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Old 01-16-2014, 02:17 PM   #15
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Good Sam's Club wants Congress to raise fuel prices

I was shocked to read that Good Sams Club along with several RV Manufactures are lobbying Congress to raise the federal fuel tax by 50 cents a gallon. Their argument is that the money will be use to improve roads to RV Parks. I called Good Sam's Club and asked if they have lost their minds? If you are as upset about this as I was, I recommend you give them a call.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rodsterinfl View Post
I thought I would share some info. I have gathered from various forums and well, anywhere I could get information on MPG and RV type. After my purchase of the Airstream my father has begun to consider an RV. One of his primary concerns has been MPG. So, through a series of discussions healthy discourse, I will share what we have found. Note that the MPG ranges are based upon intersecting information rather that one "Joe" who claimed 20 mpg on his 45' Class A diesel using fuel additive! Needless to say, MPG is not everything but for those that care, here tis:

I dug all over the Internet for this! Again, overall reported MPG by RV Class by owners on MANY forums combined- most models 2002 and newer.
Figures calculated overall averages in normal (not mountains or storms) conditions @ reported 62-65 mph in most cases.

Gas Motorhomes- Class A, Class C 6-9 mpg
Diesel Motorhomes Class A 8-11 mpg
Diesel Class C/A Variant(Via/View/Navion) 15-17mpg
@60mph- 10mpg (several late model 35-40' Class A Diesels reports)
@70mph- 7 mpg
(interestingly some had toads and said little to no difference BUT the MPH DID make a difference)

Fifth Wheels- 9-11mpg. This one was all over the place probably due to various truck and length/weight combinations; however the range is certainly is that of MOST owners' reports. One particular site polled many owners and a gentleman summed it up (as they compared Travel Trailers to Fifth Wheels), "Trailers average 2-3 mpg better than a similar fifth wheel primarily due to the towing height and wind resistance."

Travel Trailers @65mph Overall findings

12-14 mpg Diesel truck 3/4 ton
10-12 mpg Gas truck 1/2 ton

Some probably look at this and say what's new. I found it interesting as show sales people really give some wild figures. I did find one outlier, a class A/C variant, the View/Navion and Via line. They are reported as diesels to get 15-17 by MOST owners but they are also narrow and smaller coaches.

Again, these are reported by MANY owners.
yeah, we knew that.

but- did you know the pyramids were a mistake?

There is not much you can do to change those numbers. Just get an Airstream, go slow, and get 12...
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by twrastall View Post
I was shocked to read that Good Sams Club along with several RV Manufactures are lobbying Congress to raise the federal fuel tax by 50 cents a gallon. Their argument is that the money will be use to improve roads to RV Parks. I called Good Sam's Club and asked if they have lost their minds? If you are as upset about this as I was, I recommend you give them a call.
Where did you find this information? I can't find anything on the web about it. I couldn't find anyone proposing a 50 cent increase, nor could I find anywhere that GS was supporting such an increase.

There was a US House proposal in December to increase it by 15 cents...
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:15 AM   #18
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Ok you shoppers: MPG and RV Type

Perhaps you knew such info m.hony but I did not. I spent most of my pre owner time at shows where sales people would say anything about mileage. I just posted this for others who might be contemplating an rv and considering mpg like my father. If my post is not of value- just skip it. I will tell you that the mpg ranges that I listed are from owner averages although there may be isolated examples outside of the range it would seem that these are accurate.

This gas tax legislation is real. One concern I have is that as we get more hybrid and electric vehicles that use less gas, how do they pay for the roads they also use? Remember the guzzler tax? What about a fuel sipper tax? Also, back in the summer an oil spokesman was on TV talking about oil prices in detail and broke down he costs. Aside from getting too political one indisputable fact that was apparent is that government taxes at both ends- refinery and retail. While we hear on tv that they haven't raised the retail tax for so many years they have greatly raised it on the other end. This along with other issues to leave out have caused what we see. But no one should deny that fuel levies have remained unchanged as a more back door approach has been applied.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:52 AM   #19
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Where do they get the money to build roads? NC has instituted a $100 annual fee for electric hybrids. Sucks to be them. This is Bass Ackward. They should be encouraging high efficiency vehicles. But the state's have their own issues and are not sympathetic to National Concerns.

Many ideas have been floated on how to make up for lost revenues... and probably the most insidious is a fee on miles driven.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:04 AM   #20
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I was just being silly. Laugh a little.
There really are no RV's that get good mileage- or you pay more up front for increased fuel economy-
If someone can purchase a $30,000 pickup and an $80,000 trailer, I would think they could afford the gas.
Fuel efficient camping? Tent camping from a motorcycle or car...
I have done similar research for our fleet of 300-
Cargo vans average 14 mpg.
Box trucks average 10 mpg.
Brand, engine, transmission, rear end gears don't make much difference.
It is aerodynamics- Airstreams will get 2 mpg more than a square trailer-
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #21
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Back to the original topic. Our gas usage can vary a lot Yes, we do the 62-65 cruise towing, but we had a one time low getting 10.8mpg going uphill and heading into a Santa Anna sustained 38mph wind. By the same token our all time best was in a caravan towing downhill at 40mph and got 20mpg. Generally it hovers around 16mpg with our 6cyl Honda Ridgeline with 240HP.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #22
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A few years back, I was a consulant at the NC Department of Revenue. I stopped on my way to work one morning and stopped for a quick couple of gallons of diesel for my Benz and was approached by a reporter for the Raleigh paper. He wanted to know if I was driving more or less these days with the higher prices. I explained I was driving more having just moved to FL and commuting on weekends to NC for work.

I further explained that I was pumping just enough to get me to SC that evening on my way back home, so that I could take advantage of the much lower fuel prices (lower tax) there. I enquired what the topic of his article was and he indicated it was all about the loss of tax revenue due to folks using less fuel. I related how I had bought a diesel car so that I could get 40+ MPG, which he also published. Needless to say, my honesty probably did not sit well with the management, but there it was.

Back on topic, I posted to the B forum about how LTV is offering an option on their Free Spirit models for the new 2.1L inline 4 diesel. I have this same engine in my newest Benz (E-Class) and love its performance and efficiency. I am getting 45+ MPG. I no longer commute long distance (I now work from home), but for leisure travel its great!

I looked on Fuelly.com and there is one entry for a high roof Sprinter with that engine... He is averaging 22.4 MPG. A step up from the 16-18 others are getting with the 3.0L. Am considering a B van and I wouldn't rule out the LTV. The 2.1L has a biturbo setup (two inline turbos). They get pretty good HP and torque with that setup. I should mention that the 2.1L comes with a 7-speed. In my car, I need to get up to 50 mph to get in 7th, but there is negligible difference in performance between 6th and 7th gear. Would expect the van to reach 7th above that, but once there the engine is hardly working. The torque makes the difference at that speed.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:56 AM   #23
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Ok I am laughing. Understood. It is ass backwards but the issue with fuel saver cars is that they for some time got incentive money to own them but now there is a separate issue- road use. My thought is that we need to look at a fair way to deal with this. One way might be to require tag renewal reporting of mileage and pay it based on mileage rather than fuel taxes and state levies on fuel. Of course they would have to do away with those. Taxation is so shady. It would seem that more people pay even with more use would even out the cost but somehow it never does. They just want more. Costs go up yes but that should not make it spike like taxes seem to do.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:04 AM   #24
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That MB engine sounds great. You bring up several good points. One is that many people overall have driven less since gas has jumped up. That too contributes to less taxes.

I am sure that we will see rv models that improve some on mpg. Personally I am chomping at the bit for the 2015 f150.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:07 PM   #25
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Rodsterinfl, what a fine piece of research on an important topic!

Thanks for gathering this insightful information. It certainly puts things in perspective for those of us looking for the best fuel mileage while enjoying our passion.

You have reinforced my conviction that a sleek trailer and efficient tow vehicle will return the best combination of flexibility, space and economy for those of us who choose the RV as their mode of travel.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:41 PM   #26
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Granted the information provided by the author of this thread is not necessarily ground breaking information, but, it is thoughtful.

What is more surprising to me is how much I read about people obsessing over things they should have known going in. After all, if you can afford an Airstream, gas consumption shouldn't be a big concern. If some of you were to boon dock a night or two, it would, more than offset the cost of fuel or loss of mpg due to heavy foot, carrying too much crap, or cruising with full water and or holding tanks.

And, who knows you just might find that waking up all alone in the wild is what it's all about.... Or not.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:06 AM   #27
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Fuel Economy is a valid concern as it is one of the few variables subject to change by the driver. It is not quite one-half the cost of vehicle ownership. But, it must be put into perspective to have relevance.

1] Assuming a brand-new tow vehicle over how many years/miles will it be kept?

2] How well matched to the TT is it? A 4WD 4-door pickup is a poor choice where a FWD minivan can do as well and better. For the non full-timer solo miles predominate in vehicle choice specification.

3] Records must be kept to validate choice. All miles, all gallons. The way to understand fuel cost is to convert the price per gallon to cents-per-mile [cpm].

My sig shows my fuel cpm for solo highwy and for towing at $4/gl diesel. This is based on the average of either.

4] Now, a used TV can -- due to purchase price -- have a lower overall cost of ownershio over given miles/years even though fuel cpm is higher than an alternate choice.

5] And, any TV can be made more "fuel efficient" by the driver in solo miles by training. Meeting EPA estimates is a snap, and exceeding the average EPA mpg is do-able by 2-mpg or more.

In other words, it is quite possible to underwrite annual vacation miles by this approach. I can do it, and have done it. And I'm not even in the crowd of guys who are serious about FE. Changing some habits and more careful planning (in solo miles) really pays off.

As to the FIL being swayed by SO SOB's, be sure to explain to him that they need to have their suspension changed right off the bat to independent (torsion arm) for reduction of tripping hazards; and that they will also have a rig that is constantly pushed by winds from all directions, and not more gently pulled by winds passing over and around an A/S type TT. High winds -- natural or man-made -- are a primary cause of loss-of-control accident when they occur.

The non-aero penalty is at least 20% (and there is not even one aero SOB available). As an SOB also means a measurable steering penalty per 100 miles in any set of circumstances expect to tire sooner behind the wheel. Etc. Higher COG is another genuine concern, as is short life span.

One does best by starting with a clean sheet of paper. I see FE as correlate to longest life at lowest cost with highest reliability. Only does an all-aluminum, aero TT meet this requirement on one hand, and only careful spec of TV meet the actual performance of this TT.That the driver also achieves high brake & tire miles/life is part of this.

My 65' rig -- 35' TT and 8k/lb 4-dr pickup -- averages 15-mpg on level Interstate. This falls squarely in the middle of those using my exact truck type with a 28-34' 8-11k TT where 14-16 mpg is reported in over a dozen cases.

My known, average cpm allows me to trip plan quite easily . . . which is rather the point of FE concerns, is it not?

So start not only from a clean sheet in vehicle spec, but be willing to tighten up the nut behind the wheel.

.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:32 AM   #28
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Great list of selection criteria. Per item 3, I have always been an advocate of Bang for Buck (how many miles can you go on a dollar of fuel) as a rating mechanism. Same difference as cpm, just expressed a tad differently. Accounts for the actual cost of fuel (varies by Grade and Type, reg or prem, gas or diesel). My metric allows you to divide a trip distance by B4B and calculate the cost easily. My personal cars range from 5 or so to over 10.

My metric harkens back to this hazy lazy days of HS when we would pool our grass mowing or allowance money to see how far a few Bucks would take us. Back then, it was a full night of cruisising

I also like to use a visualization technique... grab a few rolls of quarters... OK a lot of rolls of quarters. Roll down the window and then throw one out the window for every quarter spent in fuel. For you, it looks like every mile. See how far you can go on your allotted stash.

So it would be interesting to see if Fuelly dot Com can do that conversion... they have all the requisite data. BTW there are some RVs registered there for those interested. Perhaps we need to ask them for a special Airstream Trailer TV classification.
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