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Old 10-16-2005, 10:12 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
Ok ok Uwe - I'll get those wheels

Ken
maybe we all should? ha! i like em too!

jp
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
I used the foil bubble method pioneered by Malconium and am quite happy with the results. Before insulation, any sun at all would turn the thing into a miniature black hole of heat death.
Carlos,
As you know, I used the very same method, ( thanks Malconium!) and now have some real life results with it, all favorable.
Using a space heater at night kept the trailer wonderfully warm, and I could hear a 1500W space heater kick on and off, once or twice my fantastic fans kicked on because I left the thermostat on the daytime setting, and the lids cranked open during the night.
During daytime, in bright sun, the inside skins barely got warm to the touch.
I remember in similar situations, the inside skin of my tradewind getting good and warm to the touch, almost hot.
I think that so far I am very pleased with this method of insulation.
Carlos, make sure and use aluminum tape to tape off all seams and cracks that are left, I believe that that's very important for a quality installation.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe

During daytime, in bright sun, the inside skins barely got warm to the touch.
I remember in similar situations, the inside skin of my tradewind getting good and warm to the touch, almost hot.
I think that so far I am very pleased with this method of insulation.

While I was installing (in full sun) I could feel the difference between the uninsulated skin and the insulation areas I was installing. The uninsulated skin could literally burn you I think, the insulation was only warm after heating for a quite a while.

I am planning on installing some cork underlayment on each rib before putting in the interior skin to create a thermal barrier, as those ribs conduct heat and condense water quite well. I am cutting the cork to about 5/8" widths and sticking it to the ribs with spray adhesive. The rivets will hold it in place so I am not to worried about the adhesive failing. I am hoping this will protect the interior skin from the water that condenses in the morning.

Carlos
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:09 PM   #32
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Floorplan iteration one

I hope to have my trailer serve dual function as a live/work space. I am trying to cram the living space into as small a section as possible in order to maximize work area (there is never enough of this). I think I will install the living part initially and just use knock down tables in the rear until I have an idea what to build.

The floorplan here is my first attempt, I hope some comments will make me think of some possibilities that I have overlooked. I realize I could make the rear end exclusively work space by making the front dinette some kind of larger bed/couch pullout, but I really like the idea of a bed in back and am not quite ready to give this up. I think it would be good to have two bed spots just in case as well.

Any thoughts on this layout? Left end is front.
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
...I am hoping this will protect the interior skin from the water that condenses in the morning...
hey carlos,

check my post for a pic of the condensation that happens on teh inside of my roof and see if yours is similar. i really want to figure out a way to keep that to a minimum. the other morning, there was so much condensation on the inside of the skin of mine that it was running down to the floor. there's got to be a way to keep the condensation down. i like your method with the cork.

where did you get the roll insulation? Lowes has it for something like $50 a roll. there's got to be a better supplier.

jp
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:13 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
hey carlos,

check my post for a pic of the condensation that happens on teh inside of my roof and see if yours is similar. i really want to figure out a way to keep that to a minimum.

where did you get the roll insulation? Lowes has it for something like $50 a roll. there's got to be a better supplier.

jp
JP - The condensation is a result of the warm moist air in the trailer hitting the cold-in-the-morning metal of the skin - the water condenses. When my trailer was gutted it looked just like yours, wet all over in the morning, and I was pretty worried and couldn't figure how the thing had kept from rotting completely from the inside out. I installed the foil insulation though, and no more condensation. This makes sense as the only water that would be able to condense on the outer skin would be the water that is trapped in the air between the skin and insulation. The insulation itself doesn't get cold like the skin did, so no major condensation insulation inside either.

This was illustrated when I was half done - the part that was just skin one morning was wet, but the insulated area was not. I wondered if the water was just under the insulation against the skin, there but hidden, so I peeled up some insulation: dry skin. There was a very small bit of moisture on the insulation, but nothing compared to what was on the raw skin. I figure with the internal skin in the effect will be even better.

The ribs, on the other hand, are another matter, and condense despite the insulation, hence my attempts with the cork... I will let you know how it goes.

Lowes was my source, I think it was 40-something here. I needed exactly four rolls of that size you are talking about for my entire trailer with a tiny bit left over. You might need only three, my trailer is 19' long inside... I taped cut-offs back together to make some new pieces.

C
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:08 PM   #35
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cool, thanks man. i'll probably be getting to the insulation stage in a few weeks. actually, i could probably go ahead and do the end caps for starters. i still have 2 upper side skins to go.

let me make sure i get this straight... you cut little foam blocks to put on the skin, then the bubble insulation goes in, and more foam blocks to keep it suspended evenly between the inner and outter skin... then seal up the edges as uwe suggests with aluminum tape. (after i run all the wires, of course). did i miss anything there?

the only place i'm mildly concerned is around the exhaust for the stove. i'm sure a hot pipe running through the plastic bubble wrap isn't the keenest idea.

on your floorplans, i bet i did 10 different directions before i came up with something i like. i drew basic block sizes for everything and moved it arround (in adobe illustrator), until i got teh maximum useable floor space, and all the details tucked as close together as posible. one thing i didn't like much in friend's trailers was the cave feel it made when you have 2 tall cabinets side by side, so i kept mine to a minimum. also, another concern for me was to have enough space in the front to comfortably entertain 4 adults (and a baby!). i like a lot of floor space there, if at all possible. it gives it a much more open feel.

what's the work space for, btw? just curious?

jp
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
let me make sure i get this straight... you cut little foam blocks to put on the skin, then the bubble insulation goes in, and more foam blocks to keep it suspended evenly between the inner and outter skin... then seal up the edges as uwe suggests with aluminum tape. (after i run all the wires, of course). did i miss anything there?

the only place i'm mildly concerned is around the exhaust for the stove. i'm sure a hot pipe running through the plastic bubble wrap isn't the keenest idea.

what's the work space for, btw? just curious?

jp
1- The definitive tract on the insulation was written by Malconium - I think it is under foil bubble insulation methods if you search. I used foam insulation for the spacers "foamular" a 1" thick 4x8" sheet cut to 1/2" strips on the table saw, then used heavy duty construction adhesive (I found some polyurathane stuff that was quite strong but expensive, something like 20 tubes were used!) to stick up the spacers. I only used spacers on the backside, the stuff is held pretty tightly to the spacers and I don't think there is any reason for the second set of spacers. I put in the wires after insulating, if I ever need to get at them it will be one less layer to dig through... Ask if you have any questions about this... It was a fairly pleasurable activity I found.

2- I plan on cutting the insulation back about 12" from my woodstove pipe and stuffing in some mineral board in that space - an anti-flame sort of stuff that should be fine closer to the heat of the pipe...

3- Painting, drawing, making things in general. www.carlosferguson.com if you are interested. (make sure to click on the images on the 2005 page for the full effect)

c
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Old 10-21-2005, 03:38 PM   #37
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Wood Endcaps

I used baltic birch for a sculpture I made recently, bent around a frame and screwed (see pic below) and I have been thinking about that curved wood studded with silver screws for my airstream (change to rivets though).

I called a friend who just bought a 52' and had her measure her endcaps on the inside so that I had something to start with.

I marked out these measurements on the window and first main rib and used a long piece of bendy baltic birch to trace a line between them. (see pic)

I used tar paper to make a paper pattern of these sections - I cut it close to size, taped it up with duct tape, then cut slits and folded back little sections to aproximate the line that I had drawn earlier. (pic)

I then transferred these flat sheets to the birch ply to make patterns that I will use to cut my "real" pieces. I laid out and outlined the tarpaper on the ply, then used a bandsaw and belt sander to make the edges into nice smooth curves.

I tacked these pieces up with clecos to make sure it was working and then added a few rivets just to see how it would look.

I think it will work, the rivets grab well into the wood, snug and seated without tearing the fibers - and the wood bends just a bit to give a nice "quilted" sensation that I tried to show in another picture. The patterns aren't perfect and I might make some small adjustments, or I might leave it the way it is, you know, to look hand made and all... I would like to blame these little defects on my friend's tape measure, but I am sure it is mismeasuring on my part.

I bought 20 sheets of this 5' x 5' 1/8" baltic ply and put three coats of poly on the back for waterproofing and two on the front - after I install I will put on the last coat on the front, I think this might allow me to clean up any dings and dirt before putting on that last coat.

Carlos
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:09 PM   #38
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Carlos,
Watching your progress is pure joy!
You do nice work!
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Old 10-22-2005, 04:54 AM   #39
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this is looking awesome! 13 panels is definitely the way to go if you are using real plywood. after taking my caps out, and seeing the compound curving in them, there's no way to make a 7 panel work with wood. not in any easy way that i can think of, at least. i'll be laminating mine. this will be interesting to see how differently ours turn out.

lookin great, man!

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Old 10-22-2005, 07:49 AM   #40
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How...

did you get the 1/8th" ply to bend on that art project that you did? Is there just a curved frame (without studs) that the ply is screwed to? Did you steam the wood first? Looks fantastic! How did it look finished?
Awesome work!
Marc
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
did you get the 1/8th" ply to bend on that art project that you did? Is there just a curved frame (without studs) that the ply is screwed to? Did you steam the wood first? Looks fantastic! How did it look finished?
Awesome work!
Marc
The baltic birch will curve around a frame like that with no steam - it is quite strong and flexible, probably down to about a 10" radius or so. I cut a circle, than another circle like a rabbet (if you know what that means) inside the first and clamped the plywood to the inner circle and screwed. It was a little more complex because I wanted that figure eight shape, but basically just careful cutting with a router. I used two layers of the 1/8" ply for strength. I usually use paste wax on birch as it isn't so great with oil, blotchy. For my interior though I am going to poly, I just want a little more protection in that potentially damp enviroment.
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Old 10-25-2005, 02:51 PM   #42
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Wood Endcap Installation

I put in the rear endcap and general area today... here are some pictures. It looks nice, warm in color which will help over the next few months as it turns grey here. It was a bit of a job getting everything lined up and now I am pretty sure I don't want to punch holes in that area for the above-window shelf with lights that I had planned. The wood rivets nicely and is quite solid. I used cork spacers for part of this installation, they work well with the wood, but I am not sure I would use them for an aluminum interior, it compresses just a bit and the aluminum might not have enough stiffness to stay relatively flat.
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