Thank you for answering some of the questions and responding to some of the comments. I hope there will be further posts as to the many, many specific things that were posted last June and July.
I want to comment on the QC issue and your statement:
"...Old school Airstreamers accepted that a few flaws were normal and packed a toolbox. Today, our customers expect their unit to perform like their Lexus. ..."
Gene
I'm not "Old School" and I am not handy enough to make repairs to my Airstream. Apply laminate glue, I can do this, but the issues that others have had with their Airstream is way beyond my limited level of competency. While I don't want to be chauvinistic, what about the women who buy Airstreams? If I don't know how to fix it, I'm sure there are many ladies that couldn't repair some of the issues that I have seen others report on this forum. I know my mom couldn't and I know I can't either. Yes, I carry a tool box, but that is for things like checking torque on my lug nuts (I bought a torque wrench just for this purpose) and I can change a blown fuse. But there are significant design flaws that I shouldn't have to pay out thousands of dollars to correct (axles that aren't sufficient to do the job, reinforcement of structure around the main storage compartment, filaform corrosion, installing items that were left out during production (my satellite pre-wire wasn't installed at the factory and I'm talking about one of the last 30' Safari Bunks made in 2006 not a unit made 10 years ago when no one dreamed of having satellite television at a camp site. The list goes on, but the point is, these are design/engineering issues that aren't being addressed by the entity responsible: Airstream, Inc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverleeper
I don't understand. Voting in the United States is primarily done anonymously. This is a public forum and I don't see the connection between posting a response and casting a vote. I believe the the view count should be looked at as a vote. It's anonymous and it shows strong interest in this subject.
While this is a public forum, we all have the opportunity to be anonymous. I don't know your last name or address and you don't know mine. The only reason we know each other's first name is that we both have elected to put our name in our signature lines or avitars. I know this doesn't make the correlation to voting any more than it was before.
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I love Airstreams, and always will. We have two, and are always looking to rescue some more under-appreciated or neglected American icons. Heck, we just visited JC, did the factory tour, and enjoyed the experience so much we stayed an extra day. We plan to go back the next time we're in the area. I've always been as objective as possible when describing both the positive and negative experiences with my dealership, and Jackson Center. Despite being stonewalled by both on most of the defects during the two year warranty period, I remain a steadfast fan of Airstreams.
OK, I "voted". So, I guess by the thought process of some, I'm entitled to comment on the Airstream Town Hall Meeting (or marketing survey?). I was hoping there would be something in the response to help change my mind about never buying another new Airstream, or trading up. There wasn't. Out of tremendous respect for the requests by the forum owner, administrators, and especially Airstream Marketing, to keep this discourse civil, respectful, and factual, I have this to say about the relevancy, and sincerity, of the response in relation to the many issues and suggestions offered by forum members...
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Well, there's another reason folks aren't responding here. Airstream doesn't make a heckofalotta parts for 36 year old Airstreams (like ours). I don't expect them to, although it would be really cool if they did. A huge number of forum members own vintage, not new.
If this little exchange between corporate and US here on the forums can fix the corrosion problems with the skins and frames on the newer Airstreams, I think a bunch got accomplished here. A home run would be getting the QC issues taken care of as well. But, like I say, we own a vintage, not new.
Jim
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If you can't fix it with a hammer or a rivet, you have an electrical problem.
The grandslam would be if Airstream opened up a division that made reproduction parts for our vintage coaches....kinda like a Year One or Classic Industries type of division, but still have it in house. I'm pretty sure that would boost Airstream's revenue.
__________________ SFC Frederic Lynes 1971 Sovereign International 2004 F-350 King Ranch EX-WBCCI # 8371 AIR # 8239
There have been threads in the past with suggestions for improvements. Things like QC show up over and over. A few relatively minor things have been corrected, but basically nothing changed. I hope times are now different. The older threads show less frustration and anger than the ones in the more recent past. Apparently we are losing patience.
Here are threads from 2004 and 2007. You can judge if things really have changed.
Just a couple of observations, Mr. Wheeler. First off, a premise that starts with comparing the Airstream to a house, Lexus, carrying toolboxes and/or "accepting a few flaws as normal" strikes me as making excuses for not having a strong QC department (this was a big issue on the old Airstream web page under 'moans & groans') and not making quality the expected outcome. Whenever accepting flaws as normal is the starting point, things go down hill from there.
Secondly, it is surprising that a Lexus has better quality outcomes than the Airstream. Especially since I paid significantly more for my Airstream than the price of a Lexus...
The Lexus should be comparing itself to the Airstream... after all, the second thing I hear from folks about Airstreams is "I hear Airstreams are the Cadillac of RV's!" and Airstream has been around for quite a bit longer.
The first thing I hear, of course, is "Do they still make those things?".....
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. Bill & Kim's Marvelous Adventure "I firmly believe that tomorrow holds the possibility for new technologies, astounding discoveries and a reprieve from my obligations".
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I don't know, but my gut sense is that Mr. Wheeler and the Thor/Airstream folks really don't understand the brand, the customer base or the changing nature of building a luxury product in the digital age.
"Since we all love Airstreams, it would be nice if we could keep things mostly positive...."
Trying to "manage the customer" is futile and often counter-productive. I know the one person in marketing (or the intern) is scared to death some caffeine-loaded Airstream fan (like me) might say something offensive to Bob Wheeler. Then, of course, the very Earth would open and swallow up civilization as we know it.
The more a company tries to build a wall to protect itself or its CEO, the more it alienates its customer base. Saying things like you don't have the personnel, time or resources...? What exactly is more important than your customers? Rather than trying to control and manage and filter, why not just put Bob Wheeler in a room with a dozen folks from the Airforums and let the camera roll? I think Gene could be trusted to behave in a civil manner. Heck, I think everyone would pay their own way and the gesture of good will would create a tremendous positive response in the Airstream community. It's the 21st Century, folks... factory tours just aren't enough.
"We were a little overwhelmed by the number of responses we got, though considering the passion of the Airstream community maybe we shouldn’t have been."
I am puzzled about why? It's easy to see the traffic on this site... and I would wager Andy has provided Airstream with the data, particularly given the kerfuffle over licensing. The real question here... why isn't a brand with such a passionate customer base selling more units?
"Thirdly, the quality expectations of our customers have risen dramatically in recent years, in some cases faster than our ability to keep up. Old school Airstreamers accepted that a few flaws were normal and packed a toolbox. Today, our customers expect their unit to perform like their Lexus."
In the 50s and 60s, Airstream built travel trailers that are still on the road today. I own one. I can't say that I have same confidence in modern Airstreams. Some of the issues with modern Airstreams are systemic like the filiform corrosion. Some reflect plain old design mistakes. Others reflect compromises in the quality of materials or components. It's a simple value equation... modern Airstreams cost twice as much as comparable "boxes," but some of us have concluded they just aren't twice as good.
When a person buys a Lexus, he or she pays far more than they would for most other automobiles. They have higher expectations because they expect a luxury car to have fewer problems than say a Chevy Malibu. As it stands, Lexus owners seem pretty happy since Lexus sits atop the industry in customer satisfaction. It is my understanding (forgive me for not providing a citation) that Airstream is not the highest rated RV manufacturer with respect to customer satisfaction. I will certainly apologize if this is incorrect. Modern Airstream owners have already proven they will pay a premium for the brand, the image, the icon. They just want a product that feels "worth it."
"European trailer For the US This unit was designed to meet the (very different) code requirements of the European market, mostly for weight and weight distribution. This trailer is significantly more expensive, by length, than any equivalent model we sell domestically. As such, we don’t feel it has much of a chance here, despite its other appealing qualities."
What didn't have much of a chance here was the Basecamp. And I won't be buying stock in Thor on the idea the Scout will take the world by storm.
I'm guessing the people who know best what the customers want are... the customers. I would also guess that the folks around here knew the Basecamp was going to come and go. But the fact that folks are interested in the "Euro trailer" says something... despite what the two-person marketing department may have concluded.
This community, this throng of devoted Airstream owners is one of the best customer bases any business could hope for. And we have Airstream corporate looking at this "newfangled Internet thing" in a puzzled, sidelong fashion. This dipping-a-toe-in-water post is a nice start, but it falls well short of really leveraging the passion and commitment of this resource. For Airstream to maintain itself as a brand, it's going to have to do more than play around with concept vehicles. The company needs to go back to the beginning and rediscover what made these trailers American icons. My request for Bob Wheeler and the mysterious two-person marketing department is simple. Let the customers in.
I agree with many of the comments above. From my own experiences i would ask two things of Airstream:
1. Reevaluate the structural engineering on your frames, making improvements as necessary and provide a lifetime structural warrantee on all your trailers. OK, that is three things but they all go together. I am not a structural engineer but, from the rear end sag issues of units past to frame issues that I and others have had with newer trailers there is, at least in my mind, enough evidence to indicate that the frame is the weak point on many Airstream trailers. My own experiences can be found in the links below:
On that note I am very thankfull and compliment Airstream for repairing my frame twice, even though it was out of the two year factory warrantee. What worries me is, given my experiences so far, am I going to continue to have issues with this frame and, if so, how long is Airstream going to be willing to stand behind it. No one should have to worry about the structural integrity of a 4 year old travel trailer, certainly not one that costs as much as an Airstream does. A lifetime structual warranty would go a long way in not only instilling consumer confidence but also forcing the factory to ensure a new model has been tested and is absolutely structurally sound before releasing it to the public.
2. This goes along with the last link posted above. Please, please, send a bulletin or notice to your all of dealers and everyone who works for Airstream letting them know that Airstream travel trailers cannot handle heavy duty tow vehicles and heavy weight distributing bars. I think there are enough folks just here on the forums who have experienced issues with 22' Internationals to suggest an inherent structual weakness in this particular trailer. I am also certain however, that my towing setup at the very least contributed to the damage done to my trailer. That setup was installed by the Airstream dealer I bought the trailer from. I don't blame the dealer for installing it - it was a prudent setup per tongue weight of the trailer. I even asked the question at the factory when I brought my trailer in for its first frame repair and was reassured my setup was appropriate. Had I known two years ago that my towing setup was too harsh for the delicateness of Airstream trailers I may have avoided my troubles altogether. Better yet, had my dealer been informed of the "proper" WD setup for an Airstream being towed with a heavy duty vehicle.... As far as I can tell, Andy from Inland RV is the sole voice of reason sounding the alarm on this issue, at least as far as anyone officially connected to Airstream. What is the proper WD setup for towing a 5000# Airstream with a heavy duty truck? What about a 30' trailer? I don't know the answers, nor should I as the consumer be responsible to figure out on my own how heavy of bars I can use without breaking my trailer.
While I am disappointed with the problems I have had so far I still love my trailer and Airstreams in general. How well it fares in the years to come will determine how long those feelings last and how likely I am to purchase another Airstream or recommend Airstream to a friend. I think it is safe to say that is close to where many Airstream owners stand.
While it shouldn't exist, I personally can deal with minor QC issues like crooked caulk lines, a few loose screws (I have some of them myself), even a little construction debris here and there. Structural integrity and longevity however are an absolute that cannot be compromised for a company that claims to build the best travel trailers and charges a premium price for them. Airstreams buyers have shown they are willing to pay a premium price but only if they know they are getting a premium product in return.
Airstream has a great legacy and a strong following of loyal customers. They gained that legacy and following by a dedication to build the absolute best and by standing by their product. In my view, Airstream's success in the future depends on continuing to adhere to those same two principles.
Two big things are bothering me about our new Airstream. Corrosion and bent frames. I've the seams and rivets gooped up with Boeshield, and I'm going out to loosen the Equal-i-zer a notch. Are we good to go?
Strikes me that this thread was begun as an acknowledgement (by the President of the company that makes the product we are all here to discuss) of the work they began some months ago, and it was NOT, in my book, another place where we could post more long diatribes about how we could do it better.
If we want to continue this extraodinary conversation with the top management person at Airstream, then I firmly believe that it behooves us to stop heaping scorn on his efforts to acknowledge the difficulties, along with some of the action items he plans to take to reduce them.
Let's try to get along, let's try to keep this a non-adversarial interaction: you know that we will lose if we don't succeed in being helpful.
In his place, I would just drop the initiative and "hang up the phone" if all I got was vitriolic derision.
The time to list the problems is over. The company has identified their plans. Let's give them a chance to move on them.
__________________ ♫ The road to a friend's house is never long. (Old Danish Saying)
We love our Airstream and support the efforts to improve the product, but we need some guidance from the company on keeping our new trailers in good condition in the meantime.
Strikes me that this thread was begun as an acknowledgement (by the President of the company that makes the product we are all here to discuss) of the work they began some months ago, and it was NOT, in my book, another place where we could post more long diatribes about how we could do it better.
If we want to continue this extraodinary conversation with the top management person at Airstream, then I firmly believe that it behooves us to stop heaping scorn on his efforts to acknowledge the difficulties, along with some of the action items he plans to take to reduce them.
Let's try to get along, let's try to keep this a non-adversarial interaction: you know that we will lose if we don't succeed in being helpful.
In his place, I would just drop the initiative and "hang up the phone" if all I got was vitriolic derision.
The time to list the problems is over. The company has identified their plans. Let's give them a chance to move on them.
Wait a minute. Wasn't this one of the first lines in Bob Wheeler's response?
"Better Communication Makes Better Products.
We would really like to think of this as not just the start of a dialog, but a new era of enhanced communication that will allow us to provide better answers, products, and services, and allow you to participate in the process of making Airstream stronger, better, and more relevant. I will try to write the replies to your questions myself, as I have here, and will be as straightforward on an answer as my knowledge allows me to be."
Maybe I missed something but I never read anything in his words or in the posts before or after that this was the END of the dialog.
I agree that the goal of this interaction should be constructive and not adversarial; I think most that have posted here have tried to keep it that way. Being constructive doesn't mean not bringing up issues.
Most importantly, I don't recall reading anywhere in this thread that the deadline to bring up issues and suggestions is over. Nor do I remember reading anything about Airstream outlining a plan for correcting the issues brought up before the deadline.
Not that I expect Airstream to lay out on a forum their plan to correct all the many issues owners have. For me it is enough that they want to hear the issues... and that they hear them.
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