1962 22' Safari

[uwe]

Originally Posted by jcferguson

Well, I need some kind of get-me-clean space, as this will be a live-in for a lot of the time. I could make a tub on the left side of the dinette and just have a toilet by the door under the counter. Or it could be a full wet bath, or some sort of collapse-able wet bath. I am still trying to have a flash of inspiration about this. Come on, flash. Ok, now. Flash.

Flash:
One needs to be comfortable and clean....so make a decent bath already!
You only need one dimension that allows you to sort of stretch your ams sideways.
The bath in my 71 was a tiny wet bath, but quite comfortable once one found the right position to take a good shower.

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by uwe

Flash:
......
The bath in my 71 was a tiny wet bath, but quite comfortable once one found the right position to take a good shower.

Speaking from a hacks perspective I say, "Do not rush quality."
Have had my Airstream 5-6 years, still have holes in the floor.

R

[jcferguson]

My heavy duty drawer slides came in and I put together my heavy duty bed support - see the pictures below. I think the design is potentially very useful - the space could either be two tables, a couch and a table, two couches facing each other ( maybe a dinette too if I designed the table tops square ), or a bed that stretches across the entire back space.

The design problems are caused by Airstream - the rear window is slightly larger than half the width of the space. If it was a few inches thinner, one set of drawer slides would work. As it is, I need to span about 23 inches, but only have 18 inches under each platform. To solve this problem, I bolted two sets of slides together so my slide will pull out further than the rated length. For one side, I have a 12" bolted to a 16", for the other, an 18" bolted to a 12". (If I did it again, I would just use a 12" and a 12" on each side - since I am going to add other supports anyway, see below.)

A second problem is my own, I want the top of the bed just a few inches below the height of the window so I can look out without lifting myself up in bed. This means that the flip down part isnt tall enough (it is 19") to cover half the space when in the down position (23" needed). If the bed was 4" lower, the flip down part would be 4" taller and would cover half. I will solve this by making a second 4" flip out part that is piano-hinged to the top of the first piece. Snap snap instead of snap.

Third problem - to make the couch work, that flip down part needs to be able to flip all the way down to vertical again, past the horizontal bed position. Then you could just lift off the top, flip that front all the way down to the ground (which, incidentally, wouldn't work if I had lowered the bed four inches) and sit on down in front of that window. The piano hinges that I used, however, don't allow it to flip down, it is stopped at the horizontal setting. Any ideas for different hinges? I am ambivalent about redesigning this bit right now, but I am sure I would use that couch space, especially if I was sleeping in front and using the back as a studio, it would be easy to pop it open and closed and have a place to sit and read that isn't the bed.

Problem four, I need advice. I am trying not to overbuild this thing so I wanted to wait until it was at this point to see if I needed more supports for those slide out bed support drawers. Though the slides are 500 pound rated, they deflect a half inch or so when I set down on them - I think this is because the slides are doubled and bolted together rather than used as designed. So... I will make a flip down leg like under my dinette for the front part of the bed... slides come out, flip down the leg that will sit squarely under the long beams, then flip down the flat pieces. The other end next to the window is what I am pondering. Right now, this seems the only place to store the removable table tops when it is in the bed position, so a flip down leg wouldn't really work there, it would sit on the table tops instead of the floor. So a cleat on the wall? I am sure that I could screw a cleat to the wall that would support any weight on that bed even though it is just 1/8" ply, but how would it look? Make the cleat go down to the floor in a pyramid shape? or a round shape with a flat top? Or make a subwoofer there so it looks like it has some function?

Any thoughts out there, those that have read this far and understood anything I just wrote?

[jcferguson]

This design would work much better in the center of the airstream where the walls are square-er, but then no big window by the bed.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by jcferguson

My heavy duty drawer slides came in and I put together my heavy duty bed support - see the pictures below. I think the design is potentially very useful - the space could either be two tables, a couch and a table, two couches facing each other ( maybe a dinette too if I designed the table tops square ), or a bed that stretches across the entire back space.

I think it's a fabulous design that will give you the flexibility in your space that you need to be creative.

Originally Posted by jcferguson

The design problems are caused by Airstream - the rear window is slightly larger than half the width of the space. If it was a few inches thinner, one set of drawer slides would work. As it is, I need to span about 23 inches, but only have 18 inches under each platform. To solve this problem, I bolted two sets of slides together so my slide will pull out further than the rated length. For one side, I have a 12" bolted to a 16", for the other, an 18" bolted to a 12". (If I did it again, I would just use a 12" and a 12" on each side - since I am going to add other supports anyway, see below.)

Not sure on this one. I can't visualize it.

Originally Posted by jcferguson

A second problem is my own, I want the top of the bed just a few inches below the height of the window so I can look out without lifting myself up in bed. This means that the flip down part isnt tall enough (it is 19") to cover half the space when in the down position (23" needed). If the bed was 4" lower, the flip down part would be 4" taller and would cover half. I will solve this by making a second 4" flip out part that is piano-hinged to the top of the first piece. Snap snap instead of snap.

Makes sense.

Originally Posted by jcferguson

Third problem - to make the couch work, that flip down part needs to be able to flip all the way down to vertical again, past the horizontal bed position. Then you could just lift off the top, flip that front all the way down to the ground (which, incidentally, wouldn't work if I had lowered the bed four inches) and sit on down in front of that window. The piano hinges that I used, however, don't allow it to flip down, it is stopped at the horizontal setting. Any ideas for different hinges? I am ambivalent about redesigning this bit right now, but I am sure I would use that couch space, especially if I was sleeping in front and using the back as a studio, it would be easy to pop it open and closed and have a place to sit and read that isn't the bed.

There's a hinge for everything. Browse Rockler and LeeValley.com, and take a look. Also, I got a catalog from Austin Hardware, they have a bunch of unusual things listed. Another source is porfessional flight case hardware, they have all sorts of extrusions and hinges. www.penn-elcom.com
Have you tried to join two hinges together? One upside down from the other might do the trick...maybe I'm hallucinating, tough.

Originally Posted by jcferguson

Problem four, I need advice. I am trying not to overbuild this thing so I wanted to wait until it was at this point to see if I needed more supports for those slide out bed support drawers. Though the slides are 500 pound rated, they deflect a half inch or so when I set down on them - I think this is because the slides are doubled and bolted together rather than used as designed. So... I will make a flip down leg like under my dinette for the front part of the bed... slides come out, flip down the leg that will sit squarely under the long beams, then flip down the flat pieces. The other end next to the window is what I am pondering. Right now, this seems the only place to store the removable table tops when it is in the bed position, so a flip down leg wouldn't really work there, it would sit on the table tops instead of the floor. So a cleat on the wall? I am sure that I could screw a cleat to the wall that would support any weight on that bed even though it is just 1/8" ply, but how would it look? Make the cleat go down to the floor in a pyramid shape? or a round shape with a flat top? Or make a subwoofer there so it looks like it has some function?

Any thoughts out there, those that have read this far and understood anything I just wrote?

Subs need a little space..I am not sure where you would put it. Would it not be in the way? And, even though bass is non-directional for the most part, this is the opposite end of the trailer from the speakers, might sound phasey and weird. I'd try it first before investing much time and/or money.
Have you considered a pin instead of a cleat? Perhaps reinforce the skin at the right area, and then install a chrome grommet, in which a hardened pin can slide to secure the rear of the bed. The pin could rest in the wood somehow, and retract when not needed.
It's a bit hard to visualize the entire shabang, even though you posted excellent pictures. It's always easier for me to put my hands on it, and follow the movement of the pieces to get a good idea of what might work and what will not. Stay on it, you're prototyping the ultimate convertible human habitat.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Ok - I think I visualize your problems. Hinge - you need one to sit flush at the top (so the table top sits flush on the top of the flip up), yet fold back on itself when the extension is in place. How about just a filler piece that velcros to the underside of the desk top? Rip it out, and place in the middle?

For the back - how about a "pop up cleat" that are used for boats. I think they're round, stainless steel, and unobtrusive at rest. Pop it out when you're ready to use the bed, and let the arms rest on it? Only problem, is I don't know how deep into the wall it needs.

I love your work. Keep it up!
Marc

[jcferguson]

Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy

Ok - I think I visualize your problems. Hinge - you need one to sit flush at the top (so the table top sits flush on the top of the flip up), yet fold back on itself when the extension is in place. How about just a filler piece that velcros to the underside of the desk top? Rip it out, and place in the middle?

I thought about that for that filler piece, but decided to hinge it so it would just "be there" when I flipped it open. The problem isn't that so much as getting the main piece to flip all the way down... I think I will just leave this for later as the secondary space filler piece would then be a problem when the main piece was flipped all the way down. This is difficult to explain with all these flips and slides... A knuckle hinge on the main flipper wood piece would work (let it go all the way up vertical for closed, flat horizontal for open, than down vertical for couch) , but too late!

For the back - how about a "pop up cleat" that are used for boats. I think they're round, stainless steel, and unobtrusive at rest. Pop it out when you're ready to use the bed, and let the arms rest on it? Only problem, is I don't know how deep into the wall it needs.

This a great idea, I looked though and they need 3" depth. Darn. I like them though, maybe for something else.

I love your work. Keep it up!
Marc

thanks!

[uwe]

Carlos,
I made templates with the dimensions of your dinette, and with a few very minor changes, I think it can be the ultimate "loungette". So, perhaps next week i will start building. I might make a large drawer in the curbside seat, so that it can be all the way opened and filled with towing essentials and folding chairs etc. The other side will hold a rack for wine ( for me and guests ) and Pellegrino water (my wife's favorite).
The table will e similar to yours, thanks for the link to the bracket. It will be such that it can be made into a spare bed.

[jcferguson]

Originally Posted by uwe

Carlos,
I made templates with the dimensions of your dinette, and with a few very minor changes, I think it can be the ultimate "loungette". So, perhaps next week i will start building. I might make a large drawer in the curbside seat, so that it can be all the way opened and filled with towing essentials and folding chairs etc. The other side will hold a rack for wine ( for me and guests ) and Pellegrino water (my wife's favorite).
The table will e similar to yours, thanks for the link to the bracket. It will be such that it can be made into a spare bed.

I thought about that drawer too, I thought I would lose too much area unless I made the front of the drawer curved, maybe I will do that sometime. Cool! I can't wait to see it. By loungette do you mean that the street side seat will be longer so you can lounge on it?

I had a friend come by today and look at my trailer (a cabinetmaker friend from school who has been giving me some advice) and he thought I should bore some holes just to the left of my sink where there are a few inches of space, insert some pvc and a magnetic cap and make a spot for wine bottles! I might do it because it's such a great idea and it would be neat to slide the bottles out of these little cylinders. Maybe room for four bottles, at least two.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by jcferguson

I thought about that drawer too, I thought I would lose too much area unless I made the front of the drawer curved, maybe I will do that sometime. Cool! I can't wait to see it. By loungette do you mean that the street side seat will be longer so you can lounge on it?

That's the plan! Towster's seats are a bit longer than the table, and even though it's different design altogether, it gave me the idea.
I might do someting different yet, make an ottoman of sorts, with felt sliders and an upholstered hinged lid, matching in size and look to the benches. This can then be used as part of the bed when the table top is down, or moved about the space to be used on either side, for an extra seat etc.
I might consider your sunken magnet idea as well to keep the ottoman in place when it is butted up against the seat.

Originally Posted by jcferguson

I had a friend come by today and look at my trailer (a cabinetmaker friend from school who has been giving me some advice) and he thought I should bore some holes just to the left of my sink where there are a few inches of space, insert some pvc and a magnetic cap and make a spot for wine bottles! I might do it because it's such a great idea and it would be neat to slide the bottles out of these little cylinders. Maybe room for four bottles, at least two.

What a brilliant idea! I will be frantically searching for unused hollow space first thing Monday. After all, isnt true boondocking capability measured by the amount of booze one can safely transport?

[jcferguson]

these are the legs I made for the bed, now it is solid. The front leg is flip-down, so that I can stick the table tops under the bed and remove them without closing everything up. The rear legs are attached directly to the main center beams - they slide in and out with the drawer compartments.

When I am lying in bed the horizon line is in the center of the window. I like this kind of cat-seat-view.

bed-time!

[uwe]

There you go, a simple, but elegant solution to your quest.

[jcferguson]

I weighed in today after adding some more weight: the spare tire, full lp tanks (60# of lp), the rear bed, the front drawers, also a full drawer of wood for my stove: 3440lbs total, probably 3350 "dry". My tongue weight right now is 520, or 15%, a little high, should be closer to 375 lbs I think. It doesn't feel like it is overburdened yet, still feels very bouncy and the angle of the axle hasn't changed much.

I still have to add plastic water tanks underneath the trailer, the bath, the rear drawers, plumbing... I think about 300 more pounds. This would put me at about 3700.

The original "dry weight" is listed at 3050 for 62, and went up to 3300 the next year (63). I think my original axle was rated for 3900 pounds (this was machine-typed on the "warranty" stuck on the inside of the closet door - though my axle supplier told me this wasn't accurate - so I don't know for sure.)

At any rate, I increased the axle to 4500lbs. This was a guess at the time, my axle supplier said I didn't want to put on such a large axle unless I would be travelling at close to that weight. It seems about right though - original axle was rated for about 900 lbs more than the dry weight, this new axle would be rated about 800 lbs. more than dry.

If 10-12% of the weight is on the tongue and the axle weighs about 150, my total weight could be about 5200, which is also the load rating for my wheels/tires (though they would only carry about 4700). Heavy.

So if I have a dry weight of 3700 and 300lbs of water, I still have room for about 1200 lbs. of "stuff" before I would be getting to an overload? Does that sound reasonable? I don't think I own 1200 pounds of stuff and I could put the rest in the tow vehicle.

I am hoping the tongue weight will decrease some as a percentage when I add the rear drawers. Everything up near the tongue is done, so there shouldn't be too much more weight up there. I will consider moving some things around if I need to. The batteries are the logical thing to stick somewhere else, get some long heavy duty cables and make a spot behind the wheel well on the street side.

Do these calculations sound correct? Stuff to worry about? I know I am on the heavy side, but do I have to lose some weight?

C

[jcferguson]

I just looked at the dry weight table for older airstreams - mine would now be more comfortable in the 70's, when dry weights went up to 3800 or so for a 23 foot model. Tongue weight is listed at 750 for that 3800.

Shouldn't I be shooting for 12% or so? That is closer to 20%.

[uwe]

I would prefer a heavier tongue over an unbalanced trailer. Your axle rating will be excellent, in my opinion. Add water, and the rest of your stuff, and you will have yourself a very nice and safe towing trailer. You do need a weight distributing hitch at this point, but that's a given anyways. Remember that when you crank up the weight bars, that the trailer axle will get some of the tongue weight, as will the front axle of the truck.
It looks like it should tow really nice with full water and loaded for having a life on the road.

[fastrob]

I found a little shower unit on this thread:http://www.airforums.com/forum...ouds-8636.html Tried to attach the picture, hope it works.
R

[jcferguson]

Originally Posted by fastrob

I found a little shower unit on this thread:http://www.airforums.com/forum...ouds-8636.html Tried to attach the picture, hope it works.
R

Ha! I think that is my friend Theresa's trailer, she is an artist too and we are having an "airstream" show together later this year.

I am ambivalent about a curtain as walls for the bath though. I think a solid surface would be easier to dry. I am thinking of that semi-translucent corrugated plastic for parts of the walls, lets light through, is waterproof, lightweight, structural. I am going to make a cardboard mock-up today to see what it does to the space.

Carlos

[jcferguson]

These are the closers for my drawers.

[jcferguson]

I made a mock bath today, it is about 28 inches on the table side, tapers to about 22 inches by the door side, where the toilet will be located. I am still ambivalent about putting in this structure, but with the taper I can still see all the windows from most spots in the trailer. The front curb-side dinette seat is the area is disadvantaged though.

The other option is some kind of pull out curtain, but I can't see that looking very good, or being easy to pack away when it is wet.

If I taper the bath like this, the toilet area is more proportioned to the toilet itself, with no taper it is a little wide there, with no apparent use for the space to the sides of the toilet. The taper will also roughly match the taper of the tabletop in the rear, making a long arc for that side of the trailer. 44 inches wide, perhaps just enough for almost comfortable showering, I will put a piece of paper over the door and air-scrub-up just to be sure.

I am wondering about my dump valve now. I had planned on having a hatch just opposite the backside of the toilet - this would be just inside the door to the trailer. The macerator would be in there, with a quick release attachment for a hose that I could snap on, pump out, then pump the grey tank through the black tank to clean things out. Then snap off the hose and put it, um, somewhere else. Is this a bad idea? Should I have that quick release jobby below deck, under the trailer? Seems prudent I guess, in case some electrical storm causes my macerator to go off in the middle of the night? I could still locate the macerator there with a hatch for maintenance and a switch for the grinder.

Any thoughts on that bathroom? Will it ruin my trailer or make it seem larger because there will be two roomlike spaces instead of one biggie?

C

[uwe]

I think that once again you found a good solution to your needs. An odd shape stall would add interest, in my opinion, and give a slight sense of separation to the entry area, leaving a "what's around the corner" type quastion when entering the trailer. I, too, like open spaces, but have found that a few stratetic and necessary walls actually add interest to the space.

Now if you use an artsy material, it would surely look nice and function well. I can see milky plexiglass or plastic sheeting, perhaps framed by aluminum extrusions.