New Feature - Forums for WBCCI Units

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Exactly. The board is a small exclusive group. So whenever the board meets as a small exclusive group they are being exclusionary, excluding others. It's not a non-exclusionary meeting.

But that is already a fact, regardless of the way we communicate. here, there, or anywhere...doesn't change that at all.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Some clarifications...

1) Not all voting has to be done via face-to-face meetings. How voting is handled on issues is determined by the President -- it can be done via mailed ballot or by face-to-face meetings.

So, currently, internet voting is not even a choice? Doesn't sound like the private unit forum is such a threat then.

Originally Posted by yukionna

2) Executive BOD meetings are just that -- meetings where certain club business is discussed/voted on only by BOD. Typically, those types of meetings consist of mundance business and don't cover earth-shattering issues such as the WBCCI name change.

Sounds like the kind of stuff that members wouldn't be upset to be left out of.

Originally Posted by yukionna

In cases where it is deemed that member input is needed, then it is opened up to member input via publication thru the Quipper and mail in ballot or business meeting voting.

And it should continue to be opened up to member input via publication in the Quipper and by balloting and at meetings, so that those who don't use the internet will have a chance to contribute.

Originally Posted by yukionna

If this did happen, then the non-Internet folks would be excluded from giving their feedback before the decision was made and hence left out of the process.

Not necessarily. Just because they don't use the internet doesn't mean they don't have access (unless the board decides to keep non-board members out of the private forum). The private unit forum should be open to every member of the unit who wishes to access it. If they are not able to access the forum, then other avenues (newsletters, mail, phone, balloting) are still open to them. Decisions that require notification and an opportunity to provide input by all members should never be handled just through one medium that does not include all members. To those who cannot attend meetings, the forum will allow another avenue for open discussion of unit business.

Some see the glass half empty, some see the glass half full.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Not necessarily. Just because they don't use the internet doesn't mean they don't have access (unless the board decides to keep non-board members out of the private forum). The private unit forum should be open to every member of the unit who wishes to access it. If they are not able to access the forum, then other avenues (newsletters, mail, phone, balloting) are still open to them. Decisions that require notification and an opportunity to provide input by all members should never be handled just through one medium that does not include all members. To those who cannot attend meetings, the forum will allow another avenue for open discussion of unit business.

Some see the glass half empty, some see the glass half full.

I think we are saying the same thing. The internet forum will work as long as any discussions brought up on the forum for discussion/input for BOD decision making (on those issues the BOD chooses to make public) is also publicized thru snail mail for non-internet user discussion/input.

I don't understand what you are referencing with the "glass half empty..." quote. Please elaborate.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by yukionna

That's the way the NEU constitution and by-laws are written.

I guess the only recourse is if you don't like it then make a motion to amend the by-laws and change it.

Oh wait, I just thought of another recourse...join the BOD!

Next year, we will need two trustees and a 2nd VP. Any interest?

I'm not eligible. I'm not always available to attend the rally/meetings.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by chuck

But that is already a fact, regardless of the way we communicate. here, there, or anywhere...doesn't change that at all.

I was just pointing out that the board is exclusionary, and that if you want use the private unit forum in a non-exclusionary way, then having it open to just a small exclusive subgroup of the unit (the BOD) is not being "non-exclusionary".

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

I'm not eligible. I'm not always available to attend the rally/meetings.

Why aren't you "eligible?" Did you not renew your membership this year with the NEU? If rally/meeting attendance is why you aren't eligible, we seriously need to look at how we do things in our Unit. I know I speak for many other members of our unit, but your voice is a welcome voice of initiative and change in our organization that we would not want to lose.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

I think that is an acceptable way to participate in the discussion. I do have to ask if emails are accepted in the same manner are only letters allowed?

Jim

Letters, emails, phone calls etc. are all okay, but they're not the same thing as a forum discussion, or a face-to-face meeting discussion. I love it when I think I understand something and have my opinion straight in my mind, only to sit down with someone and talk it over, inside and out, and have my opinion completely reversed. This doesn't happen if I just right down my thoughts and mail them in.

[smily]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Too funny -- are you the guy that disappeared right in the middle of the name change fracus? I thought you had dropped your membership...

Too funny... __

Yeah thats me. I kept the membership just in case the club changed directions but it seems to be slower than even I like to admit.

No disappearing act though. I still look every day and enjoy the entertainment. There is plenty of input from you and the newbies to keep this website busier than a one armed Airstream polisher.

By the way, did you ever get out to your first local rally?
I see that you did attend international as they say, horse back.

I guess thats a good start. By the way, congrats on achieving your objective, I truly admire it. No, really I do.....

It will be great when you and the "save wally gang" focus on new objectives. you guys know how to get it done. Good Job!

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Letters, emails, phone calls etc. are all okay, but they're not the same thing as a forum discussion, or a face-to-face meeting discussion. I love it when I think I understand something and have my opinion straight in my mind, only to sit down with someone and talk it over, inside and out, and have my opinion completely reversed. This doesn't happen if I just right down my thoughts and mail them in.

I agree wholeheartedly! Now if we can only "get to that point" in our structure where communication is easy and accommodating for everyone!

The NEU is one of (if not the) oldest Unit in WBCCI. With regards to changing in an expeditious fashion, a good analogy is of IBM vs. a start up company. If a start-up company wants to initiate the same change that IBM wants to initiate, it will take IBM longer to make the change than it would the start-up company. The NEU is like IBM in that regards. I'm not saying we can't or won't change...but I am saying it takes time to change. It takes time to read/understand the by-laws. It takes time to write up the proposed amended by-laws. It takes time to discuss with members and get feedback and understanding. Once approved, it takes time to implement the change. But, most importantly, it takes people to take the initiative to take the first step in initiating the change and then following through to drive the change to completion.

Come on Jamie, you know deep down you want to be a trustee!

And, I know you have what it takes!!!!

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by smily

It will be great when you and the "save wally gang" focus on new objectives. you guys know how to get it done. Good Job!

Been to the Save Wally site lately? You'll be pleased we are ahead of you on that. You had your doubts?

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Why aren't you "eligible?" Did you not renew your membership this year with the NEU? If rally/meeting attendance is why you aren't eligible, we seriously need to look at how we do things in our Unit. I know I speak for many other members of our unit, but your voice is a welcome voice of initiative and change in our organization that we would not want to lose.

I think I heard from someone, maybe here, that officers have to commit to attending the business meetings. And I have a hard enough time just committing to mailing in my membership dues (thanks for the reminder ). But seriously, I'm not the leadership type. Blue books, Roberts rules, meeting planning, report-writing -- it all gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

But seriously, I'm not the leadership type. Blue books, Roberts rules, meeting planning, report-writing -- it all gives me the heebie-jeebies.

I was starting to think I was the only one who felt that way!

[C Johnson]

Originally Posted by 65GT

1st -- Congrats on becoming a member! I know your trailer's been screaming for it ever since you gave her a makeover (an excellent one at that!)-- glad you decided to give the WBCCI a go!!

So congrats on joining the WBCCI! We're at opposite ends, but hoping to camp with you somewhere down the road...

__

The Beverly Beach Rally is still 2 weeks away. Plenty of time to get here !

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

I was starting to think I was the only one who felt that way!

Stephanie, you and the majority of people feel the same way. I have been a member of a number of organizations and most used Roberts Rules at their formal meetings. The reason being it is a documented set of standards and provides order. Many times it was use to stop the endless back and forth that would go on with out some orderly outcome. Just as you see threads take on a life of their own so do meeting, things are said and tempers flair. Just as a moderator stepping in on a thread the rules keep the discussion civilized.

Second Reason. I am a sailor when I am on my boat I am the Captain. I am charged with the welfare of the crew and guests on the boat. I am charged with the protection of the property of others and my own. This is not unlike the owner of a Land Yacht going down the road towing a expensive piece of aluminum. What these 2 activities have in common are that meek people do not do either one. You must have self-confidence, knowledge, experience, and a sense of adventure. The listed traits are also the same traits that people who are independent and have strong opinions to share with others possess, the rules help everyone to be heard.

Stephanie sit back enjoy the adventure, others will handle the business end. One day you may even take a shot at it. If we are ever at a meeting together you can sit in the back with me.

Jim

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Been there -- done that. Even worse... I was recruited and just elected 2nd VP of the Metro Unit. I never intended to go there -- in fact I pointed them to every controversial thing I ever wrote or created (and that's a LOT of stuff) figuring they'd change their minds and RUN away. I seriously question their judgement for even wanting me --

Leo, maybe that's WHY they elected you. You are an iconoclast.

[SafeHarbor]

I think setting up closed forums inside a website that features openness in opinion and discourse limited only by standards of decency is WRONG.

I read just about everything I find on the forums about the WBCCI. I haven't decided whether I'll join or what unit I'm even interested in. Now what the WBCCI members have to say about their units and activities will no longer be available to me.

The really great part of this is that I contributed monetarily to this site because of the openness, the variety of subject matter, and the courteous discourse one generally finds here. I did not imagine that areas of the website (other than those necessary for housekeeping and maintaining order) would be cordoned off from a certain group in the near future, especially those of us who try to be helpful and exhibit correct behavior.

Furthermore, this was not even necessary. I understand that Andy hosts other units' webpages. I presume they're not here hiding somewhere under the airstreamforums.com domain name?

Well, that seems pretty natural, since unit-level websites are so specialized.

Carving out a chunk of THIS forum for so specialized a purpose does not seem to be in the best interest of this forum OR the rest of the members.

Lamar

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by SafeHarbor

I think setting up closed forums inside a website that features openness in opinion and discourse limited only by standards of decency is WRONG.

Carving out a chunk of THIS forum for so specialized a purpose does not seem to be in the best interest of this forum OR the rest of the members.

Lamar

Lamar, just a couple of thoughts here. First there isn't anything that says the WBCCI members will not post in public areas. The WBCCI area today will remain. You are making a large assumption that what is public today will be minimized. Successful units will still post items of general interest to the outside world. How else do you grow if you don't publicize yourself? In many cases items posted will probably be issues that are internal to the unit itself and would have never been posted publicly before.

Keep in mind that while Andy has been generous in providing WBCCI sites space for their web sites, that offer doesn't not include any ability to develop the forums interface on their web sites like you see here.

Also this is not carving out any of the existing forum. There will be no deletion of existing forum features. This is truly an addition to the forums and I envision that it will bring additional posts in the public areas from WBCCI members who have not frequented this site before.

[Goin camping]

Sorry folks. I've read the pro and con and I still see it as a positive. Nobodys takin food off your plate or limiting anything else on this forum. My Unit does not have a spot here so I gain nothing by this.

I always go for what helps the WBCCI. Yeah, it's got its problems but anything that old that has at its core such a cool concept ie Go out and explore and have fun while camping is worth the effort.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

This is truly an addition to the forums and I envision that it will bring additional posts in the public areas from WBCCI members who have not frequented this site before.

This is an excellent point; the additional traffic from the more senior WBCCI members may help to bring about some of the changes, which many are seeking by providing insight to what others are thinking and feeling. If the WBCCI Forums were located somewhere else they would be even more closed and out of the loop. I don’t think the WBCCI forums would intimidate anyone here and the presence of the forums would not limit the exchange of ideas and opinions. Not with in this group.

Jim

[overlander63]

I see the private forums as a potential to increase the posting in the WBCCI area of the public forum. The people that will be in the private forum will hash out what they need to, and post their final outcomes in the open forums for public discussion.
Personally, while I usually like the end result, I don't like to watch:
Puppies being born
Sausage being made
WBCCI activities being planned.