How does restoration add up so fast to such big money?

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Things always add up fast when your having fun.

You know, just like a bar tab.

Andy

Too true . . perfect!

I may not be an Airstream Guy (and try not to be the Vintage Kin Guy from Hell), yet the way I look at any trailer is much the same: it's gonna be $10,000 for starters (past purchase price).

Sway-eliminating hitch $3k
Disc brake conversion $3k
Tires, shocks, led lamp conversions, door, window, gaskets, seals, etc, $1k
Air conditioner, roof vents, etc $1-2k

(with an A/S add in axle replacement costs)

I'm always going to be replacing flooring, window treatment, cushions, mattresses, etc. All that is much in excess of another several thousand.

As a rule of thumb, it's $10k on most anything.

And it looks like yours is another thread I'll need to follow 'cause these Airstream restorers sure seem to have it all together. No lack of learning around here . . finally got to attend a Vintage Rally, and it's the greatest seeing the ingenuity!

[fotochop]

..two years ago I bought an Ugly Duckling '69 Safari in poor cosmetic but not-so-bad structural/systems shape...

.actually I could say I was GIVEN a Safari for purchasing the 2001 V8 Tundra with Reese hitch & bars that had towed it...total purchase price for truck, trailer, hitch, was $10K...I've since put about $3-4K into the trailer (new axle, etc) and a GAZILLION hours of sweat equity and gone camping a bunch of times with my wife and kid...

...Airstreaming doesn't have to be a budget breaker if you were raised to be..."frugal"... (you say "tight"....I say "frugal"..

...oh, and you will need tools...lots and lots of tools....

[Frank's Trailer Works]

honestly I feel guilty for the return on dollar invested. My Airstream is the single best purchase I have ever made. The very first camping trip you will realize that as true, especially if you have kids.

[FC7039]

Why? Why? Why? Add it all up? Think about it? Go. Do. Have fun. Enjoy.

Let's see, house per day cost? water, heat, electric? Worry about this, or don't.

Don't get involved with a restore and worry. If you want to do that, quit your regular job and become a professional restorer.

If you are a home brewer of beer, then you will recognize this. In most of the instructions of home brewing are the instrustions "don't worry, have a homebrew".

Don't worry, restore, camp, travel, put your worries on the shelf.

[triplenet]

Tony,
It's a function of Murphy's Law.
I've done quite a few house and comm. building remodels and have learned to "double the time and double the money" and that will be close to the budget.
It's the unknown problems, details and lack of experience that runs up the cost from original guestimate.
This is our first Airstream project. In it's previous life, ours was a corp. promo trailer, so structure is like new.
The ref., water heater, range, furnace, LP system had been removed to free up floor space. To date we have all mechanical systems installed and operating. I found a mobile RV mechanic that installed all of the above at my shop and billed me for 18 hours.
We wanted to modify the floor plan, so relocated water heater and furnace which added a couple hours time.
All mechanical components are new and upgrades from original equipment.
We are doing the interior design and construction ourselves. That is part of the fun!
One thing I learned is that the interior is very diff to work with due to the curved shape. It's hard to fix a reference point as there few right angles and a level is useless in a trailer. To date, I have made 2 templates so I can replicate partitions. If one had to pay for a shop to do this, I expect it would run into a lot of money real fast!
Our goal, which now seems realistic, is to end up with a near new coach with a custom interior for a few grand less than a comparable stock coach. Plus, we have the fun of working on it!
I wouldn't recommend anyone take on a job such as this as a money maker!
Best wishes,
Bob

[Xbob2]

Originally Posted by Tony S

Tom, do I want to restore an AS? Of course, that is a keen question. I know what that type of pride is all about. I am a tool user by trade. Building furniture you trade the big bucks for less but a good dose of pride. I have built a shop, additions, restored a 1899 house that was Condemned Victorian house in SE Portland, I built a canoe etc. and do enjoy receiving praise. So do I want to restore an Airstream? The quick answer is at this stage I want what I can accomplish, the finish product. I am still contemplating if I should take on another big project. The money does enter the decision as part of the bigger cost benefit analysis.

I am getting into as many trailers as I can. When I bought my tent trailer what I did was go in a lot of new so I would get accustom to that level of quality. It worked out well. What part of the plan is to buy the trailer and sell the tent trailer after to pay for some of the need repairs or issues that will come up.

I don’t own an Airstream yet, but have attached some pictures of my Airstream once removed. A set of draws, on the finishing rack, for a bedroom suite soon on the way to a gallery in the bay area. Which is much like the picture of the proto type dresser. I also posted two other pieces for giggles. One, the entertainment cabinet I posted before showing the unintentional subconscious influence (the arch) of too much viewing of AS. As these product sell the money goes into the AS account. Thanks for your input your advice and experience is well taken. Tony

Tony, with your talent it would be a crime if you didn't restore an old bird. I can't wait to see you create!
Bob

[mutcth]

Originally Posted by Tony S

Tom, do I want to restore an AS? Of course, that is a keen question. I know what that type of pride is all about. I am a tool user by trade. Building furniture you trade the big bucks for less but a good dose of pride.

I'm really glad I asked that - just so that I could see the photos of your work. It's lovely. I'm envious of the many folks who post here with so much talent - and much more patience than I have. I'd almost feel bad if you bought a newer trailer and didn't get to use your skill.

Like you said, it's mostly a matter of if you want another project...especially since there is a lot more work (as you know) beyond cabinetry...

Tom

[Jammer]

Based on what I've read here, and what I've experienced with similar projects (cars, houses, etc.) the cost overruns vis a vis the original plan usually have to do with repairs that were not originally believed to be necessary.

The list of "the usual" mechanical repairs that most older 'streams are going to need is fairly obvious and easy to price -- axles, tires, wheels, batteries, converter, lights. Floor and frame condition is difficult to ascertain without disassembly and there's many an Airstream story that starts off with floor patching and ends with frame-off restoration with the attendant welding, POR15, insulation, plywood, and replacement tanks and plumbing that end up being a part of that.

[hampstead38]

Hmmm....

1. Customization costs more than mass production. Buying "one" of something is more expensive than buying 1,000.

2. All restoration projects have hidden costs. This is one of those immutable laws of the universe like bread falling buttered side down.

3. "Real" time includes thinking about the work, prep and clean up... not just "turning wrenches" or bucking rivets.

4. People who care enough to renovate often want to put in the best possible components. Suburban furnace, Dometic fridge, Fantastic fans, the "best" costs more.

5. Estimating any project is an inexact science. In some cases, you don't know what you'll find until you open things up... and it's officially "too late."

6. Curved interiors take more time than square.

7. Finding parts can be time consuming.

8. There is no perfect plan. Plans change. Change costs money.

9. RV stuff is often more expensive than home stuff... though I can't tell you why.

10. Emotional decisions are more expensive than financials, e.g., marriage, divorce and love affairs with vintage aluminum.

[jjustice]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

They made Airstreams after 1962?

Yes they made them after 1962 and they are not all silver! LOL

[Tony S]

Thanks all for the input. I wait until I know that I know that the AS I am in is the one for me, restoration project or not. Yes, I do hear what you all have said.

I look mainly on Craig's list around the west and on the classified listings. Also thanks for the complements on my work. I am comfortable with that sort of thing. The mechanical etc. well that is something else.

I really want to say the efforts you folks put into responding to all of us is a real righteous thing. Tony Rogue River OR

[VIKING]

Search Tempest - The EASY way to search Craigslist!

If you haven't already found this site, you will probably like this! It's a craigslist shopping tool I look at often.
Enjoy!

Rich the Viking

Originally Posted by Tony S

Thanks all for the input. I wait until I know that I know that the AS I am in is the one for me, restoration project or not. Yes, I do hear what you all have said.

I look mainly on Craig's list around the west and on the classified listings. Also thanks for the complements on my work. I am comfortable with that sort of thing. The mechanical etc. well that is something else.

I really want to say the efforts you folks put into responding to all of us is a real righteous thing. Tony Rogue River OR

[Tony S]

Thanks Rich the Viking I didn't know about that search method it will save me loads of time and give me better coverage. Tony

[Jim & Mitzi]

Originally Posted by mutcth

Tony, here's my take on your most recent questions.

If you buy a 1990s-2000s trailer, you will likely get an inherently solid trailer. There is still the chance that a leak can cause floor rot (they all leak), particularly in the years with OSB flooring. But the chances of major frame rot are slim. There is still stuff to fix, and the likelihood of finding peeling clearcoat. But these are modern trailers with modern electrical systems, most appliances should work (although RV frigs are fussy things), etc.

The same holds true for an 1980s trailer, but the chances of finding some floor rot and frame rot are increasing.

There are loose (and not really official in any way) guidelines to value (see vintageairstream.com) for year and condition for vintage trailers up to 1979. But an insurance company will want either a recent bill of sale from a dealer or an appraisal in order to get an agreed value policy. Of course, if you go the bill of sale route, that doesn't take into account renovations, unless the dealer does the work (which is pricey and might not be the best resource.)

Personally, I also think that there are inherent limits to what the market will bear when it comes time to resell, if you'd want to move on. For example, as much as I (or anyone else) invests in restoring an Argosy, finding someone to pay much over $10k for one will take a while - if it's even possible. A lot of restored trailers, particularly ones restored by their owners, seem to sell for the cost of the initial trailer and materials invested - nevermind the value of your time.

But we're talking a lot about money. Do you WANT to restore a trailer? Would you find it to be a satisfying hobby? It can certainly be a source of great pride and enjoyment.

You should also look at as many trailers, in all conditions and sizes, as possible before deciding on one. Your wants change as you look at more trailers.

Tom

I recently inquired with my insurance carrier for our '73 31' er nad was told that in a total loss situation it was covered for 18K. I wanted to know what my premium was covering $$$ wise. I think thats fair / we keep receipts and take ocass pics / video as we progress in the restoration. Seems fair to me at this point. However if needed I BELIEVE ONE CAN GET A DECLARED AND AGREED VALUE POLICY if appropriate.........JC

[Ganaraska]

Any time you go to rebuild an old house, boat, car, or Airstream it is going to cost a lot more money, and take a lot more time, than you expect. You will run into unexpected problems and things that looked easy will turn out to be far from easy.

If you have ever engaged in such a project you know what I am talking about.

You are far better off, time and money wise, to buy a really good trailer to start with. Buy the best you can find even if it costs a few thousand $$$$ more.

On the other hand if you like a challenge and like to work with your hands there are a lot worse things you could be working on than an Airstream. For one thing you don't have to live in the mess like you do when renovating your house. You can shut the door and go relax in the house when you want to. In addition, when you get done, a good Airstream is always saleable and always has a certain value no matter how old. In other words depreciation is not going to eat up your money.

The only way you can lose a lot of money is to buy a trailer, tear it all apart, and try to sell it half finished or gutted.