Although Airstream, Inc has not had a strong presence on the forums in the past, we have been watching and following the threads. We want to participate and communicate with the owners of our products, potential customers and all of our fanatic enthusiasts. We have been talking about how we can address concerns and streamline the communication process so we can be part of the community.
Some of the concerns that we have include the pace of the discussions which move so rapidly that it's very difficult for us to keep up; since we have demanding jobs and don't always have time to respond in a timely manner. We have also observed the potential for discussions to stray off topic, becoming negative and often counter productive Since we all love Airstreams, it would be nice if we could keep things mostly positive, although we don't have any desire to influence what can or can't be said (even though some conspiracy theorists will think otherwise).
We value constructive criticism as long as it follows the general rules of a discussion or debate, for instance, an opposing view that is backed up by fact or a reasonable simile. We understand that some of the members are a bit more passionate than others, which is fine, but we ask that you keep it in check. Let’s make it a discussion and not a heated argument!
We know the importance of connecting and being part of the discussions with you all is very important. We want to move forward and hope that we can do so in a productive way where we can all learn from each other.
We have been talking about ways we can participate that will allow us to streamline the communication process. We came up with the idea of having a Town Hall Meeting with Bob Wheeler our CEO. Since Bob's time is limited we felt the most effective use of his time would be to allow the forum members to post questions and then have Bob answer many of them on video. This will allow us to field your questions, hear your ideas and digest your feedback and respond through video which is faster and more personal then typing.
So, without further ado, we'd like to ask you all to post questions, tells us about your ideas and what you would like to know from Airstream, Inc. We can't promise that all questions will be answered but we will do our best to address as many as possible but if we don't answer your question we mean nothing personal by it.
We are NOT trying to put any restrictions in place about what can or cannot be asked but we would like to encourage you to ask once and not turn this thread into an off topic discussion.
The forum mods and admins are going to help us organize the questions you post. This list will be presented to Bob. We plan to start slowly and response may be a bit sporadic in the beginning. As the project grows and comes into its own, our response time will get better and will be more on a consistent timetable. Our long term goal is to be able to communicate with you all on a regular basis. We are very excited about this Town Hall Meeting project and look forward to interacting with everyone in this new digital age!
Dear Airforum Members
Thank you for all your enthusiastic participationin our recent Q&A. We’ve gathered the questions and cleared the queue for the next round. When we are ready for round two we will open this back up to the members and you can start asking again. We look forward to the second round.
For round one, we had a range of questions from the nitty-gritty inner workings on the factory floor to inquiries about the furthest reaches of our dealer network.
Here is brief, general re-cap of the question categories: (in alphabetical order)
- Advertising
- Bob Wheeler
- Branding
- Build (or Quality Control and Durability including leaks, corrosion)
Sub categories including: · Construction · Custom Construction · QC (Quality Control) · Material Selection · New Models
- Dealer Network
- Design
- Marketing
- Parts
Sub Categories including: · Pre 80’s parts · Post 80 ‘s parts · Shipping and procurement
- Sales
- Social Networking
- Warranty
While we can’t answer all these questions the first time around, we will try to cover as many categories as we can. We’d like to think that this first step represents a new era of communication between Airstream and its customers.
Due to the overwhelming amount of questions and the limited availability of personnel, it’s going to take some time to sort and then film the responses. Be patient, and we’ll keep you posted about our progress.
Let me start by thanking all the folks that took time to submit questions, and AIRForums for hosting the discussion. We were a little overwhelmed by the number of responses we got, though considering the passion of the Airstream community maybe we shouldn’t have been. I’m sorry it took so long to post some responses, but it has taken some time to research your questions and put together answers. We trust it’s worth the wait.
Better Communication Makes Better Products.
We would really like to think of this as not just the start of a dialog, but a new era of enhanced communication that will allow us to provide better answers, products, and services, and allow you to participate in the process of making Airstream stronger, better, and more relevant. I will try to write the replies to your questions myself, as I have here, and will be as straightforward on an answer as my knowledge allows me to be.
You might wonder why this isn’t a videotaped response as we had indicated. Simply put, we quickly realized that we didn’t have the resources, or the time, to produce even a semi-professional video. Our Marketing Department currently has a population of two, and a video production was simply more than we could handle in a fashion that both addressed your questions and represented Airstream well. Plus, I’ve been told I have a face for radio.
Airstream: Big Name, Small Company.
First, a little about Airstream today. From some of the questions it’s clear that many of you haven’t had the chance to visit us here in Jackson Center, though we’d welcome that. Airstream has had a manufacturing plant in JC since 1952. Our current workforce is about 180 people, 140 of those in production and service and the balance in support functions (sales, accounting, engineering, purchasing, marketing, etc..). Many people assume we’re the size of GM, and while our parent company, Thor Industries, is the largest in the RV world, we’re a fairly small company despite our well-known name. We have campsites on location and give a free daily tour, so we’d encourage anyone in the area to stop by.
Vintage Airstream Information Now Available.
We got several questions and requests about providing more information about older and vintage units. In response, we had the opportunity recently to hire a co-op student to scan a mountain of old brochures, sales sheets, articles, photos, ads, etc.. that we have from our archives and make it available on at airstream.com in the Service/Customer Service section. And while we can’t address all the questions you raised so easily, this was one we felt we could solve pretty quickly. Enjoy, there is some pretty fascinating stuff here.
Airstream Quality Control Process.
Several of you asked about our quality control process. I’m happy to outline it below:
QC traveler: this is a checklist that travels with each trailer and motorhome as it goes through the production process. It has a page of things for each Group Leader (production line department head) to check before the unit leaves his station. At the end of the production line, this is our record that the unit was inspected carefully in each line station.
Water check: this is an in-line station in which each unit is sprayed for 45 minutes at high pressure to check to make sure that no leaks exist. Any leaks detected are repaired and rechecked.
Line Audits: these are daily inspections are performed by QC personnel in random stations to make sure certain key quality items (electrical connections, sealant application, etc..) are being performed correctly.
End-of-line inspect and clean: this is pretty much as it sounds. Every unit is inspected by QC personnel for both functional (LP, electrical, water, etc..) performance and for cosmetic flaws. Any deviations found are repaired and the unit is re-inspected.
Management Audit: this is a twice weekly inspection of a single unit by the senior management of the company. It serves to help maintain a common understanding of standards.
Quality Council: this is the oversight group for our QC process. We review tracking data from all sources of input (audits, end-of-line, warranty, water check), discuss particular improvement initiatives and changes needed.
Lean Manufacturing: this is the structure of the manufacturing side of the business. We use Lean principles and processes to communicate information through the ranks and track progress on improvement initiatives, among other things.
Those of you with a QC background may note that there is a fair amount of inspection in our process. While we do work issues back to their root cause and attempt to eliminate the problem at the source (vs. find and fix), such is the nature of an entirely hand-built product that a certain amount of inspection is unavoidable.
Why Are There Still Some Issues?
So with this thorough a process, how is it possible that customers still find things wrong with their units? First, an item that worked perfectly here in JC may develop a problem during its 200-2000 mile delivery “shakedown cruise” to the dealer or during the break-in period after it’s sold. Secondly, while some items clearly do or don’t work (a light, for example), there are many different opinions about what is acceptable for cosmetic items. What is the definition of sealant “neatly applied”? Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. With such items we miss the mark for some folks while others are perfectly happy. Thirdly, the quality expectations of our customers have risen dramatically in recent years, in some cases faster than our ability to keep up. Old school Airstreamers accepted that a few flaws were normal and packed a toolbox. Today, our customers expect their unit to perform like their Lexus. And that’s great, we accept the challenge (see sidebar below). And, finally, sometimes we just miss things. In 78 years we have never produced a “perfect” unit, though we build every single one with that goal. I apologize sincerely to those that might have had an issue during or even after the break-in period; we rely on our warranty and network of dealers to correct concerns to your satisfaction and with as little inconvenience as possible.
Sidebar: Though we are most often compared to a new, expensive car, a better analogy is that of a new house. Like Airstreams, houses are built by hand, and have almost as many complex systems as an Airstream. As such, when you move into a new house, you start a punch list of things that you want corrected; if they are repaired to your satisfaction, you’re generally happy.
Please DO NOT interpret these comments as a justification for any quality issues you may have experienced, I share them merely to provide context about our processes. We are constantly (and currently) using customer and warranty feedback to set quality standards here that reflect people’s changing expectations. We recognize that the bar has been raised, and we are equal to the challenge.
Bob W. Bio.
A few folks asked for more information about me personally. Though I’m not prone to talking about myself, here’s a short bio:
I was born and raised in upstate NY dairy country near Cooperstown (better known as the home of the Baseball Hall of Fame) in a very rural, agrarian setting. Though we weren’t RVers or campers per se, I grew up spending a great deal of time outdoors in one of the prettiest parts of the Empire State. I went to college at the University of Rochester and got my Mechanical Engineering degree in 1988, after which I went to work for GM at a huge, ancient axle plant in Buffalo. During my years at GM I got my MBA at the State University of NY at Buffalo. Shortly after I graduated, in 1993, I got a call from a headhunter who mesmerized me with tales of great opportunity in the RV industry at a big Fleetwood Motorhome plant in Decatur, IN, and I was soon headed westward. I spent 7 years there, several as the Director of Product Design and Development for the American Coach motorhome group. After a couple of stints at other Thor companies I landed at Airstream in 2002 in charge of Product Development and Engineering, and was promoted to President in 2005. I like to think of my career as “working my way down the food chain” from a giant company to a nicely-sized one. This job is challenging, gratifying, and rewarding, and it’s great to be associated with a product that I love, and the variety of people that Airstream has brought me in contact with has added immeasurable color to my life. Finally, I have a lovely wife and 3 boys (7, 5, and 2), all of whom love to use our Airstream.
Dealer Network
Based on some comments about the Airstream dealer network, I thought I’d provide some info. We currently have about 65 dealers of record, down from a high of about 92 three years ago. The economy over the last 2 years has been hard on RV dealerships in general (about 20%, or approx. 400 have gone under nationwide), and that has taken a toll on Airstream as well. During that time, we also have weeded out a few dealers that we didn’t feel were representing the brand well or were not providing an acceptable level of customer service. We are currently working actively to re-grow our dealer network, focusing on high-quality candidates, many of them “disenfranchised” car dealers. These businesses tend to have excellent facilities and understand how to deliver a high quality experience in both sales and service. We are also recruiting top RV dealers (including some service-only locations) in each open territory, as we would like for no one to have to drive an unreasonable distance to buy or have their Airstream serviced. With all our dealers, we have upgraded our standards and increased service and parts training, in addition to testing sales representatives for higher product knowledge in order to serve our customers more professionally.
Lower-priced and lighter weight products
We’ve been talking a lot about this here recently. We recognize that while our appeal may be broad, our price point is such that not everyone who wants one can afford our products. Younger people, especially, may not be able to justify the purchase of an Airstream, and over time that will limit us as a company. The Sport line has been a successful attempt to reduce both cost and weight (several of you commented about the trend toward tow vehicles with less towing capacity), and we are seeing a different customer (demographically speaking) drawn to that product line. We just introduced a 16’ Sport that breaks new ground for both price and weight. To reach even lower price points is a real challenge, and gets into some philosophical discussions about “what is an Airstream?”. The answers range from “aluminum silver bullet trailer” to “a lifestyle, a mindset, freedom and adventure” and everything in between. The Scout is an attempt to explore ultra-lightweight construction methods, and we’ve learned a lot from it. However, as soon as we make a flat-walled trailer, no matter how cutting-edge or different, we get compared with the white boxes from a pricing point of view. We wrestle with these issues daily.
Corrosion
This question takes a fair amount of research; as such we will try to answer related questions in future communications.
SPEED ROUND
Quick answers to some questions:
Flooring Our flooring is 5/8” Sturd-I-Floor (APA), Exposure 1 rated plywood, with WPB (water and boil proof) type bonding adhesive. Exposure 1 rating is designated for plywood which will withstand numerous wettings without separation and failure.
Customization
Our design and production process is such that it doesn’t lend itself to building custom products without great expense to the buyer. We rely on experienced aftermarket upfitters (such as Timeless Travel Trailers) to meet customers’ special needs.
Scratch Repair
An exterior scratch in the clear coat that does not damage the underlying metal can typically be repaired by buffing and recoating. A scratch that damages the underlying metal cannot be buffed out without making a shiny spot that will stand out from the rest of the unit.
New Classic Motorhome
We got pretty far down the road with this concept (designed by BMW) before realizing that it would be a $200K gas motorhome, a combination that just wouldn’t sell. As this was one of my projects, it still gives me a pang.
European trailer For the US
This unit was designed to meet the (very different) code requirements of the European market, mostly for weight and weight distribution. This trailer is significantly more expensive, by length, than any equivalent model we sell domestically. As such, we don’t feel it has much of a chance here, despite its other appealing qualities.
Construction Debris
We clean the units carefully before they leave JC, but some metal shavings and sawdust inevitably work their way out onto the floor over the first several hundred miles. Much of this starts out between the inner and outer skin, and vibrations causes it to drop and shimmy out from under cabinets. When our units were mostly carpet, it simply stayed out of sight. Now we’re about 95% vinyl flooring.
Whew. I apologize if we didn’t get to your question specifically; we tried to group questions by type and answer as many as we could for this round. And while the information provided may not always be what an individual wanted to hear, we trust that it will be received in the spirit intended, a spirit of open dialog and civil discourse.
Thanks for your questions, recommendations, suggestions….but most of all for your passion for a product and a lifestyle that, in some small way, transcends the ordinary.
Thanks again to AIRForums for hosting this discussion.
Bravo! a long time coming but a good start and excellent answers. This is what we need ,lets keep the line open it will benift us all. Thanks from this Airstream owner. As someone who worked with land Rover North America for a number of years through their early growth pains and QC issues and building high end custom furniture, I understand that with a hand made product everything isn't going to be perfect but.... the guys on the inside of the unit need to learn how to drive a screw in straight.
To reach even lower price points is a real challenge, and gets into some philosophical discussions about “what is an Airstream?”. The answers range from “aluminum silver bullet trailer” to “a lifestyle, a mindset, freedom and adventure” and everything in between.
Thank you very much for the insight -- great job!
This is even easier than you might imagine. The lifestyle and mindset emanate from all aluminum with round shiny corners. Freedom and adventure can be found in just about any SOB. The lifestyle and mindset is the direct result of the silver bullet, and we love it!
When Bentley starts making flat sided Scions, only then should Airstream consider... No, sorry, even then they shouldn't -- NOT EVER (again)...
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__________________
6000+ Airsteam families having fun!
1000+ Airstream Events including 500+ Rallies in 2009! SaveWally's WBCCI Unit Guide
I checked out the vintage manuals and reference materials at Airstream.com. This is a phenomenal resource and vintage owners will be grateful. It's also a testament to the history of Airstream and intrinsic value of these older rigs to see this kind info still available. Kudos.
__________________ 77 Argosy Minuet, 6 metre | 77 Argosy 24, Rear door AIR # 3181 | WBCCI # 5575
Thanks for the response Bob, lots of interesting and helpful information!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet
I checked out the vintage manuals and reference materials at Airstream.com. This is a phenomenal resource and vintage owners will be grateful. It's also a testament to the history of Airstream and intrinsic value of these older rigs to see this kind info still available. Kudos.
I agree. It's very nice to see these resources put online, that intern must have spent all day at the scanner!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to all of our questions.
As I told Jim and Randy on the phone, Airstream should have a registry page on its website, for owners to list their names, as well as year/model info of their coaches; this would promote Airstream's statement that over 60% of its trailers are still on the road today.
__________________ SFC Frederic Lynes 1971 Sovereign International 2004 F-350 King Ranch EX-WBCCI # 8371 AIR # 8239
Thanks for the response. It is good to see that the president of the company actually uses the product he oversees.
There are still questions to be answered and I look forward to the next installment.
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2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821 streamin across america
Since JC has all that old archived info at their fingertips then it shouldn't be a huge undertaking to expand their service to include the availability of vintage parts needed to restore/repair the older units. The demand is certainly there, we are just waiting for the company who wants to supply them and make the profit. Seems a no brainer to me. Just my 2 cents.
Actually I think it would be a huge undertaking for Arstream to supply vintage parts. There are other companies that have now taken over the role of providing vintage parts. Can you imagine a car company trying to sell and service new cars and providing parts to someting they made 30 years ago.For most vintage Airstream parts it wouldn't remotely be profitable for the number they would sell.
Thank you for answering some of the questions and responding to some of the comments. I hope there will be further posts as to the many, many specific things that were posted last June and July.
I want to comment on the QC issue and your statement:
"the quality expectations of our customers have risen dramatically in recent years, in some cases faster than our ability to keep up. Old school Airstreamers accepted that a few flaws were normal and packed a toolbox. Today, our customers expect their unit to perform like their Lexus. And that’s great, we accept the challenge (see sidebar below). And, finally, sometimes we just miss things. In 78 years we have never produced a “perfect” unit, though we build every single one with that goal. I apologize sincerely to those that might have had an issue during or even after the break-in period; we rely on our warranty and network of dealers to correct concerns to your satisfaction and with as little inconvenience as possible."
I am aware there is a similarity between a travel trailer and a house. Both have a large number of systems and a custom house or a tract home will have a long punch list. But an Airstream trailer is not a custom nor a tract house. It is a unit that very slowly evolves (sometimes too slowly) and stays pretty similar for many, many years. Even a tract house is not produced on an assembly line basis and is made to be cheap. The comparison with a Lexus only differs because one has an engine and transmission and the other does not. But the items that make a Lexus self propelled are extremely complex too, as much or more so than a travel trailer.
Today's autos and trucks are the best ever made and even the ones with the most reliability issues have far fewer QC issues than the RV industry's products. I wish my Safari had a "few flaws", but the number is more like scores. I "pack … a toolbox", but I shouldn't have to use it on a product sold as a premium RV. I don't have a Lexus, but I have had many Toyotas and for them, I do not need a toolbox. Some Toyotas have had no things break over periods as long as six years; others a few things.
I appreciate the outline of your QC program. I am wondering about a few things: do the QC people have direct authority from the CEO and are they independent of the factory? Without such independence, their jobs are on the line. Are they engineers, recruited from outside the company, or inspectors promoted from within with friendships among the factory employees? Does the Quality Council have representatives from your repair shop, dealers and customers on it? A company with a tradition as long as Airstream's has the possibility of becoming inbred—a Quality Council is a good place to bring in new blood from customers and your best dealers.
I also appreciate your apology for all the troublesome warranty issues I have had. I will be in JC in mid to late October to have another lengthy list fixed. I hope to meet you and no personal apology is needed. I would be glad to discuss this and other issues with you or anyone in management.
The most concrete thing Airstream can do is extend warranties because of the issues we have had. This issue goes back many years now and I think it is a great step forward it is being faced today. Extending warranties is hardly a low cost answer in the short term, but should pay in the long term. I don't know if you are aware, but many people have expressed on the Forum in the past year they will not buy a new Airstream because of QC and corrosion issues. Google "Airstream" and "quality control" or similar issues, and the Forum posts pop up. The internet has changed the game and brings people together to compare and analyze potential purchases. Those who explicitly say they will never buy a new Airstream are people who post—a large multiple reads the posts, never posts and never buys. The company may have lost millions in sales just this year. This is a serious issue and one that has to be reversed quickly for a company as small as Airstream.
I can only speak for myself, but others have expressed the same view—we want to see Airstream thrive and prosper. We offer our suggestions in that spirit.
I look forward to more news from you. An active conversation with Airstream owners can only help us all (and could bring some good PR for the company).
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