Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-16-2007, 11:48 PM   #43
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
Euro frames

Thanks 2Air for all the info. Please keep us informed. I hope these new idea come stateside on newer models.
Gary
__________________

__________________
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 12:12 PM   #44
2 Rivet Member
 
2000 25' Excella
Dunlap , Illinois
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 35
Euro Frames

Much issue has been made about Airstream not balancing brake drums. If you refer to post 40, you will notice in the view of the brake drum with no wheel attached that there is a ground relief on the shoulder of the drum. Looks like a balancing operation performed in a location least affecting the hoop strength of the drum! I will bet they are balanced.

Saddletramp
__________________

__________________
Saddletramp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 12:39 PM   #45
Rivet Master
 
2002 19' Bambi
Lafayette , California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
sergei...

i'm no engineer, but it looks like the main frame rails are slotted from the bottom side...

and the axles have a small section of rail that matches the main rail Z pattern...

so the axle plates slip into the slot, just outside the frame section...

then they are bolted together in 4-5 places per side...

here's some zoomed pix that may help, open each and enlarge for a better view...

cheers
2air'

and bpw has a website which may contain schematics and other useful info, it's a BIG company...BPW | Bergische Achsen KG
For those who hope Airstream might move to a galvanized frame in the US, it is probably worth considering whether or not there is a US manufacturer Airstream could go to for such a product. BPW/Bergische Achsen KG is a large company making many products other than trailer frames and axles and it has strong competition (such as AL-KO Kober AG) in that field. Also, heavy zinc plating on many products has long been standard practice in Europe which means that there are many companies which can do that plating. Having the frame in pieces makes the plating process much easier because the pieces are smaller than a complete frame. You can imagine trying to plate a complete 34' frame.

For those who hope for the foam-cored floor to come here, please note that the outside parts of the sandwich appear to be plywood. I happen to be a fan of good plywood, but that sandwich material would have many of the same problems we associate with US Airstream floors. In addition, there could be supplier problems. The US, in contrast to Europe, seems to have fewer manufacturers of such specialty products.
__________________
Tim A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 01:14 PM   #46
Rivet Master
 
2007 25' Classic
Hydes
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 705
The problem with hot dip galvanizing a completed frame is potential warping and twisting. The new frame for my Series 111 Landrover build was hot dipped galvanized. Some of the best galvanized utility and horse trailers in the world ( in my opinion) are made by a U.K. company :Ifor Williams
Attached Images
 
__________________
craftsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2008, 12:22 PM   #47
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Buitenpost , Frl
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
I'm from the Netherlands and have been reading this thread with interest.
I have a Dethleffs trailer that is made in Germany.
It has an ALKO chassis like the BPW (bolted and galvanised).
The floor has the sandwich construction (plywood/styrofoam/plywood).
My trailer is from 1991 and looks like new from the underside.
IMO this is a very reliable contruction and was even wondering why A/S is not using it. Now I read that the Euro A/S is using the BPW chassis.
I have read through some threads here about floor rot/tail sag etc.
I think the way the chassis is made on a A/S is asking for problems.
Damp and water will get in between the belly pan and the floor and the chassis (I think you guys call them frame rails) will start to rot.

Mind you: I like the Airstream very much and must add that not many caravans in Europe live as long as an A/S, but there is another reason for that...
__________________
jurjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2008, 09:49 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurjen
I'm from the Netherlands and have been reading this thread with interest.
I have a Dethleffs trailer that is made in Germany.
It has an ALKO chassis like the BPW (bolted and galvanised).
The floor has the sandwich construction (plywood/styrofoam/plywood).
My trailer is from 1991 and looks like new from the underside.
IMO this is a very reliable contruction and was even wondering why A/S is not using it. Now I read that the Euro A/S is using the BPW chassis.
I have read through some threads here about floor rot/tail sag etc.
I think the way the chassis is made on a A/S is asking for problems.
Damp and water will get in between the belly pan and the floor and the chassis (I think you guys call them frame rails) will start to rot.

Mind you: I like the Airstream very much and must add that not many caravans in Europe live as long as an A/S, but there is another reason for that...
Hello Jerjen
I'm glad that you are interested in in the evolution of the American Airstream into a lighter, stronger and even longer lasting product then what is made today. Owning a vintage trailer I know of it's strengths and weaknesses. Mostly the former.
I am not so sure about the newer models durability and vintage potential, but the changes in the frames and flooring of the Euro models give me hope changes are on the way.
So want are some of the longevity problems of "Caravans" over there?
__________________
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 06:03 AM   #49
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Buitenpost , Frl
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
We do not really have many old caravans. I will try to give a little history:
After WW2 Europe was poor, so not much happening here in the fourties and fifties. I the sixties things were looking better and everybody had a job and people started buying cars. These were small cars like the VW beetle, small Opels (GM) and Fords. Engine capacties around 1300cc and 40 to 50HP.
Not really suited for a big trailer. So small caravans and pop-up trailers became popular. At the end of the sixties Spain and France became a very popular destination for the summer holidays. This was a 2000 to 3000 mile round trip. So we needed light small caravans. Here's a picture of a beetle with an Eriba Puck:


The Eriba was built to last (a bit like the A/S, but without the belly pan and isolation). Many of them survived, but the caravans are small and not suited for today's wishes. The caravan size grew over the years as the passenger cars got heavier and more powerfull. Was the cabin lenght for the caravans in the sixties about 10', it grew to 12' in the seventies, to 14' in the eighties.
Today we are at 16' to 17'. We still like to keep the dry weight as low as possible. Dry weight is about 2650lbs for the 16' caravan.
Popular towing vehicles are passenger cars with a 2.0 ltr turbo diesels.
This development shows why there is little interest in older caravans: they are to small for every use, so most of them are scrapped.
__________________
jurjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 10:42 AM   #50
Rivet Master
 
safari57's Avatar
 
1951 21' Flying Cloud
1960 24' Tradewind
West Coast , BC
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,790
Images: 10
Send a message via MSN to safari57
JurJen

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your background on the evolution of European caravans. It helped me put everything into perspective.

Good luck with your search for your Airstream.

Barry
__________________
Barry & Donna
Life is short - so is the door on a '51 Flying Cloud (ouch)
safari57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 11:17 AM   #51
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
History lesson

Quote:
Originally Posted by jurjen
We do not really have many old caravans. I will try to give a little history:
After WW2 Europe was poor, so not much happening here in the fourties and fifties. I the sixties things were looking better and everybody had a job and people started buying cars. These were small cars like the VW beetle, small Opels (GM) and Fords. Engine capacties around 1300cc and 40 to 50HP.
Not really suited for a big trailer. So small caravans and pop-up trailers became popular. At the end of the sixties Spain and France became a very popular destination for the summer holidays. This was a 2000 to 3000 mile round trip. So we needed light small caravans. Here's a picture of a beetle with an Eriba Puck:


The Eriba was built to last (a bit like the A/S, but without the belly pan and isolation). Many of them survived, but the caravans are small and not suited for today's wishes. The caravan size grew over the years as the passenger cars got heavier and more powerfull. Was the cabin lenght for the caravans in the sixties about 10', it grew to 12' in the seventies, to 14' in the eighties.
Today we are at 16' to 17'. We still like to keep the dry weight as low as possible. Dry weight is about 2650lbs for the 16' caravan.
Popular towing vehicles are passenger cars with a 2.0 ltr turbo diesels.
This development shows why there is little interest in older caravans: they are to small for every use, so most of them are scrapped.
Excellent explanation. I always think first that the roads are old, small and then the cost of fuel is higher. But your historical recap of the last sixty years as it applies to caravanning (travel trailers) is very interesting. Wally Byam was very interested in the European market and the products coming out in the late fifties and early sixties.
The American trend towards larger is better does not always make it a better product. With fuel cost rising daily and vehicles becoming smaller with better fuel mileage capabilities, the design of the travel trailer must follow this trend.
This thread shows that Airstream is looking forward to the future at least for the foreign market.
Gary
__________________
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 11:25 AM   #52
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Buitenpost , Frl
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
I think I found my ideal A/S already, it is the Euro A/S 534 (bit pricey though).
Here is a picture and floor plan:

CampoWorld maakt vrije tijd tot een belevenis!

My excuses for the Dutch language.

Regards, Jurjen
__________________
jurjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 03:26 PM   #53
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurjen
I think I found my ideal A/S already, it is the Euro A/S 534 (bit pricey though).
Here is a picture and floor plan:

CampoWorld maakt vrije tijd tot een belevenis!

My excuses for the Dutch language.

Regards, Jurjen
Excellent choice, Jerjen.
Maybe with the sinking value of the US Dollar Airstreams will be more affordable over there. Nice floor plans and modern materials. Good luck.
Gary
__________________
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 04:34 PM   #54
4 Rivet Member
 
1986 32' Excella
vledder , drenthe
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 411
Images: 8
I don't even want to get close to a euro airstream.
A airstream is a icon, making it a euro airstream is like puting a japan made diesel in a cadillac.
A other bad example are the US cars build for our european market.
The lack the comfort of a real US full sice car and they don't handle like the european cars , so you get a uncomfortable car that handles like a fried egg in a non stick frieingpan.
__________________
remcolent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2008, 06:48 AM   #55
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Buitenpost , Frl
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
I don't want to start any old/new/euro A/S discussion here and don't misunderstand me: if I had time and money I would buy the oldest (13 section roof) A/S I could find. But I don't see anything wrong in improving an existing design. I will give you an example. If A/S had been improving the frame/floor design 25 years ago: you would wake up tomorrow and look under your 32' excella (from 1986) and find that the galvanized frame rails were still looking the same as the day it left the factory.
__________________
jurjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2008, 10:33 AM   #56
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
Eurostreaming

Quote:
Originally Posted by remcolent
I don't even want to get close to a euro airstream.
A airstream is a icon, making it a euro airstream is like puting a japan made diesel in a cadillac.
A other bad example are the US cars build for our european market.
The lack the comfort of a real US full sice car and they don't handle like the european cars , so you get a uncomfortable car that handles like a fried egg in a non stick frieingpan.
Remcolent,
What is wrong with using the best from both worlds? New ideas about lighter weight and better floor materials are needed now and the euro model are using them. Ask any Airstream owner with a rusty frame. From photos of the new frames it looks like they are still being assembled in Ohio (The Mothership).
And I will take a Japanese diesel anytime in any vehicle.
Gary
__________________

__________________
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.