Town Hall Meeting - Q&A with Airstream

[clydecrashcu]

Originally Posted by RangerJay

Mr. Wheeler,

I believe Uncle Wally would approve of the manner in which you are now reaching out to your customer.

Anyone involved in public planning around controversial issues will tell you that when you invite public comment you are figuratively standing in front of the crowd and saying "shoot me".

You need a thick skin.

None of the feedback you have heard should be interpreted as hostility - but - you do need to read those negative responses as expressions of high frustration.

I think you can appreciate that the expensive purchase of a high-end product comes with high expectations - and when those expectations are not met - and the manufacturer's response is one that appears to run away from responsibility - then expressions of high frustration is really the only response you are going to get.

You've taken a great step forward in addressing the issues and the frustrations those issues have created - but you need to recognize that your customers are going to take advantage of the opportunity to vent - and you need to listen.

Bottom lines?: put your customers back on the pedestal - listen to them - take your licks when they are do - get past them - learn from the mistakes - deal with the issues - and build a better product for tomorrow.

Airstream has been around for a long time - and there is no one who doesn't want it to be around for a much longer time to come.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment - thanks for listening - and I really look forward to enjoying my Bambi for many more years to come.


Jay

I also believe and have done a town meeting scenario before and a person does have to take what comes at them. Comments are not always positive as we would like; but, the comments are food for thought. If a person in a top position doesn't want to keep abreast of what is happening then they shouldn't ask. If a product doesn't keep it's quality up to standards then the company more than likely won't stay in business long. A person doesn't always have to react quickly to comments or at all. It is good to be proactive rather than reactive and I think that is what I believe Bob Wheeler is trying to do.

[PeeWee]

Unlike many of the people that reply to Bob Wheeler, he definitely is a gentleman. Someday, if you are fortunate, you will meet him and know what I'm talking about. Also he has a great pedigree in the RV Industry and knows what is required to manage Airstream. Also he is a Vintage enthusiast and appreciates the past, and is realistic about the future. Do not take lightly what Bob brings to the table. He is exceptionally responsible when in comes to the Airstream product. He is Airstream Blue through and through.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by OB Bambi

There is a thread somewhere that concludes that Simple Green for some reason isn't a good wash product for Airstreams.
Randy

Been using SG since new, no problems at all, just rinse well and keep surface clean and sealed. A litttle wdfty on the seams, seems to keep the ff at bay,..... at least as well as that biostuff.

[Mexray]

Being a 'vintage' AS owner, many of the 'New Trailer' issues aren't in my hemisphere...

That being said, it's refreshing to read Bob's comments on these issues, published here in the open, 'warts' and all, as it were - and that AS is making an effort to give some of our constructive comments their consideration...

Let's not forget, the Mfg process is a complicated process, with new materials and vendor components coming into the 'light' every year...some of these 'upgrades' or changes take time to accomplish, especially during the current economic climate when many factories are trying to keep their people employed and return some kind of profit...

I enjoyed reading Bob's comments about the water pump installation -one of my long time RV Mfg. concerns - I look forward to seeing what they come up with - a more accessible location for field repairs of an item that only fails when we're using our rigs on the road - along with the noise issue - better sound isolation should be designed into this system right from the factory, IMHO...

Thanks again, Bob for your comments...

Ray Cellar

[till]

I am truly impressed with what Mr. Wheeler is doing with this thread. I know that the trailers being built today will be the vintage ones we enjoy later.

One of these days I have to go to the mother ship and see the birth first hand.

[elfirebob]

Bob,
Bob U- says thanks for the response, open dialog and the products you represent. On my secon NEW Airstream and just bought my first OLD trailer, thanks for posting useful info on both.
The euro influence is going to more pronounced in future I think. Your current lines seem to hit the widest range of customer, Classics to the Sports, there is something for everyone.
One continued suggestions is the support for the vintage and clubs is a must. We continue to buy and will carry you in the end...
Stream Safe,
Bob 'n Nanc-
See our Pics and Travels in the AIR Forums Gallery...

[Foiled Again]

Oh, do I really want to do this?

OK, better judgment off. Fingers typing.

I go inside most SOB's and am flawlessly polite. Then I go home and kiss my Airstream. It's lovely, and better built than most SOB's, but there IS real room for improvement - without costing a huge amount.

I live by the Atlantic Ocean. I wash my Airstream thoroughly about once a year. I have a bit of filoform. SURPRISE SURPRISE! So does every aluminum screen door and storm window in a 50 mile radius. See an old Airstream with the clearcoat worn off, and by golly, it's going to have filoform on it too. See an old Avion that's anodized and it will look pretty darn decent when washed and shined. It will also look like PEWTER not like silver. If I want it to look nicer I need to be away from the ocean and or wash it and wax it more regularly.

I use my Airstream and I live in it. It's not yard art. However it is pretty pricy for a trailer, and I will have to admit that the 27 FB CCD that I've been dreaming about might NOT actually be in my future. While I really love how Airstreams tow vs. SOB's I am getting closer and closer to going over to the Vintage Side and paying someone to refurb one for me rather than buying a new or nearly new one. I can still afford to buy a new one, but want to know what it will take to make me bite the bullet and trade in the current one?

• to tell the truth, looking monoque may be better than being monoque. The frame separation, bent and broken frame stories are giving me the willies... especially on the shorties like the 22's I'd be a lot happier with a beefier frame, and a lighter interior than the current models offer. If I do a vintage frame off restoration, I'll decide how strong the new frame needs to be. The factory however, gets nada.
• a rot free floor. LOOKING vintage doesn't mean not improving anything for 50 years! The curve has changed, the floor needs to change too. On my last tour of the factory I got a good look at the plastic wheel wells being used. Uh. ................... I was beyond underwhelmed. Do I think cheap wheel wells poorly installed could be contributing to leaks and floor rot. Yes.
• Banish OSB floors completely- (supposedly only on the 16 & 19 footers now, but could have been used on the 22's a few years back). Now I'm a "girl" who never took a shop class, but I do have eyes and can see how OSB droops in the racks at Home Depot. Weak frame PLUS OSB, and just add one little leak... jeepers your floor just turned into papier mache. Monoque - frame, body and floor work together to support the structure - Guess I just figured out why the frames break on the 2002-2004 22 footers.
• PRESSURE test for leaks at the factory, both in manufacturing and in repair. 3 months after I paid the factory to fix my leak around the rear window, I finally found the real source and fixed it with a pressure test. Bubbles on outside = leaky spot. Do I think miniscule leaks contained between the inside and outside walls could be contributing to floor and frame failures. No, I know it is.
• I am mildly disappointed in the taillight bezels because of the corrosion, but that seems to me to be an issue of standing water. The filoform forms on the center top of the flat piece that sticks out. I'd bet if you remolded that so that the water ran off to the sides the problem would cease.
• Lighten up the interior. My medicine cabinet door broke at the right top hinge within a few months of buying it. Fewer than 1000 miles on the road. The door is 3/4 inch plywood or MDF with a mirror on it. Holding it in place while I repaired it made it feel like it weighed 50 lbs. That could be engineered SO much lighter it's pitiable.
• Drawer fronts are again 3/4 inch ply, screwed onto a steel drawer. I saw a forum member here who used lightweight steel mesh closet drawers and routed "slides" for them out of the sides of a cabinet he built. In my 25 FB I have a short closet with two drawers under it... Having one long door on that with two or three of those mesh drawers at the bottom would probably save another 50 lbs, plus I could elect to remove the drawers and have a long closet.
• I saw a very nice vintage unit with no drawer pulls. Instead the drawer top had a "U" shaped slot cut out of the center where your fingers could fit in to open the drawer. (Less costly AND lighter weight) But you would have to finish the drawer front edges better than they are done in the Safari line.
• The bed frame is Very heavy and clunky - Really liked Uve's one made out of aluminum. Looked plenty strong.
• The sliding doors on the overhead cabinets on the CCD leave roomier inside cabinets and lighter weight than either the Classic or the Safari/Flying Cloud.
• I'd love to have more adjustability on the dinettes. To me the table height is too high, however sawing off the leg and lowering the table brace by two inches leaves holes in the wall (I know, rivet them.) A few Airstreams and most SOBs don't attach the table to the wall the same way that Airstream does. I saw one Classic at Colonial's website that had a moveable table (slid sideways on a track on the wall and four side chairs. MUCH better layout. Make that standard, or a factory option. I sew and use a computer a lot. Would like to be able to slide the table away from me. Would also like to adjust the table height for different tasks (28' for sewing and using laptop is better. I put a hydraulic lift on my current one. On the side dinettes, they are very tight for tall people, On the CCD's there is no reason why those benches couldn't be mounted so that they could be moved a few inches to allow tall ones more knee room. Use some kind of shackle that could be loosened and tightened by hand (I'm envisioning the locks on my dad's army footlocker.)
• I am mildly disappointed in the taillight bezels because of the corrosion, but that seems to me to be an issue of standing water. The filoform forms on the center top of the flat piece that sticks out. I'd bet if you remolded that so that the water ran off to the sides the problem would cease.
• seal the raw edge of the beltline before it was riveted on, it will stop the corrosion there. That can of CorrosionX I got at the factory does seem to be working. Why isn't using the stuff part of the manufacturing process itself? Really it isn't rocket science... and it might not be a permanent cure, but if you could keep the filoform from appearing for 10 years, the average owner will have bunged up something else badly enough that filoform won't be the "big" issue.
• Find a furnace that doesn't drain a 30lb propane cylinder in 2 days.
• give me a SMEV cooktop

Airstreams lack the huge capacity for storage that moho's and and SOB's have, and aluminum has a tendancy to corrode and dent easily. But oh, it rides so sweet. Nothing is perfect or permanent. But Airstream needs to be better than it is.

Paula

[Paul&Dee]

We've only had our Airstream since last March, but it is so much better than our previous SOB. We bought a plain old Safari rear bedroom. One thing the SOB would do was run the tongue jack from the Tow Vehicle when the battery was dead. I was surprised when the Airstream wouldn't do that.

But going along with the lighter weight idea, I would love to see what the designers at Ikea would come up with for an Airstream. They have their store setup with rooms for living in 300 square feet, etc. An Ikea interior should be great looking, light weight and affordable.

Thanks,
Paul & Dee

[ROBERT CROSS]

PLEASE....someone show me a picture of filiform on a uncoated AS.

The door hinges, battery surrounds, bezels, handles and wheels are not the "filiform" I'm worried about,(not really fili at all), I have fixed all of them myself.

It's whats NOT fixable that irks me.

Thru trial and error we seem to have stalled any significant progress, but that in no way improves what has allready occurred.

And yes, it is nice that we have re-established contact with the Mother-ship.

Ground Control to Major Bob....

[StingrayL82]

While I do appreciate the fact that Mr. Wheeler has taken the time to respond to the concerns/complaints posted, I get the feeling that, because testing has been done to address filiform, the conversation is now closed on that topic.

I've been in love with tin cans, since I was a kid, whether it be Airstreams, Avions, Silver Streaks or Streamlines; I've owned two of the aforementioned brands, and I can tell you that each has its merits, but I can also tell you that these brands were better built than the new Airstreams. Brooke and I have gone to several RV dealerships that sell Airstreams, and when I go inside I see a SOB. I don't see the unique interior that distinguishes it from other brands....the interiors are very boring.

Our Sovereign is almost 40 years old now, and it got its first face lift at the age of 34. Like many other products sold today, I don't see the new Airstreams hanging on that long. They just don't build em like they used to. I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt I will be.

There was one last point I wanted to make, but what I don't want to do is get into a peeing contest about it, so I've rewritten it. I will say, in general terms, that it's disheartening to read posts by people who blindly defend the product and the people behind it, without taking into account the hard-earned money spent to buy said product, and saying that it's negativity. Put yourself into their shoes for a minute and take the time to understand their frustrations.

By the way, Bob, I know you weren't around in the Beatrice days, but we love our Airstream and have no major issues. It would be nice, if you guys had more parts for the older rigs, though.

[MrRivet]

Thanks to Mr. Wheeler and Airstream Inc. for the open ear to this forum. I am normally one of the silent members who only read the threads from this forum and try to absorb and process the vast amount of information from the posting members. From the first day of logging onto AirForums and reading about issues that Airstream owners were having, I continually have asked myself, where is the Airstream Company and are they not listening to the issues that the owners of these great American icons have. I feel that that your stepping forward to offer this exchange of information is invaluable and necessary to the secure the future success of Airstream in these hard economic times. Without objectively listening to your past, current and future customer’s input; I feel that it could be detrimental to the future of the Company.
Even though an Airstream is not a Fire Truck, over the 30 years that I have been in the fire service, I have seen many Fire Truck and Ambulance manufacturers come and go. The few manufacturers that have remained successful have learned that listening to the customer is the keystone to their success as well as a good dealer system with quick response to warranty issues. I have been involved in purchasing both types of these emergency vehicles and what I have witnessed is that the manufacturers that continued to only provide what they thought was the “Right Truck” and not listening to the input from the end user are no longer in business or are about to close down production.
An example of a truly successful vehicle manufacturer is Pierce Manufacturing located in Appleton, Wisconsin. They are completely open to listening to the customer and currently are manufacturing a line of fire trucks designed mostly from customer input. They also have a solid customer service program and dealer base. This is not intended as a sales pitch for this company but only a good representation of a successful company that has been in business since 1913.
Another invaluable part of the success equation is a good dealer base. What I have experienced with our local Airstream dealer is the lack of product knowledge and no response from questions asked. I’m not familiar with Airstreams interaction with its local dealer network but it would seem appropriate that Airstream would make sure that it’s representing service personnel at the dealer level were adequately trained and knowledgeable. They are the direct contact that we see representing the Airstream Company. If you have a bad regional dealer offering poor customer support, replace them. We see them as the Airstream Company and it directly reflects on the Airstream Company and portrays a bad image to present and future owners.
We currently own a 2004 28’ International CCD from which I could add to the issues listed in the previous posts but I would be beating a dead horse (frame, corrosion, window and door seals, floor rot, etc.). From our experience with this unit and the work that I have and will be soon be having to complete on it, I feel that we would have been better off to buy a vintage unit knowing that I would have to work on what I would consider major issues from the beginning. This is pretty sad for a 5 year old unit. I hope that my opinion will change from our future experiences, but only time will tell.
I hope that this exchange of information and input from the Airstream owners and the Airstream Company and their response will result in better customer relations and future success for the Company. If this information exchange is not successful, and God forbid the Airstream Company fails, the Airstream Community will continue.
It is not a RV, it’s a Lifestyle.
Thanks again Mr. Wheeler for opening this potentially successful portal for customer and Airstream Company contact.
Regards
Tim W.

[CrawfordGene]

I have been mulling over Bob Wheeler's post for a while. Having spent some time with him a couple of weeks ago I had some idea what the post would say, so no real surprises to me. I can also report he is not a giant space alien lizard who eats Airstreams for lunch and school children for dinner.

As he said, it's not easy being president of an icon. No matter what you do, you are attacked. I made a number of suggestions for improvements, not all of which were easy to hear for him, but he did listen and did write a lot of things down (among them the water pump placement and noise issue).

I know they are listening at JC and the process of communicating with the owners is painful for them. I think the company is only now becoming aware of how many angry and disappointed owners there are.

What company has ever tried something like this? They don't teach this in MBA school. Just starting this process of dialogue is unique and though I want results yesterday, I know it takes time to establish something so different. Any productive dialogue is hard and there are times of anger and accusations. Having been involved in negotiations in legal disputes many times, it is similar—you just stay focused on what's important and not slug anyone. It's still painful at times.

I will be the first to say I am very unhappy with the QC issues and want more from Airstream. I put a lot of thought into how to make things better and feel no remorse about expressing my discomfort about QC to Bob Wheeler and others at JC. I hope things improve, not just for future buyers, but for those of us who already own an Airstream and are unhappy and don't want to have to pay for future repairs that are the result of poor quality and workmanship. Now that would be change we can all agree with.

I have suggested more than once—and did to Wheeler—that an owners' group of advisors to help Airstream identify problems and solutions would be a very workable idea. Just how it would work requires some thought, but anything new does.

Gene

[Airslide]

Good post Gene,

Working for Volvo corp. we have a dealer board and focus groups. This kind of interaction has been very well received. The problem with this exchange is that the body language has been removed. So much of what we say or the way we say it is left to perception as there is no eye to eye contact. I think Mr Wheeler would feel less threatened (i would hope) if he was part a working group with the folks experiencing current product issues. Then someone could post the minutes of the meeting and the timeline for specific actions.

Its a beginning.

Vinnie

[kmtyme]

I agree...Ikea has some great cabinets, sofas, accessories, etc...