If it is just "the intent to setup a Wiki system to help capture the history of Airstream Trailers and Motorhomes" Then it would seem that books like "AIRSTREAM The History of the Land Yacht" by Bryan Burkhart & David Hunt copyright 2000 have already done a lot of this.
Hmm... I haven't read Bryan's book, but I was thinking that the wiki system could document things that as a total would be the equivalent of an encyclopedia. Eventually it would include all and more than the VAC currently houses in it's archives (whatever that is!)...
A central source for up to date hyperlinks for everything. But more specifically somewhere were everything about every individual model could be researched. My primary interests are in Airstream Trailers Inc. models up through the 60's. Not in Thor's current interpretation of what Wally’s Airstream Trailer would be today.
My initial contribution was to document the spare tire cover on the 65GT. I know it's common to more models and years than mine. But I also know it's fairly rare to have one that has survived. I would hope that others that have this option on their rigs would expand my initial text to include other years that this aluminum spare tire cover existed. Cover photos, mount photos, hinge photos, clasp photos, overall cover dimensions, overall mount dimensions. Very specific, something I don't think you'll find in a current book. I’d be surprised if anyone has documented individual components including early Hehr windows, refrigerators, etc...
Does that have a place in WallyWiki (Oh, thank you for that name!)? I would hope so. I guess I'll find out soon enough...
My take on Wiki (or my interest) is to see a historical and complete shop manual develop. What's in my unit. What other units was it common to. What was it preceded by, what was it replaced with. For any component listed, what are its specs, its maintenance and repair procedures.
But, that's just what I would like to see. If I contribute enough, maybe that's what it becomes, or at least partially in some small way...
If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will toss my butt out of there and save me a lot of effort!
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It does have a place - why not? If it is airstream related, it is in.
As Andy stated on the wikis purpose - to archive the history of Airstream Trailers and Motorhomes and also create guides, how to's and other projects for us to collaborate on.
while time passed between post 1 and 2...i don't see any differences in the 2 posts.....more like a bump. no info has been posted to describe the project or structure, or anything really except to note.....it's coming along.....
first post mentioned adm rights to those who do help with setup....and i was just wondering about who on the sign-up list understands or is setting up the project.
i don't see any thing new there to now suggest "ok, let's get the content folks on board now".......so i've just been asking an extension of the question airstream25 posted.....
now it reads like andyr is doing all the backend work....which is fine.
being a moderator here or post whor3 in the forums, isn't the same skill set as having adm rights for a wiki site....
anyone posting big blocks of knowledge to a wiki (or this wiki) needs to understand what happens to the info.....and who now 'owns' it.....
true experts, historians and so on who have equity in their content should understand what happens to their content.
as for mistakes being corrected in real time making everything better........suppose a "how-to" electrical topic has a dangerous error, and someone uses it....only to toast their trailer or themselves......then a few days later the topic is "fixed"..........on the wiki.......
that entire issue, is one of the many key differences between printed books and vapor publishing....
also note the number of forum members with real content equity (like the a/s life guy and others) who no longer post much but instead have their on blogs, website and so on....
lastly
please understand that a wiki isn't an end product of any sort.....it is part of a sequence from list servs to forums to wikis to ?????.......
where the hypertexting and archiving tools improve. some content migrates some doesn't and at each increment new restrictions, licenseing rights and ownership rules apply.....to essentially what is a group of folks exchanging ideas.....and having that exchange increasing 'owned' in some way by someone.......
cheers
2air'
btw b'cup.....
surely i haven't seen yours.....i make a point of almost never clicking on links embedded in signatures......maybe i'm missing something i really need to know......but mostly i'm avoiding contacts that carrry bugs and other debris....
in regards to the matter of errors, Nature printed a study on this recently. The conclusion, if I remember correctly, was that wikipedia was somewhat more reliable than the encyclopedia brittanica. You can see wikipedia's response at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...er_2005/Errors
The problems of correct information or even intellectual integrity are not easy ones to solve. Even highly regarded journals have had their problems.
The whole concept of peer review depends upon thorough vesting by many eyes and that is what a wiki can provide.
thanks for the links to nature...i had seen those pieces but forgotten where. there are many issues with printed peer review and too many publications with too few qualified reviewers..... and it is a long step from basic science to applied science. again the wikipedia is a fun, quick place to look up a topic......but i sure wouldn't act based on reading there....
you are correct in suggesting a wiki can provide many eyes for review....but those eyes need to attached to brains with content.....and context.
i last used the e.b. in 1970....or so, but i think it would be a nice place now to look up basic facts about history, people and other finished issues.....i'm not surprised the wiki is no more accurate.....but with a 'who is that person and what do they really know' editorial board.....
folks need to remember the why/what of an airstream wiki.....
from post #13...
"In the end it is tool to help us capture knowledge in another form."
i'm not sure i need another form of capture for airstream issues.....
and my ego sure doesn't need another forum.....
as the nature piece notes..."blogging will survive as it appeals to all the exhibitionists" and my gene for this is very very small..........so now, back into the rabbit hole.
I guess Wiki's become what people make of them, but a pessimist will never get a kite into the air on a windless day (and I'm not suggesting you are a pessimist 2Air)...
I guess I've just got a little more faith in this wiki system, maybe a little more faith in the individual rather than the group. From my perspective it's more about components, time-lines, and some fairly solid facts. If an edit needs to be done here and there, it's not the bitter end. I'd prefer historical items are accessible, not horded and kept stored away in little nooks and crannies (hmm, getting hungry for an English Muffin I think! )
...
As for genes -- the shy ones don't post a few hundred items in just over a years’ time either in jest or seriousness. Nope, we're all just birds of a feather here -- well maybe your feathers are made of fur or they’re just packed away down inside that rabbit hole of yours!
On a windless day tie your kite to a string and cruise the boulevard – she’ll fly!
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I guess I've just got a little more faith in this wiki system, maybe a little more faith in the individual rather than the group. From my perspective it's more about components, time-lines, and some fairly solid facts.
My take on Wiki (or my interest) is to see a historical and complete shop manual develop. What's in my unit. What other units was it common to. What was it preceded by, what was it replaced with. For any component listed, what are its specs, its maintenance and repair procedures.
gt, just a couple of note....and since i'm likely talking to my self....no more on this thread.
i'm confused my you text above.... if you have more faith in the individual rather than the group.....why would you support a wiki? open source work is ALL about the group....no one individual.
if you interest is in a historically correct document, specs, complete shop manual, components, timelines, fairly solid facts....well most of this info has or is already done....histories exist, shop manuals have been written. component lists are available online (maybe not your model). aren't there already appliance manual from bargman to yatzi? from the solar makers to alcoa?
are factory folks gonna contribute....they've got the original dope...are some retired a/s or wbcci types gonna help?
is tour man don....on line here?
i do realize how smart people are here .....but a great example is.......go in the hardware store in jackson center.....and say something about an electrical component from the 70s-80s.........the guy that owns the hw store was the design engineer on the electrical systems then.......so he's got the real dope and can easily explain issues that folks here spend pages wormin' around....
will the people who have published the histories or written shop manuals or trailer repair put their own good work up? or will people snip it, fluff it, shake it 3 times and put it on the wiki as "free knowledge"
the wiki has been described here, by the boss, as
"another place to capture the knowledge......." and comes with licensing restrictions......and reuse limits....
wasn't it you who was making such a big thing of airstream inc/thor holding back the progress of a........forums.com and so on?
maybe i'm thinking of someone else....
and while i realize the furvor in which you are on this club naming thing......wouldn't airstream/argosy wiki be more descriptive a repository on these things... wallyw.......is cute but ever wonder why the a word isn't in there?
i don't think posting questions about how/what/why this thing will work is the least bit negative....or pessimistic
wiki's aren't new in any way....except digital.
we have had open source/populist driven knowledge projects that have been extremely successful and enduring......weather watching programs rely on this group/collective effort. so too astronomy where new astronomical bodies are found or redefined by the collective eyes......and perhaps the most famous and useful of all........ the oed was offered up by a world wide collective of brains way before the digital age.
but successful projects like these had/have trained experts as the final filter....folks who can separate the the wheat from the chaf for everyones gain....without them we'd likely call stars astral bodies and no english word would have a useful history...
besides if i wanted to type something negative/pessimistic......it might be......
i'll put my wallywiki bumper sticker right next to my forums oval and tee shirt and rabbit ears...
Maybe it sounds silly, but those that will put in the time and effort ARE the individuals I speak of. I have faith in those that will put in some real effort. That number is probably going to be pretty small in the end. What I don't have faith in is large numbers of people heading over there with good intentions but little else...
My stuff is old (trailers). If a lot of this stuff is truly documented, I don't know where it is. I'm happy to help out with what I can...
I don't know what others will do that already have the goods. If they see it as a more expansive effort than anything that has been done to date, maybe they will give it up. You don't know until you get there...
"wasn't it you who was making such a big thing of airstream inc/thor holding back the progress of a........forums.com and so on? maybe i'm thinking of someone else...."
You're not wrong -- you got the right guy. I've got a real bad taste of Thor the way they bullied their way through this forum about a year ago and hunted down other sites with the Aword in it. I'll be REAL kind and leave it at that because what comes out next needs some real heavy censoring. Then again, I'm wondering what a 40% warning level looks like?
The free access is what draws me. If I contribute something and know it's going to be free access, then the quality of what you put there is what you hopefully can expect to get back. I don't have a problem with that. My understanding (could be wrong) of the wiki is no one winds up owning that material -- it's free access. Free access isn't a bad thing. If something is worth copyrighting, then from my understanding, it's easy enough to provide a link to copyrighted material from within the wiki than to give it up and lose all rights by submitting the material directly.
I think it's nice that common items can be found and shared. No one has to be a gatekeeper. No one needs the keys or the secret password. We're spread out all over the place online, but locally we share photos, photocopy material and share it, especially the RARE stuff.
"and while i realize the furvor in which you are on this club naming thing......wouldn't airstream/argosy wiki be more descriptive a repository on these things... wallyw.......is cute but ever wonder why the a word isn't in there?"
Oh no no no. The last thing anyone wants these days is something with the A**word in it. That truly IS the plague! That's when the bullies show up! The anti-marketing types can't touch WallyWorld. The only way they can get that is if they have 12 of their closest buddies push that through a name change for them! I don't own an A**stream (unless we're talking about the original Airstream Trailers Inc.). I own a Globetrotter and a Flying Cloud. When the anti-marketing bozos sign my licensing agreement is when I'll utter their mighty and precious word. They can kiss....
"but successful projects like these had/have trained experts as the final filter....folks who can separate the the wheat from the chaf for everyones gain....without them we'd likely call stars astral bodies and no english word would have a useful history..."
Fair enough, but we're talking travel trailers here -- where's the rocket science? This can't be harmful -- not really. I did read somewhere back you toyed with electrocution. I've been jolted before -- I'll probably get jolted again. Tongue in cheek of course -- but I HAVE!
"i'll put my wallywiki bumper sticker right next to my forums oval and tee shirt and rabbit ears..."
Pessimistic? I like that statement -- you got stickers? They're in short supply here! Something about a two year design turnaround once you get Thor involved!!
cheers
2air'
Be well...
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The text beginning with "Miscellaneous" below is some of the fine print pertaining to The Airstream Knoweldge Sharing Forums. It can be found under "Community Policies". Lesson Exercise for Today: Look particularly at the last twounderlined sentences below and, in 500 words or less, compare and contrast those sentences to the concept of "Free Access". 10 minute time limit, start now.
Miscellaneous:
Due to our policy of encouraging candid, open exchanges of views and the rapid distribution of information originating from many sources, the AirstreamForums.com cannot determine the accuracy of information that may be uploaded to the forum.
We are not responsible for Copyrighted material that is posted by a member. To report a Copyrighted violation, please contact us. We will remove the content and notify the member not to post material that is Copyrighted.
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Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Charter Associate Member FCU
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum Adventures"
Fred, we're writing about WallyWiki.org -- FREE ACCESS...
Done in under 2 minutes and just SEVEN words...
As for THIS site it is no different than I would expect it to be. What PRIVATE website doesn't carry a similar copyright statement? This is/was a money making venture. With Thor's big Ape thumbprint on it -- who knows what it is anymore. Got a clause for that?
As Buttercup states above, the information posted to WallyWiki will be licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5license which allows free distribution of that information for non-commercial purposes.
As Fred highlights, the information posted to the forums does not follow the same license.
These systems may seem similar but function in very different ways. Please be patient and let us get WallyWiki going and then the differences will become evident.
I am going to close this thread because this topic is played out. Thanks for your input.
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