Winnebago. That right there left two options - metal or fiberglass roof. Who makes all fiberglass roof trailers? I found one - JMS Galileo. Who makes metal? Airstream. Who has a long standing history of business and used products on the market to shop for? Airstream.

I bought an AS that had corrosion and some other needs but it was six years old and less than half the price they wanted for the 25FB twin 2011 model I really wanted. Since then I have put $4000 into it but the corrosion visual is gone and hopefully hindered by the sealers, belt rail and insert. It is starting to look almost like new and hey, although it does not have everything (rear lounge with pano) that I would want, it is a nice AS.

Woof, if you are handy at all, consider a used one. I will tell you that not far from my home there is a used RV graveyard dealer that has several late model trailers, especially 5th wheels with leaky roof damage. It is horrible. Although I am a newbie I would say that if you are careful, a used Airstream would be a good bet. My reading has led me to believe that the achilles heel of leaks are the pano window areas, the bottom outside rail top area around the AS lower portion and the bumper area frame rails. These are all fixable. Naturally there are other areas but overall The leaking is the most serious of issues and it would seem that every brand struggles with that - the AS with particular seam areas and SOB with the shrinking rubber roofs. My friends have a Shamrock Class C and over the past 6 years have had all kinds of trouble - blown out electrical, slide out issues, and were even stranded at one point.

Tchur4, consider this, aside from the issues you have a beautiful trailer. You just need to get the bugs out. Before taking a loss on it remember why you bought it and begin dealing with the issues with your dealer. Test the systems. Make them get it right. Don't take their word for anything. Test it out. Aistream seems to have gotten a bad batch of electric converters as several have had this issue. Ok, then let them fix it. The reflection of quality is based not on the contract they had with the converter company that they used but on how AS handles the issue. The same can be said of any sub part contract on vehicles, etc. Again though, test it once fixed. I understand how you feel paying more for quality, name, etc. The trailer still is an AS and also very nice. Just know that bugs are potentially in any product.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:55 PM   #70
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About 20 posts ago this thread again degraded to another whiner and complainer hijack, and progressed to complaining about those who complain about those who complain.

They can find no good in Airstream, but find good in whining and complaining.

I am thankful to forum members who identify genuine problems and those who have found solutions, but you sure have to wade through a lot of this crap to get there.

doug k
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