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Old 11-06-2014, 10:27 PM   #15
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Even if metal tire stems were needed, so what. Spend a very few bucks, remove the tires and install them, You are good for a long time.

If you opt for internal sensors, you will have to take the tire off the wheel to install them AND anytime a sensor malfunctions.

That would annoy me.

If I were to have a malfunction, I would simply swap the bad sensor with the one on the spare, and still be monitoring all road wheels. It would take all of about 90 secs to do that.

if you feel you want or need metal stems, they are not expensive

Ken
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ag&Au View Post
I would much more inclined to respect what you say if:

You presented any evidence whatsoever.

You bring forth any reference not from some RV forum that in anyway that adds facts instead of what I believe to be conjecture and hearsay.

If what you say is true, why have I logged so much time and so many miles, a lot of it at speeds in excess of 60 MPH, with no broken stems and no marks on my wheels. I have ten sensors installed. I monitor all 8 road wheels and both spares. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL THAT YOU SO CONFIDENTLY PREDICT

When I am not towing, I still have sensors on the truck and drive at speeds well in excess of 60 MPH. I also drive in the snow and ice when those build up on the sensors.

Perhaps I'm a pathological liar.

There are people on these forums who make decisions on what they read here. It to me is irresponsible to post things that you cannot personally provide evidence to support. Perhaps at some time in the past this may have possibly have been a problem, if so, that is not the case now.

If you post things that you have not experienced yourself, I suggest you preface them with:

"I don't know, but I've been told."

Ken

P.S. when I drive, I've yet to see anyone outside pressing on my tire stems with their finger.
Common sense tells me Howie is right more often than not about the valve stems. you are correct that alot of people take these forums to heart about the info presented here. Because you have gotten by with no problems why should everyone believe the gospel according to Ag&Au. To error on the side of overkill is not a bad thing especially if you are along way from home and in the middle of nowhere. I tow for a living hauling new and vintage campers so I can't afford to break down from something simple as a valve stem problem. Because you are adamant about no metal valve stems for you someone may read that and have a problem in the middle of nowhere. That is part of the problem with this forum alot of statements by many posters are made just hear themselves type.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:45 PM   #17
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Common sense tells me Howie is right more often than not about the valve stems. you are correct that alot of people take these forums to heart about the info presented here. Because you have gotten by with no problems why should everyone believe the gospel according to Ag&Au. To error on the side of overkill is not a bad thing especially if you are along way from home and in the middle of nowhere. I tow for a living hauling new and vintage campers so I can't afford to break down from something simple as a valve stem problem. Because you are adamant about no metal valve stems for you someone may read that and have a problem in the middle of nowhere. That is part of the problem with this forum alot of statements by many posters are made just hear themselves type.
I am not adamant about no metal valve stems. I think they are certainly as good as the rubber coated ones. What I am adamant about is is people with no experience with external TPMS sensors conjecturing or parrotting information they have read elsewhere as absolute fact. According to the manufacturer of the TMPS I use, I'm am not just "getting by". I am conforming with his recommendations.

If you will note Howie did not say he recommended metal stems because they were a step up or better. He stated they were absolutely necessary and all the terrible things that will happen to anyone who doesn't use them . I and many others are living proof that's not true.

I find your last statement, since it appears directed at me, offensive. You don't know me or my intentions. As a matter of fact since you have presented nothing other than your opinions; no experience, or facts about the subject matter, perhaps you should think about whether that may apply to you. Do you have any experience with RV TPMS systems or valve stems that you would like to share that may help the OP?

Ken
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:07 AM   #18
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Fwiw, I use the Tire minder system and it has worked well. I'm very happy with it. It uses externally mounted cap transmitters. This is an exert from the manual:

"As the TireMinder transmitter only weighs 0.3 oz, it will not affect tire balance. As well, due to their light weight, they may be used on wheels equipped with rubber valve stems."
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:21 AM   #19
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Fwiw, I use the Tire minder system and it has worked well. I'm very happy with it. It uses externally mounted cap transmitters. This is an exert from the manual:

"As the TireMinder transmitter only weighs 0.3 oz, it will not affect tire balance. As well, due to their light weight, they may be used on wheels equipped with rubber valve stems."
Thank you. If one looks up the Tire Minder and The Hawkshead unit that I use, they will note that they appear to be identical. I am convinced that the only difference is the logo on the screen at boot up. If I am ever at the same place with someone with a tireminder and time on our hands, I would like to see if they will recognize each other's sensors.

Ken
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:18 AM   #20
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Boys, boys, boys, you're starting a mud fight in a thread started by a moderator, for heavens sake! Behave yourselves!

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Old 11-07-2014, 08:46 AM   #21
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I attempted to post a response last night from my I Phone but it was not accepted. Seeing that my experience has come into such question I will take photos of my trailer later today and demonstrate the stem deflection that caused the problem that prompted my original comment.

To continue the discussion on TPMS I will add an additional comment. The units have a limited transmission range. With that in mind I suggest that once installed you uncouple the trailer and drive forward about 10 ft. At point test each sensor on the trailer by unscrewing it till you hear air leak. That should cause it to send a signal forward to the receiver. If you do not get a signal consider buying the remote antenna that the better systems offer to extend he range. My Excursion and 34 ft. trailer required the antenna.

You should also be aware that about 3 years back the Chinese shipped some 6,000,000 rubber stems here that failed to the touch of the air hose. They would brake off at the base with some failing just from the centrifugal forces presented at higher road speeds. Oh yes I did have experience with 2 of these failing on my daughters trailer.

Last nights attempted post.

I removed the 10 sensors on my rig because of marks on my aluminum wheels on my trailer and the steel wheels on my truck. Another member in my unit marked his new aluminum wheels in just 150 miles. He converted to metal stems. I will install metal stems on my next tire purchase.


If you still have the sensors on your trailer try the test I mentioned.

I have no vested interest in my post here other than to aid those that ask a question I have experience with. If there are others that have differing experiences than we may open a discussion.

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Old 11-07-2014, 08:56 AM   #22
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All I know is when I had rubber/metal high pressure stems, I had marks on all four wheels and 3 of the four split right at the sealing surface with the wheel. I have external sensors. Here's what Doran has to say about it:


"Tires and valve stems should be inspected thoroughly prior to installation of the system to
ensure they are in good condition and inflated properly. It is not uncommon to find valve stems
that need replacing when installing the 360RV system. Doran recommends that rubber valve
stems be replaced with metal stems. Some rubber stems have been found to be inferior and
could fail prematurely."


Page 1 here:
http://www.doranmfg.com/PDF/Doran360RVmanual.pdf
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:00 AM   #23
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Good input Howie. What TPM system are you referring to? I've seen some pretty chunky/heavy transmitters and with some I would also be worried about the mass bending rubber stems. The point of my post (and likely Ken's) is that there are different systems so a blanket statement of having to use metal stems is not completely accurate.....depends on the particular system.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #24
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We bought a TPMS a few years ago and found it gimmicky and another distraction in the cockpit. So when we put 16" Michelin tires on our Airstream that gave us great reliability I decided not to use a TPMS.

There is a good chance a sudden blowout may cause trailer damage even with a TPMS. I always check the tires at each fuel stop anyway. And we have insurance in the highly unlikely event a Michelin 16" LT might blow out and damage the Airstream.

The upgrade to Sendel 16" wheels and Michelin LT tires cost us $1500 after selling the originals. A new TPMS is around $300, and many need new sensors at about $50 each every few years. I don't think TPMS adds any safety, and little to reliability.

Not a recommendation and I don't care to argue the point, just another way of looking at it.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:28 AM   #25
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From the TST website.

Do I need special valve stems?
No, you do not need special valve stems, but you do need commonly available metal valve stems.

The added weight of the sensor on a rubber valve stem could cause problems that will be avoided by using metal valve stems.

Most motorhomes and commercial transport vehicles come equipped with metal valve stems. If you do need metal valve stems, they are not expensive; a recent customer had 6 valve stems replaced on a 30’ gooseneck racing trailer for $36. They are available and can be quickly installed by any tire dealer.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:38 AM   #26
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So, what have we learned? It depends on the system....some are lighter/heavier than others. Read the particular instructions and make a decision.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:19 AM   #27
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The first picture shows the gap between the sensor and the wheel. The second shows the point at which the sensor will contact the wheel. This repeated contact and hammering will crack the clear coat on the wheel and cause that clear coat to start to fail about that point. The third picture is the extended antenna I mentioned that may be necessary with larger rigs.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:02 AM   #28
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The first picture shows the gap between the sensor and the wheel. The second shows the point at which the sensor will contact the wheel. This repeated contact and hammering will crack the clear coat on the wheel and cause that clear coat to start to fail about that point. The third picture is the extended antenna I mentioned that may be necessary with larger rigs.
That also shows a sensor at least twice as bulky and heavy looking as Hawkshead or Tireminder.

Obviously there is no one answer for all situations and no blanket statement that can be made that you always or never need metal stems.

THerefor I would recommend doing as I did, and follow the instructions from the TPMS manufacturer.

I would be interested in knowing which brands have the large bulky sensors.

It would also be nice if the term "metal stems" were defined. According to DTC I have metal stems, with rubber coating. What I get from reading Howie's posts is that he says "they are not metal stems unless they are the chrome plated bolt in type".

Ken
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