Lithium Ion Batteries

[phil1ben]

Has anyone heard a whisper when Airstream might switch to Lithium Ion batteries in their travel trailers? Is 2018 a possibility?

[BoldAdventure]

It's going to be AWHILE.

[AWCHIEF]

I doubt if they ever will. They source the cheapest products they can find. These batteries certainly do not come under that heading and will not for many years.

[lewster]

I wouldn't hold my breath!!🙄


Lew Farber

[wkerfoot]

If you want a trailer with lithium ion batteries, look at the new lithium Bowlus. Priced north of $200,000 and you can use it as a backup battery for your Tesla tow vehicle.

Bill

[phil1ben]

Wow, never heard of a Bowlus before. Went to the website. And many think Airstreams are expensive.

[BAB]

Lithium batteries? They haven't even gone to using high quality AGM's as standard equipment.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by BAB

Lithium batteries? They haven't even gone to using high quality AGM's as standard equipment.

If that ain't the truth

[BAB]

...and at the July Intl Rally in WV, the Airstream guys told us they are still "evaluating" multi-stage charger/converter units. As they continue to "evaluate," I have now replaced the cheap Chinese units in both my old 2012 28' Intl,and my 2015 Classic. As Airstream adds more and more 12V power consumers on the Classic they continue to use barely marginal support for battery components -- and once large numbers of the 17's leave Jackson Center, more and more new owners will discover that having a solid 12V system is ESSENTIAL....or you'll be plugged into a trailer park pedestal or generator to operate your trailer. "We will not make changes, only improvements," does not seem to have been part of the engineering mantra for the electrical components. Oh, and the Classic is the 3d most popular trailer they sell. Ask anyone with a Zip Dee Relax awning what happens if you try to use your 12V awning if you undervolt it. The answer: it won't work....and in the early version of the awnings, they found that undervolting actually burned out the motor.

[68 Overlander]

I've talked to them BAB and they quote virtually word for word what you will here if you call Parallax and ask them why they don't make a multi stage converter. They say and I paraphrase...3 or 4 stage charging for the sake of it is fine but the converter doesn't know what its connected to, a battery or a DC system. It can't differentiate. Well, to their credit, it can't but it does know what voltage looks like and what's applied to it so when you arrive at a new destination, the only thing available to check during first power up is the voltage of the DC system (battery) and if it's low, it needs a boost. Or if you dry camp and wake up to a generator, etc. You also need well above 14 VDC to fully charge the batteries in my testing.
After a few days of no voltage change, you probably put her in storage so lets drop the voltage so we don't gas the idle batteries and condition them once a day or so with a desulfation cycle. Well, duh who'd have thunk it right?

[BAB]

Agree. I assume they must have an EE on staff that runs numbers for how much DC power a trailer is going to need, then supply batteries that can meet (better yet, exceed), what they're going to pull. Those of us with the newer Classic trailers who want them to operate at optimum levels (particularly when you're off the grid), have to factor in electric recliners, electric bed, electric pedestal table, electric stabilizers, electric awning -- and with the '17's add in electric heating pads for the tanks, etc. Based on how I wanted to use my trailer, I opted for 600W of solar panels, a Winegard Travl'r Sat dish, cell amp, wifi amp, icemaker in my freezer, dishwasher, and a bunch of other stuff. Based on how I wanted to use my trailer, I went whole hog and added a Magnum MSH 3012 inverter and four 6V AGM's. Basically, everything works all the time. (And I can run one A/C for about 3 hours on batteries.) I also added a PowerMax PM 4B Converter/Charger (4 stage). Granted, maybe I overkilled it -- but, if you spend well over $120K on a trailer, shouldn't everything work ALL the time? If I could have specified a bunch of these add-ons as factory options I would have. Options at Airstream slow down their production line. I don't see how you can argue against a higher performance multi-stage charger unit that won't boil your batteries and can even de-sulphate if need be. The price point cannot be that much higher -- especially with Thor's ability to purchase across their entire line of RV's.

[dkottum]

Airstream is putting some things in the new Classic models we would not have expected a few years ago, and you pay the price. There is some mistrust of Lithium Ion batteries relative to fires and freezing, I would think this would have to be resolved before we see them.

The only other possibility is another expensive and very successful model such as the Pendleton having them with a price to match. Or a special edition Base Camp (Boondocker?) if it's a home run.

[lewster]

Quality lithium iron phosphate batteries (DO NOT confuse them with the higher density lithium cobalt variety.....which CAN be incendiary) are extremely stable and have less risk of thermal runaway from overcharging than Lifelines have.

One VERY IMPORTANT point that many miss is the quality of the lithium charging system and especially the battery monitor system.

Victron systems have auto-reset battery monitors and cold weather disconnect mechanisms so no Victron lithium will be charged below freezing where damage can occur.

Given that Airstream has seen fit to use single voltage converters for on-grid battery charging when EVERY BATTERY MANUFACTURER specifies multi-stage charging, and has for years ....... I seriously doubt that you will be seeing a lithium option on ANY Airstream product in the foreseeable future.

Also, when investigating a lithium installation, look very carefully at the company's history and longevity. Many now offering 'breakthrough' lithium technology were not around a year or two ago.

In contrast, Victron is a world-wide business that is well known and respected in the marine and alternative energy sectors that has just celebrated their 40th year.


Lew Farber

[lewster]

Also no possibility of out gassing!

[switz]

We have an early AM Solar 600 amp-hour lithium battery (168 pounds versus the 368 pounds of the four Lifeline 6Vdc 300-amp-hour batteries) in our 2014 31' Classic under the front sofa with a Magnum MS2812 inverter charger and eight 100 watt solar panels.

We have an AM Solar 300 amp-hour lithium battery in the 2015 23D under the sofa in front of the street side wheel well with a Magnum hybrid MSH-3012 inverter charger and five 100 watt solar panels. The battery weighs less than the two stock lead acid batteries we removed.

Both lithium batteries can provide up to 90% of their rated amp-hours and be charged with all the power one can provide from either solar, generator or shore power.

One is pushing their luck trying to get 50% of the amp-hour capacity out of lead-acid batteries as well as the Lifeline batteries we removed.

[ghaynes755]

Year and half with my 2015 Classic and solar/Lithium setup done by Marvin Braun of PrecisionRV.

System uses the cells/controllers from Elite Power Solutions. 2x200ah setup under one of the dining area benches. Allows for a compact install, great reporting through an LCD panel. Interfaced flawlessly with the Magnum 3000 Hybrid and BlueSky controllers with AMS panels on the roof.

Only one hiccup, user error, lost a panel mounting t handle on this last trip. Tightened them up, or so I thought, in the spring. Quick stop to buy a stainless cap screw and lock washer.

[switz]

Currently adding the ninth 100 watt AM Solar panel to the roof of the Classic. That will load the Morningstar Tri-Star 60 MPPT solar charge controller to it's working capacity charging the 600 amp-hour lithium battery. This is a matching panel to the other eight AM Solar 100 watt panels already installed.

I have a complete set of spare 100 watt solar panels for each trailer in storage as this smaller size is no longer available.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by switz

Currently adding the ninth 100 watt AM Solar panel to the roof of the Classic. That will load the Morningstar Tri-Star 60 MPPT solar charge controller to it's working capacity charging the 600 amp-hour lithium battery. This is a matching panel to the other eight AM Solar 100 watt panels already installed.

I have a complete set of spare 100 watt solar panels for each trailer in storage as this smaller size is no longer available.

Lou,

Actually, AM Solar is now having their own versions of the GS-100 (now called the SP-100) with the same specifications, dimensions and Sun Power cells built for them with their own label.

You can buy all you want! Don't think they will be running out of stock anytime soon. 😁


Lew Farber

[RanchitaM]

Silverleaf II,

Where did you buy all those extra power devices - an Airstream dealer? And who installed them?

RanchitaM

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by phil1ben

Has anyone heard a whisper when Airstream might switch to Lithium Ion batteries in their travel trailers? Is 2018 a possibility?

Maybe the CAB could shout in their ear...😂

Bob
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