Thanks Bob, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to a few questions.
FYI, I think Airstream really needs to get a handle on the filiform corrosion issues many are having. At the very least please tell us what you are planning to do about it.
Strikes me that this thread was begun as an acknowledgement (by the President of the company that makes the product we are all here to discuss) of the work they began some months ago, and it was NOT, in my book, another place where we could post more long diatribes about how we could do it better.
If we want to continue this extraodinary conversation with the top management person at Airstream, then I firmly believe that it behooves us to stop heaping scorn on his efforts to acknowledge the difficulties, along with some of the action items he plans to take to reduce them.
Let's try to get along, let's try to keep this a non-adversarial interaction: you know that we will lose if we don't succeed in being helpful.
In his place, I would just drop the initiative and "hang up the phone" if all I got was vitriolic derision.
The time to list the problems is over. The company has identified their plans. Let's give them a chance to move on them.
In real life, I'm the administrator of a small city. I've seen "diatribes," "vitriol" and "derision." In my day, I've seen everything this side of torches and pitchforks. I only wish our occasional unhappy resident was as polite, constructive and patient as the members of the Airforums who have posted here.
It should not be "extraordinary" for customers to have a dialogue with top management. It should be routine. CEOs (or public officials) should not be insulated from customers or constituents. They should not be protected by the marketing department or the public relations department or 17 layers of bureaucracy. In my experience, the best CEOs are the one who understand the natural tendency for employees to "buffer" them from bad news. And they cut through the fog by going out and asking customers, "How are we doing"? They listen to the answers and they make changes.
If Airstream was sitting on top of the customer satisfaction ratings, Bob Wheeler could swing by for a victory lap. If they had decisively resolved the filiform corrosion problem, he could take a bow, shake a few hands and maybe sign a picture or two. The simple fact of the matter, however, is that Airstream faces the AMF-Harley Davidson problem. And it is no small irony that Airstream is looking for an answer HD found in the post AMF years:
"Rather than trying to match the Japanese, the new management deliberately exploited the "retro" appeal of the machines, building motorcycles that deliberately adopted the look and feel of their earlier machines and the subsequent customizations of owners of that era. Many components such as brakes, forks, shocks, carburetors, electrics and wheels were outsourced from foreign manufacturers and quality increased, technical improvements were made, and buyers slowly returned...." HD Wiki quote
I'm very good at what I do... but each and every day I learn something from our customers. It's not that they can do my job better than me, but they have information vital to our success. They know what they want. And no matter how good a job I think we're doing, the only thing that matters is how good of job they think we're doing.
My tendency towards candor is not limited to Internet forums. I'm plain spoken in real life, far more than most expect from a petty bureaucrat. And I've heard the "Oh, my goodness, you just can't say that" to the Governor or the Senator or some other divine entity that walks not only on water, but on a light mist. I've seen my share of aides and minions blanch thinking a lightning bolt was about to strike... and yet, here I am.
One should speak truth to power. Good leaders appreciate thoughtful candor. Bad ones, well, they deserve to fail... which is quite often what happens when our society and markets are free.
Maintaining Airstream.com for us Vintage owners ain't real hard. There just isn't that much there, but Airstream could at least keep the few things that are there working properly.
Rant over. Sorry if I stepped on any toes out there in cyber land.
Jim
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Can somebody remind Susan that I really do want bagpipes for Christmas?
Sandy and I decided that it would be nice to get wet again after an extended absence.
This is the result of our research, first rate QC and it showed when visiting the Factory. It also is "hand made", just different hands I guess.
"The Impeccable Quality of Allison Boats
The best of design and engineering processes must be teamed with exceptional materials and quality craftsmanship to obtain a uniquely useful, durable, and efficient product. Allison boasts the industries' first and only welded and laminated Alloy grid transom reinforcement. Allison was first to eliminate transom rot from the list of boat owners' woes. Metal transom reinforcement with no wood structure was perfected at Allison in the early eighties. Another significant first for Allison set an industry standard. In conjunction with the reinforced No-Rot transom, Allison simultaneously in the eighties removed all wood from the boat structure. Just in the last few years many other companies have started trying to emulate this standard. The Allison difference is a twenty year head start. The best design, engineering, and materials cannot build a superior product without an unusually high build quality.
At Allison, build quality is the product and responsibility of a few highly trained and experienced craftsmen. If you visit our plant on Monday and then again on Friday, chances are you will see most of the same boats at a slightly different level of completion. Hand fitment by skilled craftsmen of virtually every part of structure, superstructure, and each accessory assures the absolute highest quality boat available at any price. Each process is checked, checked again and then inspected. Each Allison Bass Boat for example, is the product of four to five times the man hours required to build our competitors' similar sized boat. Hand lay-up of every ounce of cloth and resin is time consuming. So is the process of removing every extra ounce of unnecessary resin from the lay-up. Only with such measures can you build a truly exceptional and world class boat. Only one boat holds the most single engine world speed records. Only one Bass Boat can guarantee his owner to be the first to the fishing hole. Only Allison takes the care to design, engineer, and craft from the finest materials available a boat that will last your lifetime. That is the Allison Difference."
Let me start by again thanking the AIRForums for hosting this thread and its members for their submissions. This is the second round of answers to you questions, as well as some response to the dialog generated by the first round:
As I read the thread, I thought it worthwhile to correct some misperceptions:
I read all the responses myself. There is no “marketing filter”, whatever that may be. The communications were posted under the Airstream Marketing name only because they had an existing registered account.
This dialog is not a marketing survey, as was suggested. In such a survey, we would be asking you the questions. It is simply a way to understand the wants and needs of our customer base, and to communicate a bit more about what is happening here at Airstream.
With regards to my response about QC, allow me to quote the most relevant part: “Please DO NOT interpret these comments as a justification for any quality issues you may have experienced, I share them merely to provide context about our processes. We are constantly (and currently) using customer and warranty feedback to set quality standards here that reflect people’s changing expectations. We recognize that the bar has been raised, and we are equal to the challenge.”
Corrosion
While this issue doesn’t appear to be widespread, we have seen occurrences of what is called filiform corrosion on some travel trailer components, namely grab handles, tail light bezels, and side sheet/window sheet seams. Since this issue was raised we have been doing a lot of investigating, both of our processes and those of certain key suppliers to try to identify if a common root cause exists. During the course of our investigation we have tested the affected materials for, among other things, composition and electrical potential, coating application, surface preparation, and coating composition. We have conducted, in conjunction with our suppliers, hundreds of hours of salt spray and other corrosion testing as we evaluated theories which might point to a cause. We have even had the water in our factory leak test booth evaluated to make sure it contained nothing that might promote corrosion. In the end, we found nothing that might suggest a common root cause. Since this corrosion, when it appears, tends to involve a variety materials and components on different parts of the trailer which are purchased from different suppliers, it suggests a broader environmental cause.
We do know that many states are now using much more aggressive de-icing agents on their roadways These new chemicals are presenting new challenges to all over-the-road products, and their effects, both short- and long-term, are not yet fully understood. We are working with our suppliers to prevent future corrosion issues, regardless of the cause.
Corrosion can be controlled by proper maintenance of your trailer (as discussed in the owner’s manual), such as thoroughly cleaning the exterior of a trailer after contamination from road de-icers or other chloride sources, such as campsites near salt water. Washing and waxing/sealing of your Airstream may need to be performed on a more frequent basis depending on the environment in which it is used. Be sure to use a neutral pH cleaner (such as Shaklee Basic H or some Simple Green products) and rinse thoroughly after washing. Applying a protective product like Walbernize or automotive wax and polymer sealants to the exterior surfaces of the trailer is also recommended.
So what about your existing rig? Although corrosion is expressly not covered by your warranty both because of the wide variety of environmental conditions and the wide variety of upkeep a trailer might experience, we have been trying to come up with something fair. We’ve got some reasonable shared-cost solutions for the items mentioned above (grab handle, tail light bezel, side sheet seam). If you have a trailer of model year 2006 or newer with issues with any of these components, please contact Airstream customer service at 1-937-596-6111 ext. 7411 or ext. 7409 to discuss.
Keys
We had a couple of questions about keys and duplicates. There are 50 different key/lock combinations for our current door latch, and 100 combinations for the deadbolt.
Tires
Some people asked about upgrading their tires to those with greater load capacity, and the potential effect on ride. We currently use Goodyear Marathon ST225/75R15 D rated tires on most of our trailers. These tires are rated at 2540 Lb. max load at 65 psi. When we spec a tire we base it on the capacity of the axle to which it is mounted. If a customer wanted to replace the D-rated tires with ones of greater capacity, they can do so remembering that often the wheel is also rated and the tire shop may not be willing to mount the new tire on the same rim. Goodyear E-rated tires require 80 psi typically, vs. 65 psi for D’s. Regardless of the capacity of the tire and wheel, in no case should the trailer be loaded over its rated GVWR. The “ride” of the trailer is dictated less by the tire than by the rubber torsion axle, so changing tire capacities (and pressures) should have little impact on ride
Water Pumps
There were several comments and questions about water pumps. We are currently performing a comprehensive review of water pump installation, with an eye toward accessibility and noise. We install such pumps to the manufacturer’s specs, but there may be more we can do to make them quieter.
In Closing…
Overall, I’m a little unsure about whether this dialog is providing value to the AIRForums community, or even to Airstream as a company. I was really surprised by the hostility seen in some of the replies. After all, we all share a common love of Airstream and the lifestyle that goes with it. If our straightforward attempt to answer questions only serves to make people angry, we may be doing more harm than good. It is disappointing that the cynics seem to be shouting down those of you that might view this exchange in a more positive light. To those of you who expressed support of our effort only to be made targets yourselves, I both thank you and apologize for your treatment.
Thanks for the info Bob. I am sure I can speak for many of the members here that it's comforting to know the Mothership is listening and making an effort to find solutions.
I am willing to wager if you were to make a limited run of say 10 or 20 for e.g., that they all would sell on pre-order!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream Marketing
New Classic Motorhome
We got pretty far down the road with this concept (designed by BMW) before realizing that it would be a $200K gas motorhome, a combination that just wouldn’t sell. As this was one of my projects, it still gives me a pang.
Communication is always better than no communication. Back that up with 'you'll never please everyone', and you'll see that you're right on track! I would hope that anyone having an issue beyond your explanations would send you a PM with the exceptions so that you could have somebody take a specific look at their issue.
Even though our units are both Vintage units, it's great to see Airstream fully engaged on the Internet...
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In Closing…
Overall, I’m a little unsure about whether this dialog is providing value to the AIRForums community, or even to Airstream as a company. I was really surprised by the hostility seen in some of the replies. After all, we all share a common love of Airstream and the lifestyle that goes with it. If our straightforward attempt to answer questions only serves to make people angry, we may be doing more harm than good. It is disappointing that the cynics seem to be shouting down those of you that might view this exchange in a more positive light. To those of you who expressed support of our effort only to be made targets yourselves, I both thank you and apologize for your treatment.
Again, thanks for your time.
Travel well,
Bob Wheeler
President
Airstream Inc.
Dear Bob,
I am MORE than amazed that you are surprised that some of your customers have provided feedback that you solicited as HOSTILE.
Yes, why on earth would anyone who parts with up to $90.000 or more dollars to become a privileged owner of a travel trailer that is touted by the manufacturer to offer the best longevity of any such product on the market be hostile toward said manufacturer when responses to their obvious problems that NEVER existed in prior models are dismissed as being a result of a "broader environmental cause".
Hmmm.
Do you really think that the people who are indeed your devoted loyal customers will "buy" this response to their more than plaintive requests for support from the factory?
Given the amount of complete loyalty that the vast majority of Airstream owners on this and other forums offer your company it seems to me that when an issue such as "filliform" raises its ugly head these folks are ENTITLED to something more than "market speak" spin.
To say that your response to this issue is disappointing is more than an understatement.
I for one cannot help but wonder what the intent of Airstream was when the the tread was originally posted. Did you honestly expect to receive responses that said that Airstream was great and there were absolutely no problems at all?
For me, the value of this thread is understanding the official Airstream corporate view of the products it sells, at very high prices ,to its customers.
It would appear that if "we all share a common love of Airstream and the lifestyle that goes with it" this means that we, the customers who have invested a significant amount of money in your product, are not expected to reply in an open an honest manner expressing frustrations that we have encountered.
I can only hope that what you have written, above, is NOT really what you meant and that you will review what you wrote and respond. While I may be wrong, I do not believe that I am the only one to be extremely disappointed in your response.
For the record, we have had no such problems with our 2008, 30' Classic and have found that the warranty support offered at the factory in Jackson Center has been "above and beyond" our expectations; in other words, exemplary.
Our experience has been diametrically opposed to that which those who are suffering the "filliform" issues are going through.
Curiously yours,
Jim
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We are travelers with an attitude. We get to go anywhere, anytime, and have attitudes about what we see and hear.
"Travel is fatal to bigotry, prejudice and being narrow minded."
I see why Bob Wheeler might not want to roll over with all four paws in the air about filiform. Given the fact that problem solving in America has taken the litigious route, he might as well stop building trailers and start paying lawyers.
Anybody who doesn't think that corporations don't want to spend all their time and money supporting lawyers obviously bumped their head real hard when they fell off the turnip truck.
I believe Uncle Wally would approve of the manner in which you are now reaching out to your customer.
Anyone involved in public planning around controversial issues will tell you that when you invite public comment you are figuratively standing in front of the crowd and saying "shoot me".
You need a thick skin.
None of the feedback you have heard should be interpreted as hostility - but - you do need to read those negative responses as expressions of high frustration.
I think you can appreciate that the expensive purchase of a high-end product comes with high expectations - and when those expectations are not met - and the manufacturer's response is one that appears to run away from responsibility - then expressions of high frustration is really the only response you are going to get.
You've taken a great step forward in addressing the issues and the frustrations those issues have created - but you need to recognize that your customers are going to take advantage of the opportunity to vent - and you need to listen.
Bottom lines?: put your customers back on the pedestal - listen to them - take your licks when they are do - get past them - learn from the mistakes - deal with the issues - and build a better product for tomorrow.
Airstream has been around for a long time - and there is no one who doesn't want it to be around for a much longer time to come.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment - thanks for listening - and I really look forward to enjoying my Bambi for many more years to come.
Jay
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