Hi, Thank You for responding to our Airstream concerns. Also Thank You for putting this in print for those of us who have dial-up service.
A few things on quality control, as in "QC traveler, Line Audits, End of Line Inspect and Clean, and Management Audit: I have been employed by new car dealers since 1968 [now retired] and one of my jobs was new car prep, or get ready. I had a huge check list to go by and we added any concerns that come up that weren't on the list. But I also worked with people [who should have been fired] that would pencil in the check list and do no more than Hub caps, Antenna, and License frames. These lists mean nothing if the job is not correctly done.
Corrosion issues: I would expect to hear that, "we are working on this, but at this time I have no real answer for you." This was a common answer from the automakers in which three things would happen. (1.) TSBs, we have found a fix and this is what you [the mechanic] will do to cure this concern. (2.) without any notice or announcement, newer models [sometimes years later] will no longer have this problem. (3.) absolutely nothing.
Contruction Debis: In the attached picture is a few items that I found inside of my kitchen cabinets, under my oven, and on top of my furnace. This sort of thing should never have happened and could have only been caught if employees are watched by an inspector during assembly. My selling dealer would have never found these items during their inspection. I found them when my trailer was about four years old. I'm sure who ever put or left these items inside of my trailer knew these items might never be found.
I have found items of sabotage in new cars and our factory rep. was able to trace back to who was the actual person who did this by VIN, production date, and item assembled. These employees were in trouble or fired.
Note: I don't want or expect you to do anything for me, but it might help Airstream if some of these comments and pictures are shown or posted where your employees can see what a few of their co-workers have done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream Marketing
Dear AIRForums Members,
Airstream Quality Control Process.
Several of you asked about our quality control process. I’m happy to outline it below:
QC traveler: this is a checklist that travels with each trailer and motorhome as it goes through the production process. It has a page of things for each Group Leader (production line department head) to check before the unit leaves his station. At the end of the production line, this is our record that the unit was inspected carefully in each line station.
Line Audits: these are daily inspections are performed by QC personnel in random stations to make sure certain key quality items (electrical connections, sealant application, etc..) are being performed correctly.
End-of-line inspect and clean: this is pretty much as it sounds. Every unit is inspected by QC personnel for both functional (LP, electrical, water, etc..) performance and for cosmetic flaws. Any deviations found are repaired and the unit is re-inspected.
Management Audit: this is a twice weekly inspection of a single unit by the senior management of the company. It serves to help maintain a common understanding of standards.
Those of you with a QC background may note that there is a fair amount of inspection in our process. While we do work issues back to their root cause and attempt to eliminate the problem at the source (vs. find and fix), such is the nature of an entirely hand-built product that a certain amount of inspection is unavoidable.
Corrosion
This question takes a fair amount of research; as such we will try to answer related questions in future communications.
Construction Debris
We clean the units carefully before they leave JC, but some metal shavings and sawdust inevitably work their way out onto the floor over the first several hundred miles. Much of this starts out between the inner and outer skin, and vibrations causes it to drop and shimmy out from under cabinets. When our units were mostly carpet, it simply stayed out of sight. Now we’re about 95% vinyl flooring.
Great comments - another 'thanks' for the effort...
Construction Debris...alas, an age old problem...When we ripped out all the old original carpet from our 30 year old Ambassador (built in Ohio), we found a couple dozen pop rivets and many more pop rivet 'pins'...
Can't blame today's AS builders for our 'debris', but it was still a 'sloppy' approach, IMHO - out of sight, out of mind kind of thing - or the production schedule was calling for the units to get out the door in a hurry, perhaps...in any event, a 'fixable' situation with management's commitment to training the assemblers and making them aware of the customer's views and examples in this area...Robert's picture of a piece of vent pipe 'debris' is a bit much to have a customer deal with, IMHO, and should never happen if the QC and assemblers are instructed to look at these issues from the customer's point of view!
When going through the renovation process with our AS, I am still impressed with the soundness of the basic frame and cabin structure - after thirty odd years of use, it's still a sound, tight structure...sure some of the appliances are dated, worn, and those dang tambour 'doors' are a pain - but hey, they're old, and have done their job over the years...
Looking forward to more comments from management as the time allows - BTW, love those old spec sheets and data...thanks again.
Ray in Northern Calif.
__________________ Let us not be too particular; it is better to have old secondhand Airstreams than none at all. Mark Twain, updated (org...diamonds)
AIR # 11135
1978 - 28 ft Ambassador (Blue Halo)
2001 - Ford Excursion V-10 4x4
While we appreciate the thorough nature of your quality control policies, what is in practice does not appear to be in sync. The what and where of these issues have been well-documented here, and we would hope there will be an appropriate level of attention paid by Airstream to the fact that what is expected and what is occurring are two different things.
I do appreciate the time that was spent giving the answers that were given, and to be honest, I didn't expect a whole lot, so I wasn't overly disappointed in the answers, but I found many of the answer to be non-answers. I wish I didn't but I did.
I would have liked to have heard what they are going to do about the quality outside of being challenged to build like Lexus. Yes, it's true that things happen, but if anyone has read the QC threads, you'd know first hand that a good number of issues are not simple shakedown things that happen after the units leave Jackson Center.
I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to caulk and such, but again, it does not take a rocket scientist to see a number of things that aren't right. For the most part, and this is fairly apparent, if it's out of sight, it's been considered out of mind. That kind of philosophy may have held in the old days, but these babies are now pushing 6 figures, you better not only feel challenged to build Lexus like quality, you had better do it. The fact that it was assumed Airstream owners would bring toolboxes is part of the problem because it's that mentality that has continued to live. It should be buried and fast!
Corrosion was also a thing that was sorely lacking. Airstream posted this in June, and now in September we have no further answers (or acknowledgment of the issue) and I don't think we'll get them either, but I love Gene's suggestion of extending the warranties. We'll see how that goes.
Sorry Airstream, I'd have to grade you at a C, even though I was hoping for an B this time. But it's your first try, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, so time will tell how much better things will be over time in terms of communication and how well your challenge goes to building Lexus type quality.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
I have to agree. The things that were wrong with my unit could have easly been seen by any inspector. They just weren't important enough to correct on the line. Things that may develope during delivery are one thing this is about things cut to short installed incorrectly, at odd angles, screws driven in whatever angle the operator happens to be pointing the drill etc. etc. etc. And the caulking on the roof, the way it's applied, which appears to be with some kind of a rake, does nothing but crack, attract dirt and mold. In the "eye of the beholder" ,come on. That's pretty lame. You wouldn't accept this level of work in the cheapest car manufactured today much less a Lexus so that's a meaningless comparison. I'm stil happy that there at least was a response.
A question for the Mod's.....Where are the minutes of of this "Town Meeting?"
I was a little surprised to see that when this thread was closed all the posts were deleted. They seemed to be a fairly accurate representation of our concerns for all to assess.
IMHO...Too much negative press concentrated in one place that just might impact JC's bottom line. So?
Is the Airstream trailer really a "hand built" item? I would submit that it is a
"hands' assembled" item and that some of the hands need slapping or at the very least guidance. QC is not rocket science, it's pride in what you do.
Have a production meeting, let the team read some of our QC threads. Ask them how they would feel if they were in our shoes.
Over 6000 views of this thread and only 13 people on this forum have any comment? Am I missing something? Aren't these the issues that we've been trying to get Airstream to respond to for several years? It's like voting, people complain about the issues but can't be bothered to vote. What a dissapointment.
One reason people don't vote is they feel it's hopeless, they are powerless, and those in power will never change. Of course, with consumer products they vote with their wallets, quietly and maybe with another brand, even if it's an SOB.
i think the view count carried over from the start of this topic months ago.
we all need to remember that this is a marketing survey. i'd guess AS wants to know what potential buyers are looking for. that is a very different thing than repeat buyers are looking for. the best marketing tool are former and present owners. make a product that owners will rave and praise and your sales will always grow. AS has a long way to go before saturating the market.
a chicken in every pot and TWO Airstreams in every driveway!
__________________
Ricky give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid - my unofficial '"World's Oldest Airstreamer"
January 1909 - October 2008 R.I.P.
Over 6000 views of this thread and only 13 people on this forum have any comment? Am I missing something? Aren't these the issues that we've been trying to get Airstream to respond to for several years? It's like voting, people complain about the issues but can't be bothered to vote. What a dissapointment.
My feelings exactly. If I haven't voted I keep my mouth shut.
A question for the Mod's.....Where are the minutes of of this "Town Meeting?"
I was a little surprised to see that when this thread was closed all the posts were deleted. They seemed to be a fairly accurate representation of our concerns for all to assess.
All the questions were passed onto Airstream and the thread was closed per their request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman
Over 6000 views of this thread and only 13 people on this forum have any comment? Am I missing something? Aren't these the issues that we've been trying to get Airstream to respond to for several years?
Most of the views came from when the discussion was open for new questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
i think the view count carried over from the start of this topic months ago.
Yes, you are correct.
I'd like to encourage people to try and civil and factual. If you are going to comment or ask more questions for the next round please do so in a respectful manner.
Over 6000 views of this thread and only 13 people on this forum have any comment? Am I missing something? Aren't these the issues that we've been trying to get Airstream to respond to for several years? It's like voting, people complain about the issues but can't be bothered to vote. What a dissapointment.
I don't understand. Voting in the United States is primarily done anonymously. This is a public forum and I don't see the connection between posting a response and casting a vote. I believe the the view count should be looked at as a vote. It's anonymous and it shows strong interest in this subject.
I'm probably kicking a dead or dying horse here but I don't think Bob Wheeler answered any of the questions with more than a contrived and orchestrated corporate response. Seems to me he was basically saying we were expecting a little to much from this hand made (assembled) product and those with lower expectations were more than happy. Things probably won't change much if any as far as quality of build is concerned so you're either handy as far as repairs after warranty or you pay the big bucks for someone else to fix it. As it stands now the best value is used. Airstreams new are just to expensive for what you're getting. The travel trailer industry including Airstrean seems to be turning out the level of quality that the American car companies were in the 70's. I speak for myself when I say that it wouldn't matter to me if they went out of business tomorrow. I don't plan to ever buy a new one again. Last word.
Quick Links
Hi, Thank You for responding to our Airstream concerns. Also Thank You for putting this in print for those of us who have dial-up service.
A few things on quality control, as in "QC traveler, Line Audits, End of Line Inspect and Clean, and Management Audit: I have been employed by new car dealers since 1968 [now retired] and one of my jobs was new car prep, or get ready. I had a huge check list to go by and we added any concerns that come up that weren't on the list. But I also worked with people [who should have been fired] that would pencil in the check list and do no more than Hub caps, Antenna, and License frames. These lists mean nothing if the job is not correctly done. 
Contruction Debis: In the attached picture is a few items that I found inside of my kitchen cabinets, under my oven, and on top of my furnace. This sort of thing should never have happened and could have only been caught if employees are watched by an inspector during assembly. My selling dealer would have never found these items during their inspection. I found them when my trailer was about four years old. I'm sure who ever put or left these items inside of my trailer knew these items might never be found. 
I have found items of sabotage in new cars and our factory rep. was able to trace back to who was the actual person who did this by VIN, production date, and item assembled. These employees were in trouble or fired. 
LOST IN THE SIXTIES
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