Airstream for use in South America

[perryg114]

Just about all electronic devices are powered by DC internally. The AC is converted to DC and the DC is used to power the electronics. I don't think 50Hz is going to hurt anything. I would replace everything with locally bought electronics that run off of 50Hz 220V.

Perry

[jcl]

I think we've come full circle.

Using simple step-down transformers, we used our North American TVs, radios, VCRs, computers, printers, routers, kitchen appliances (including those with AC motors), fans, sewing machine and serger, small power tools, and so on, for three years in Chile. They all worked great. Dozens of other ex-pat families were doing the same where we were. Mains frequency never mattered. TV is the same standard in Chile.

Aage, bencina is gasoline as the OP noted. Gas Licuado is bottled gas aka LPG.

The shore power problem is not just a technical one for the Chilean electrician. The lack of heavier duty circuits in Chilean construction means that it will likely be difficult to find anything to plug into when camping. We had one house there that had six or so circuits, others were similar. We were in the north of Chile, no central heat, gas for hot water and cooking. The design needs to start with what powers the trailer up to the shore power plug, then knowing the capability of that circuit the air conditioner question may be moot and the entire rest of the trailer could be run off one portable transformer purchased for a few hundred dollars. That was my original thought, anyway.

I looked up camping hookups in Chile and found a travel log by a North American who mentioned that he commonly found plug ins at Chilean campgrounds, but they were suitable only for lighting. He used a 1500 watt transformer to the camper, and noted that the only appliance that worked differently was the microwave (it didn't heat water as efficiently).

Jeff

[jcl]

New question: What is the availability of dump stations?

[perryg114]

You might want to consider solar power and that way you can live off the grid. Since your power is not very plentiful and as universally available here. When you get plug in power you can use that to charge your batteries. I don't know what you would do about AC. If you camp at high altitudes, you may not need AC. I know there are a lot of mountains in Chile.

Perry

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by jcl

New question: What is the availability of dump stations?

While RV culture in here is pretty much zero, there´s a huge tent culture. There´s a lot of national parks, from desert in the north to rainforest in the south and the pacific ocean all along in the west. It´s pretty common to find dump stations on these places. Sometimes 220v/10-15A access. When camping in the wild, of course there´s nothing. No power, no garbage disposal facility, no security. The wild !. In these cases it´s pretty common that you carry a lot of trash bags with you and carry them back until you find a place where to drop them.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by perryg114

You might want to consider solar power and that way you can live off the grid. Since your power is not very plentiful and as universally available here. When you get plug in power you can use that to charge your batteries. I don't know what you would do about AC. If you camp at high altitudes, you may not need AC. I know there are a lot of mountains in Chile.

Perry

I was considering a Honda 3Kw portable generator for those places where there´s no power available. As I still ride dirt bikes, I´m used to be carrying gas around in the track. Not sure if 3Kw will be enough though.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by jcl

It seems to me you should plan to change the regulator and attachment points and find a way of securing the new tanks.

Jeff

Me too. I´m glad the gas is the same !!!!. Also machining something to attach the local gas tanks it´s a great idea.

Yes customs in here can be really annoying. I´m used to deal with them as I´m importing cinema equipment all the time. Try to explain them what´s a 18Kw HMI bulb took me a day or two.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by perryg114

I don't see why you can't make a simple pig tail that has the US male plug on one end and your female plug on the other end.

Perry

That´s a good idea. If I can´t change the sockets (I don´t see why would´t I) then US male plug > local female plug would do the trick.

[perryg114]

3000 W should be enough if it can handle full load. The AC if you use it takes about 15A at 120V. The rest of the stuff it can handle just fine. Most folks use two Honda 2000W units ganged together to run the AC. The are pricey though.

Perry

Originally Posted by Cocoy

I was considering a Honda 3Kw portable generator for those places where there´s no power available. As I still ride dirt bikes, I´m used to be carrying gas around in the track. Not sure if 3Kw will be enough though.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by jcl

From the shore power connection. 30 amp or 50 amp service.

Mmm that´s not good. We have 10amp - 15 amp access here mostly. But my understanding is that a 240v TV will draw half as many amps as the same TV but in the 120v version. Something like 30A@120V = 15A@240V. So having access to our common 15amp 220v service might be enough.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by Aage

If you convert the wiring so as to be able to plug the coach into local (Chile) power, any 220V appliances can be plugged into the AC electrical outlets in the coach, provided you change over the socket style to Chile sockets.

Here in North America RVs use LP gas, which is "Liquid Propane". 'bencina' sounds like Benzine, which is not the same thing.

See above for "plug outlets". It does occur to me though that any TVs in the coach will not, to my knowledge, work on 220V (with or without adapters), and so will also have to be changed out.

This will easily be sorted by a local Chilean electrician IMHO. You could contact one now to see what they think about this whole idea.

You mean the internal wiring or the external connectors for the service AC ?.
Doesn´t the breakers needs to be changed as well ?.

I´m. As soon as I get an answer from Airstream to see what they are willing to do from the factory and what not, I´ll talk to my guy. When building our generators and power distribution system we have a lot of thinking and designing.

Haha, you misunderstood me. Bencina is the same as your US Gas. What most cars run with. I was asking Jeff if our "liquid gas" (what the BBQ uses and comes in tanks) was the same as your "liquid propane".

Yes, changing the TV for a 220v one is not such a big deal. Those are all VESA mounted and below 30" they are not as expensive as they use to be.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by perryg114

In the USA there is a black wire (hot), white wire (neutral), and a ground wire. The neutral and ground are connected together but the green wire is used for safety to ground any metal enclosure so if a hot wire touches you won't get electrocuted. When you wire to 220V you need to make sure you don't get the hot and neutral reversed.

On the many item we´ve imported from the US that offer universal power (110-240v) we just need to replace the plug. It does´t matter where you put the hot and neutral as long as you leave the center pin for the ground. That makes me think changing the internal wiring of the Airstream might no be necessary.

Here´s a pict of a male chilean plug.

ENCH MACHO CONVER 10A C/T NEGÂ*-Â*Sodimac.com

Originally Posted by perryg114

I would get rid of all the US electronic toys and replace them with locally bought stuff. A new trailer will have more gadgets that will need to be replaced than an old trailer.

That´s my goal !. Just need to get 220v power on the sockets !.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by Aage

If it is a 12VDC TV set, then luckily, Chile uses the NTSC broadcast system, so it will work off-air.

Yes we are NTSC in here. Not sure where to find a 12v DC TV though…we have professional monitors that can be switched from AC 220v or DC 12v. But they are small and expensive for an RV...

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by jcl

I think we've come full circle.

Using simple step-down transformers, we used our North American TVs, radios, VCRs, computers, printers, routers, kitchen appliances (including those with AC motors), fans, sewing machine and serger, small power tools, and so on, for three years in Chile. They all worked great. Dozens of other ex-pat families were doing the same where we were. Mains frequency never mattered. TV is the same standard in Chile.

I´m a little bit confused here…are the wall outlets on the Airstream 12v or 120v standard ?. I assume 120v. Also I understand the AC is 120v, as well as the TV and bluray. Refrigerator 12v ?. Microwave ?.

Originally Posted by jcl

Aage, bencina is gasoline as the OP noted. Gas Licuado is bottled gas aka LPG.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by jcl

The shore power problem is not just a technical one for the Chilean electrician. The lack of heavier duty circuits in Chilean construction means that it will likely be difficult to find anything to plug into when camping.

Actually it´s pretty common to find 15amp@220v circuits in here. And (might be wrong) but should´t 15amp@220v = 30amp@120v ?.

Originally Posted by jcl

The design needs to start with what powers the trailer up to the shore power plug, then knowing the capability of that circuit the air conditioner question may be moot and the entire rest of the trailer could be run off one portable transformer purchased for a few hundred dollars. That was my original thought, anyway.

Exactly. And that´s either 10amp@220v or 15amp@220v. Modern house have 20amp@220v on some circuits. 10A and 15A are pretty common.

Originally Posted by jcl

I looked up camping hookups in Chile and found a travel log by a North American who mentioned that he commonly found plug ins at Chilean campgrounds, but they were suitable only for lighting. He used a 1500 watt transformer to the camper, and noted that the only appliance that worked differently was the microwave (it didn't heat water as efficiently).

You mean those plugs would only be enough for the lights of the trailer and that he used a 1.500w transformer for that. So when using the microwave all lights must be turned off ?. Or that he used a 1.500w generator for the microwave ?.

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by perryg114

3000 W should be enough if it can handle full load. The AC if you use it takes about 15A at 120V. The rest of the stuff it can handle just fine. Most folks use two Honda 2000W units ganged together to run the AC. The are pricey though.

Perry

I believe 15@120v = 7.5@220v so that means 1.7kw for the AC. Probably 2Kw considering the peak draws. A 3Kw should be fine. Yes they are price, as everything that´s not made in China these days !.

Also the AC would have to be rewired to the Honda generator (plus changing the AC to a 220v model)...

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Cocoy

I´m a little bit confused here…are the wall outlets on the Airstream 12v or 120v standard ?. I assume 120v. Also I understand the AC is 120v, as well as the TV and bluray. Refrigerator 12v ?. Microwave ?.

Wall outlets are 120 v, but there aren't many of them. Some installed accessories are plugged into some of them, eg TV.

Originally Posted by Cocoy

Actually it´s pretty common to find 15amp@220v circuits in here. And (might be wrong) but shouldn't 15amp@220v = 30amp@120v ?.

You can find 15 amp 220 v circuits, but many were 10 amp in my experience. The issue is that you need to find a 15 amp circuit with nothing else on it, everywhere you camp. That is what the problem will be. You can modify your home wiring for a special plug, but you don't need that much power when you are parked at home, you are typically just charging batteries and using lights. You can wire a 220 v 15 amp special plug for your genset if that is going to be your only power source.

Originally Posted by Cocoy

You mean those plugs would only be enough for the lights of the trailer and that he used a 1.500w transformer for that. So when using the microwave all lights must be turned off ?. Or that he used a 1.500w generator for the microwave ?.

The plugs used by the traveller I read about, provided by the campsites, were only sufficient for lighting and microwave. They may have been shared circuits with other campers. He didn't have AC. He used a single 1500 w transformer and ran the entire camper off that. He noted that in his experience the microwave was less efficient at 50 hz than 60 hz, but that may also have been due to voltage drops in the circuit, not just the frequency. I don't know.

What I was saying about using a single transformer is that you could install one and then run the trailer on 120 since everything in there already works on 120. It is only one device to purchase. It may or may not run the AC, but you will find out soon enough. If you leave the 120 V circuits alone and add a few 220 volt outlets at strategic locations for your portable appliances, feeding them with a tee off the shore power connection, you could then use some local devices in the trailer that weren't dual voltage. Also, if you are going to be using a generator all the time anyway, you could use a 120 volt generator and just put a small stepup transformer in for the few 220 volt plug outlets you want. When you add up all the changes to the trailer it may get costly. Having a dual voltage trailer (and you just decide which devices to run on each voltage) would be simpler than the paradigm that says you take a 120 volt trailer and change everything to run on 220 v because that is what Chile uses. Especially when you are unlikely to find shore power connections everywhere you want to camp.

Jeff

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by jcl

What I was saying about using a single transformer is that you could install one and then run the trailer on 120 since everything in there already works on 120. It is only one device to purchase. It may or may not run the AC, but you will find out soon enough. If you leave the 120 V circuits alone and add a few 220 volt outlets at strategic locations for your portable appliances, feeding them with a tee off the shore power connection, you could then use some local devices in the trailer that weren't dual voltage. Also, if you are going to be using a generator all the time anyway, you could use a 120 volt generator and just put a small stepup transformer in for the few 220 volt plug outlets you want. When you add up all the changes to the trailer it may get costly. Having a dual voltage trailer (and you just decide which devices to run on each voltage) would be simpler than the paradigm that says you take a 120 volt trailer and change everything to run on 220 v because that is what Chile uses. Especially when you are unlikely to find shore power connections everywhere you want to camp.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I think you are absolutely right. So far the big 220>110v big transformer and a +3kw portable generator seems the best idea. This way i don´t need to replace the AC. Already contacted Domenic and they don´t build 220v or universal units.

Rewiring a separate circuit just for the wall sockets so they can be plug to a external 220v source sounds great :

- Circuit 1 : external 220v power > 220v to 110v transf. > everything except wall plugs remains 120v factory standard.

- Circuit 2 : external 220v power > directly to the wall sockets circuit (cut and separated from the 120v circuit 1) > 220v wall outlets inside trailer.

The question for circuit 2 is where these internal wall sockets wiring come together...

Please let me know what you guys think.

Regards

[Cocoy]

BTW, just found out that you can connect two Honda EU 30 generator in order to get the performance of a 6kw generator. You may ask why not get a 6Kw generator in the first place (which is a little bit cheaper) ?. Well if it´s cold you might not need the AC and 6Kw will be too much. Also the 6Kw weights about 120kg (260 lbs) so it would be almost impossible for one person to move it in case you want it apart from the trailer (noise). The 3Kw is about half weight.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/Cont...llel-cable.jpg

[perryg114]

Do you need 6000W? 3000W should be about right even with the AC.

Perry

[Cocoy]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Do you need 6000W? 3000W should be about right even with the AC.

Perry

Not really sure. Surely I can start with 3kw and if it´s not enough then get a second one and tie them in parallel.