Breakers keeps tripping

[greyzeth]

My 25' Excella has an odd electrical problem.
my 20amp GFI breaker keeps tripping.
! have removed the batteries, I have unplugged the converter and flipped the switch that disconnects the DC.
I have check with a volt meter for continuity on the circuit and found no connection between POS and NEG.
I have replaced the 20amp GFI breaker.
I can't find what else may be on that circuit.
The odd thing is it may stay working for a day or so and then trip (once it tripps it will trip immediately for some time??? then out of the blue you can reset it and it will work again for a while)

Any Ideas?

[moosetags]

First off, welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

As to your problem, GFCI breakers are notorious for malfunctions and ghost trippings. I noticed that you have already tried replacing the breaker. I would try replacing the breaker again. You may have gotten a bad one new out of the box.

Brian

[Nuvite-F]

Welcome to the forums!

I'm afraid your GFI breaker tripping doesn't qualify as an "odd" problem--seems all too common in Airstreams!

The purpose of the GFI is to protect you from electric shock. Very few people get electrocuted by connecting themselves between the hot side of the line (black wire) and the neutral side (white wire). It is much more common to get shocked by touching a hot wire while simultaneously touching a grounded object--which includes the shell of your Airstream trailer.

So the way GFI breakers work is to continuously compare the current flowing in the hot wire with the current flowing in the neutral and trip out if they detect even a slight difference.

The trouble is that a slight difference in current between hot and neutral can be caused by any number of things. If a fixture--light fixture, outlet, or switch--gets a little wet on account of condensation, etc. there can be enough current leakage to trip the GFI. Insulation being worn thin--or worn through!--could do it. Worst case, capacitance between a run of hot wire and ground (like the aluminum shell) could cause enough leakage current to trip the GFI, even though the insulation is fine.

The only real solution is to find the source of the leakage. Visually look for wet fixtures, worn insulation, etc. Does the problem occur under certain conditions or when something is turned on? Could be insulation leakage in a particular device, like the 12 volt converter/charger. Old Univolts are a likely suspect.

This kind of problem can be tough to find--good luck.
.

[greyzeth]

Thanks,
I'll try replacing the GFI again.
The capacitance theory seems likely since i can reset the breaker and it may work fine for a day or so then when it trips it will continue to trip for a long time hours to days.

[Silver Goose]

Originally Posted by greyzeth

?..
I can't find what else may be on that circuit.
...

With the GFCI tripped, plug something like a lamp or fan into each outlet one at a time to determine which outlets are protected by that GFCI. Remember the outlet for the fridge and an exterior outlet if you have one. That should narrow down what is and what is not on that circuit. Was anything changed or installed before you noticed the failures?

I had some bad weatherstripping around the exterior outlet cover that sometimes allowed moisture into the outlet and caused the GFCI to trip intermittently.

[richinny]

two common places for moisture issues are the exterior outlet and the fridge outlet. the cover on the exterior outlet can hold in the moisture.

is it happening when the humidity is high?

[HowieE]

Another are to consider. Have you recently plugged in anything different to the GFI protected circuit. Many electrical items, like radios, and other electronics have capacitors across the AC line just before their internal transformer. when those items are turned on those Caps have a charging rate that draws current across the line. That will trip a GFI. While this is not a common a problem as when GFIs first came out, because manufactures have redesigned to overcome this problem I still have to ask the question.

[idroba]

The difference current from hot to neutral only needs to be .005 amps which is a very small amount. Even a wet cobweb inside an outlet can cause the issue. But the one additional thing I would check is if you have an electric element in your water heater, either original or added. If the HWH is on the GFI circuit, and the element is leaking internally, which is common, the problem might be there. Unplug the electric system for the HWH to find out.

[Inland RV Center, In]

A loose ground wire, often causes the issue your experiencing.

Andy

[greyzeth]

89 Excella 25’
My 20amp GFI circuit breaker keeps tipping. (this is intermittent, it may trip immediately or it may take a few hours)
Here is what I have done to troubleshoot this:
1. Check changes or additions I have made recently. Breaker keeps tipping
2. I disconnected the DC circuitry and removed my batteries. Breaker keeps tipping
3. unplugged the converter. Breaker keeps tipping. Breaker keeps tipping
4. verify nothing is plugged into the circuit. Breaker keeps tipping
5. replace the 20amp GFI circuit breaker. Breaker keeps tipping
6. talk to anybody that may be of help incl. Airforums. Breaker keeps tipping
7. Plug my shore power into a different circuit at home. Works great.
8. I Have a dedicated 30amp shore power connection at home, checked all connections pos, neg, and neutral. Breaker keeps tipping
9. verified that ground and neutral have .3 ohms. Breaker keeps tipping
10. At my home breaker box I moved my 30amp positive to a different breaker (had a 20 amp not being used) Works great.
11. 30 amp shore power breaker will be replaced.
I want to thank all of you for your help. This has been a challenge figuring this one out

[HowieE]

Determine which receptacles are on the GFI. Now one by one remove each receptacle starting with the one furthest from the panel. I say this because the receptacles will be wired in parallel as the wiring goes out from the panel. If none of the receptacles stop the breaker from tripping you problem is in the wiring itself from the panel to the first receptacle.

If the tripping stops when you have removed an individual receptacle replace that receptacle using only the feed wires to it. If the problem returns the problem is in that receptacle. If it does not return it is in the secondary wiring that feed beyond that receptacle.

If you locate a wire that is causing the problem it is most likely nicked within the framing of the trailer. A real hard problem to fix.

[greyzeth]

I verified that ground and neutral have .3 ohms. Breaker keeps tipping
At my home breaker box I moved my 30amp positive to a different breaker (had a 20 amp not being used) Breaker keeps tipping.
Replaced 30 amp receptacle. Breaker keeps tipping
issues must be in the dedicated 30 amp line
OK I am confused when I connect my shore power to a 20amp non-dedicated circuit in my house I have no problem.
When I connect my shore power to my dedicated 30amp in my house the 20amp EFI trips

[HowieE]

Now you have me confused.

The breaker that is tripping. Is it in the house or in the trailer? The assumption I was going on was that it was in the trailer.

[greyzeth]

Yes it is the 20amp GFI breaker in the trailer that keeps triping.
I supply the Service to the Airstream from my home: it is a dedicated 30 amp breaker, line, and receptical (shore power)

[NevadaGeo]

Hmm, does the weather ever get damp or wet where you live? Dampness can get into a conduit and not come out unless you take it up to the dry desert. I bet if you surveyed folks, us desert rats have less problem with GFCI's than swamp dwellers.

[greyzeth]

This swamp dweller (yes, Portland OR is swamp land) checked all that.
This still won't explain why my A/S 20amp GFI would tripp when I'm plugged into the dedicated 30amp shore power and not the 20 amp non-dedicated shore power. both are in a dry garage.

[Rebee]

Try using a circuit tester in all outlets, If that proves fruitless look at A/C wiring. May need to check wiring to look for cracked or chaffed insulation.

Circuit Tester at Lowes: http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

[HowieE]

There is little or no chance that anything on the shore power side will have any effect on the GFI in the trailer. If you want to test this just remove the wire from the GFI in the trailer panel and then set the GFI. My guess is it will not trip.

I would again suggest you go back to my above suggestion and try to isolate the problem within the trailer. Airstream, like almost all electricians will run a wire out from a panel and connect that wire to receptacles in a chain going away from the panel. Go to the receptacle farthest from the panel and begin removing thing at that point till you have a condition where by the GFI holds. That will define the point of the problem.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by greyzeth

This swamp dweller (yes, Portland OR is swamp land) checked all that.
This still won't explain why my A/S 20amp GFI would tripp when I'm plugged into the dedicated 30amp shore power and not the 20 amp non-dedicated shore power. both are in a dry garage.

Probably because the 20 amp outlet isn't grounded the right way or the 30-to-20 amp adapter isn't grounded. Often that will mask the problem.

As Howie says, if you can't find the problem by inspection, you have to isolate it by disconnecting outlets from the string until you find the one that's causing the problem. If the problem is not due to moisture alone then it is probably because of a short between neutral (white) and ground somewhere.

[HowieE]

A GFI will only trip when there is an imbalance of current between the hot and neutral legs. It is designed to trip when some of the current is going through your body or any other path to ground. Now that said Jammer brings up a good point. If the 20 amp receptacle in your garage is not grounded, an open ground or a 2 prong adapter is being used to bypass the ground. Get a 3 prong tester and make sure the 20 amp receptacle is grounded. If it is then we are really at a loss.