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jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 12:54 PM

I don't see any threads relating to Caravans, so I'll post my ?'s here to see if the vast knowledge on these forums can give me some direction.
My wife and I attended a Full Timers seminar in Salem and there was an introduction and invitation by a fellow named Burt (a retired veterinarian) to attend a seminar the next day on the Capetown to Cairo Caravan scheduled in 2009. We could not attend the seminar on this subject, but are very interested in further information on this topic.
His comments were limited on the introduction to this caravan, but here's some tidbits he gave out:
1. This Caravan will re-enact as close as possible the Capetown to Cairo route led by Wally in 1959.....so this will be a 50 year re-enactment.
2. Trailers in the 1975-1980 no longer than 23 ' should be purchased by participants to ship overseas. These evidently have greater ground clearance to handle some of the difficult stretches of road.
3. Trailers will be sold at the end of the caravan and not shipped back to the US.
4. Costs are estimated to be about $100 per day (not sure if this is per person or per trailer)
5. Travel time is estimated to be about 4 months traveling 13-14,000 miles.
6. Corporate sponsorship is reported to include Airstream, National Geographic, and GM.
7. Tow vehicles have not been chosen as yet, but would probably include some sort of heavy duty all terrain vehicle.
8. The route is being negotiated to include the safest and most secure (if that's possible) in today's political climate.
That's all I know at this point. We are just looking into this as a possibility. We spent 3 years in Morocco back in the 70's and are not totally naive as to what to expect on this trip.
If anyone on these forums has further info about this, or contact person(s) I would appreciate it!

TIMEMACHINE · 07-22-2006, 02:56 PM

Good information,

Count us in as two more AS explorers ready to sign up. Thankfully we have a few years to prepare. Cant wait for more details. Who else?

John

AZstreamin · 07-22-2006, 03:16 PM

Now that is a road trip that calls to the adventurous spirit....Man I'd love to do that... it would be wild... 4 months... just think of the things you'd see and stories to tell! Hmmm wait a minute….I think a four year old may be a little young for that trip.. But then again...nothing like starting the spirit young….

3Ms75Argosy · 07-22-2006, 04:42 PM

wow Jim, uh, what's Gigi going to do in that heat? So interesting!!

A couple of thoughts.... I'm surprised AS is talking up the used end of the market.... so you buy a trailer, fix it up, then hope to sell it at the end? Who's marketing those trailers for you? A better thought that I have would be for AS to use their EU line of trailers (lighter for a smaller tow vehicle, NEW, easier fit down the roads (i.e. 7.5ft wide vs. the 8 or 8.5 ft wide of that year vintage), and MUCH easier resale at the end. Both their single axle and tandems would work out length wise.

T.V's - do you bring your own, and then ship it back, or do they supply you with one, or do you bring one and then sell it at the end?

Where are they going to camp this time? Wally was good at just circling up the wagons in the middle of a town or infront of whatever sight there was to be seen at.... I don't think Dickie has that same ability now.

(although, maybe the beret might help?)

I'm not sure why a 22 ft or 19ft CCD wouldn't work... it might actually be cheaper in the long run as far as rehabbing is concerned. I'd just swap out the current Dexter's for a slightly more positive angle axle (although by sight, I think they might have as much clearance as the vintage you're looking at) say 35 degrees? I'd go tandem myself for carring ability and redundency for safety.

Better find that cadillac straight 8!
Wanna take me.... I'll sleep with Gigi!

Marc

jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 05:16 PM

Marc,
We met some friends who went to the C to C seminar in Salem, and they said they are going if it comes together. Their names are Bob and Susan Vandenheuvel (they've moved since the 2005 WBCCI directory came out). They currently live in Lacey, WA at the Airstream Park. But I don't have their address (snail or email) to ask them further information. Susan said she's been on these forums as "30LTD", but I couldn't find her profile or name in the forums directory. I've emailed the Airstream Park to see if I could have their address, but they probably wouldn't give it out due to privacy issues. I've posted a ? on the WBCCI Caravans website, but have not heard back. I thought someone here on the forums might have attended the seminar and would have further information and some contacts I could email.

47WeeWind · 07-22-2006, 05:43 PM

Jim:

The WBCCI Lifetime and VAC member who is spearheading the 2009 Capetown to Cairo Caravan is Bert (and Dot) Kalet, # 6957, an unstoppable bundle of energy from Winston Salem, North Carolina. His mailing address is in the 2006 Directory -- I don't have an email address for him, sorry.

jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 05:56 PM

Fred,
Thanks for the info.........after you gave me his name, I was able to look him up in my Veterinary directory also. You're right......he seems to have amazing energy for his age......80! And I'll bet he's planning on going on this caravan in three years! I'll shoot him a snail mail and see if he's got any more news.....and at least get on his mailing list on further news on how this event is shaping up!
Thanks again!

2airishuman · 07-22-2006, 07:41 PM

and here is a picture of burt.......

he's mentioned in the international thread
is a member of the rbcci....
along with pictures of his modified bambi II.
he is the retired vet that kept 'office hours' for dogs...
his wife is also a retired vet? i think...
and currently does human subject reviews
for medical research...or something along these lines.

now that i know he's involved,
what a great trip this could be
as i recall they have 5 a/s
and he's riden a bicycle across the usa...
more than once...
count me interested!

cheers
2air'

Mark Wiltrakis · 07-22-2006, 08:26 PM

Jim -

Now that I'm a retired guy with a very flexible schedule, this event has hit heavily in the this-could-be-outstanding area of my brain. I would very much like to hear more of this upcoming adventure. This type of caravan sounds much more to my liking, rather than features such as an afternoon visit to the local cheese factory, or to a visit to the Glass Museum. Please keep this thread alive, and thanks for tweaking my interest.

Mark

TIMEMACHINE · 07-22-2006, 08:32 PM

Another thought,

Marc has the right idea, why not a new European model AS? I will go one step further, why not a Special Edition made specifically for the African adventure? Just imagine.....built a little tougher with more clearance, all the units could built to withstand the rigors of the trip and repairs could be carried out easier because of the standardization of the Airstreams. Spare parts and repair equipment would be minimized since they would all be the same models. Same tires, wheels, axles, hitches, bearings, lights, windows, and so on. Let's face it, how many people really want to take a 30 year old AS across 14,000 miles in Africa? Why wouldnt THOR want to do it this way? They win big, sales and reputation.

As far as resale, I would imagine that these Airstreams would fetch a good price in the EU considering their rarity and most important, their history. Who knows, maybe the folks in North America might want to buy a piece of history.

And more....if GM is a corporate sponser, what a great PR campaign for them.....they certainly have enough TVs to do the job. And as with the Special Edition Airstream, standardization of the TVs make the whole thing a smoother operation. The support for the caravan could be standardized saving time and money.

Auto racing sells lots of cars, and the manufacturers have HUGE budgets to gain customer awareness and loyalty. Why not capitalize on the marketing value of this trip?

And for those who would discount using new models for this trip, I wasnt there, but how many decade old or older Airstreams were on the 1959 caravan? And for those who might think that it would raise the cost, I would argue that in fact, with the proper approach, the cost could be much less.

Does anybody agree?

John

3Ms75Argosy · 07-22-2006, 09:03 PM

sorry Jim, I didn't mean to highjack your thread - but I think this caravan would be a great idea if done well.

Honestly, I'd think new for many reasons - and I'm not sure why AS wouldn't support this idea. If National Geographic would be coming along shooting photos, I'd think they'd want newer trailers without all the peeling clearcoats of the older ones in the shots. Less chance for breakage too.

I could see Chevy pitching in some Sub's or Tahoes for the event - I'm sure they'd sell well over in the Middle East.

I wonder what kind of daily mileage you'd do? It didn't seem like the old caravans went too far each day, as the roads were so poor. I'd think that those roads are better off now.

Please post more info when you get it! Although the four months would seem to appeal more to the retired set, I'd like to dream about this event.

If they need medical crew (which, really, wouldn't be such a bad idea - I'd bring IV equipement, a defibulator, 12 EKG machine, dressings and splints...) - I'd gladly sign up for a small stipend!

Marc

Druupy · 07-22-2006, 09:18 PM

Maybe this will rain on your parade, but:

You couldn't get me to go to that part of the world without,

3 companies of rangers,

gunship air support, and

realtime satelite video and infared of the road ahead and surrounding area.

That happens to be the part of the world where "bandits" shoot rocket propelled grenades at luxury ocean liners.

Bambi ain't bullit proof.

jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 09:31 PM

John & Marc......I agree......that new models would be more in the interest of AS and by the time old units are re-furbished, the cost difference may be negligable. I suspect (not entirely sure about this) the impetus is coming from WB'ers (like Burt) who see this as a world event and may want to:
1. make history proving that the world can peacefully coexist and can be a win-win situation for all concerned.
2. give the WBCCI a shot in the arm (no pun intended) to help their membership numbers.
3. say if 30 year old AS's were used, what does that say about their quality, design, and construction.

There may be some issues about shipping back trailers that have, insects, noxious plants, bacteria, etc. that potentially could be a threat to our Country.......just a thought.
Yes Marc......a mobile medical team would be great to have along........it would ease my mind a bit! Anyone on the forums up on their tropical diseases?

2airishuman · 07-22-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druupy

That happens to be the part of the world where "bandits" shoot rocket propelled grenades at luxury ocean liners. Bambi ain't bullit proof.

nahh druupy no rain, just an obvious issue. i'm sure there are security issues and threats all along the route....and national geographic can catch it all on film!

but by the time this happens, perhaps they will be out of grenades!

sure sudan is a problem area, but there is a lot of ground between the southern and northern african borders....

here's a link to a map of the more famous route...there was once a transcontinential railway planned but....too many nations and issues...

http://www.africatravel.co.za/Africa...cairo-map.html

seems there are several travel companies that do this route with groups...

as to the trailer issue...70s models are narrower, lighter, inexpensive and plentyful...one of the things beatrice did do was ramp up production and sell more units in the 70s. these can be had for 5k or so now and inexpensively prepped for duty....
having new units would be nice but consider what is essential...a place to sleep, a cooking stove, heat and water...lots of water...
add a few modern touches like solar panels and a frappuccino machine!

in fact a 23 argosy would be great to take, it would blend in better with the sand!

cheers
2air'

Melody Ranch · 07-22-2006, 10:27 PM

I have worked and lived in many parts of Africa. Namibia, Angola, Zaire, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Sudan, Chad and Libya. Never got to Egypt. Not a chance in Hell a Caravan of "Enlightened Adventurers" in an Airstream could do this proposed trip in the World of today....it is not 1950.....Hemingways' Africa is gone. There is a wartime setting in all these countries, general lawlessness and a Cultural divide most have never experienced. Even in Zimbabwe today it would be a challenge.Keep the pink flamingos and blue beanies at home....sip your gin and tonic and plan your next Caravan across Columbia and Bolivia.
Yea, I know....pessemistic, grumpy, no adventure, old man!

cosmotini · 07-22-2006, 10:42 PM

How about a Chicago to Cairo (IL) caravan? We could do that!

TIMEMACHINE · 07-22-2006, 10:57 PM

Jim and all,

I hope this isnt considered highjacking a thread. My intent was to follow the theme with a twist initiated by Marc. If done correctly, this could be done in a first class fashion. Corporate sponsership could finance almost everything. The possible corporate sponser list is without end. I believe that we could develop a plan which would have corporate sponsers bidding to participate.

Besides the sponsership from GM or Ford to supply for TVs.

Oil companies such as British Petroleum or Shell would supply fuel.

Tire companies such as Goodyear or Michelin would supply tires.

Airlines such as Virgin or American would supply air transportation.

Coke or Pepsi would supply fluids. (they both have water labels)

FedEx or UPS would supply logistics support.

Are you getting the idea. The list goes on as far as one could imagine.
Even financial institutions could get in on the act.

As for the WBCCI, wouldnt this be a great way to boost new sales for Airstream via the club, after all, isnt that the reason that Wally really started the "Club". Among other talents, he was a great promoter.

As a MAL, the forum is the best way for me to add my 2 cents.

John

jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Ranch

I have worked and lived in many parts of Africa. Namibia, Angola, Zaire, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Sudan, Chad and Libya. Never got to Egypt. Not a chance in Hell a Caravan of "Enlightened Adventurers" in an Airstream could do this proposed trip in the World of today....it is not 1950.....Hemingways' Africa is gone. There is a wartime setting in all these countries, general lawlessness and a Cultural divide most have never experienced. Even in Zimbabwe today it would be a challenge.Keep the pink flamingos and blue beanies at home....sip your gin and tonic and plan your next Caravan across Columbia and Bolivia.
Yea, I know....pessemistic, grumpy, no adventure, old man!

MelodyRanch
Yes..... but you are here to tell your story! That's got to be worth something! Were you so young that you didn't realize what danger you were in while in these areas?
While living in Morocco for 3 years, we experienced two coup attempts on King Hassan's life originating from the Moroccan base where we lived(joint USAF/USN base to covertly provide communications with the 6th fleet in the Med.....while training Moroccans.....also served as a Moroccan Army Officer School)! I won't go into more detail, except to say we were scared.....but survived!

As to pink flamingos and blue beanies......we don't own any.....and we certainly don't drink gin and tonic!
And how old of a grumpy old man are ya?

2airishuman · 07-22-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmotini

How about a Chicago to Cairo (IL) caravan? We could do that!

hi cosmo.....
don't they have shoulder lauched grenades in chitown now too?

now that's a location i would be scared to pull my airstream!

how about seattle to cabo....it would be hard to get lost...
as added adventure we could take the baja ferry over to mexico main land and visit the 7-8 gm factories while working back to texas...
for those that don't want to drive baja pulling a trailer, there is a service that will load'em on flat cars and rail them down...or back.

cheers
2air'

melody ranch,
you are of course correct.
crossing borders would be the easiest part....
lots of militia from every flavor everywhere...
and hiv in every villiage...
i'v done medical missionary work and
hand many machine guns in my face at every turn....
while i only got malaria and dengue fever and typhod fever...
i came close to getting 'lead fever' many times....
seeing this/living in this
drains everything from ya....
even if not catching the latest bug.
ebola virus, marbury agent and others make the bird flu look minor...
anybody want to eat monkey meat?
anybody wanna piss off the guy offering you the monkey meat?

perhaps they need to work on a playstation2 version of the trip...
we could all go then!

with the right size party and surrounding folks (geographic, red cross, a foriegn legion or 2 packs of mercenaries....it might work...there are good will groups and small travel parties making this trek, walking, cycling and so on...
but many bail out b4 the final destination...

anyone thinking about ths route,
just needs to look at the map i posted,
and log on to the government websites
for the details, restrictions and issues in each of those countries....

it is impressive and scary to read what the state department says for 'travelers'....in this area...

2air'

jordandvm · 07-22-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

Jim and all,

I hope this isnt considered highjacking a thread.

Not at all.....in fact without more of Burt's facts we can plan this thing ourselves.........how about an "AS forums" C to C Caravan!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

My intent was to follow the theme with a twist initiated by Marc. If done correctly, this could be done in a first class fashion. Corporate sponsership could finance almost everything. The possible corporate sponser list is without end. I believe that we could develop a plan which would have corporate sponsers bidding to participate.

Besides the sponsership from GM or Ford to supply for TVs.

Oil companies such as British Petroleum or Shell would supply fuel.

Tire companies such as Goodyear or Michelin would supply tires.

Airlines such as Virgin or American would supply air transportation.

Coke or Pepsi would supply fluids. (they both have water labels)

FedEx or UPS would supply logistics support.

Are you getting the idea.

Yup! Maybe Starbucks too......I need my frappicinos!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

The list goes on as far as one could imagine.
Even financial institutions could get in on the act.

As for the WBCCI, wouldnt this be a great way to boost new sales for Airstream via the club, after all, isnt that the reason that Wally really started the "Club". Among other talents, he was a great promoter.

As a MAL, the forum is the best way for me to add my 2 cents.

John

John,
Just keep up your MAL membership and you'll be eligible for this one......after all....."caravans are WBCCI's best kept secrets" ........a quote from a caravan seminar I went to in Salem!
Seriously, you've brought out some great points.......just have to sell them to Coporate America.........and convince the Governments of Countries we travel thru to provide all the firepower that "Druupy" referred to in the previous post to ensure safe passage!