Tow Rig

[Air Apparent]

We had a popup that needed to have some work done and our tow vehicle also needed to be replaced at the time. We decided to sell the popup and buy an Airstream. We were not sure which model we were going to buy. I set up an Excel worksheet listing the GVWR for the Airstream, the GVWR for the tow vehicle, and the Combined GVWR. I did this because I never wanted to have a tow vehicle that was under capacity. It gave me different answers for a 22 vs a 25 vs a 30. We selected our trailer first which was an Airstream 30 and then purchased a 3/4 ton diesel. I am very happy with the decision and I didn't need to change tow vehicles when I moved up to the 34.

Good luck in your analysis and decision.

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Tarheel-2

Assuming that we find the 28-31 ft AS we like -- what do you consider as a great (as opposed to it works, but ) tow rig? From my reading so far it looks like gvwr's top out around 8500 lbs for this length trailer. That knocks my 1500 suburban out of consideration. We travel widely and want to be able to tackle the Rockies and secondary road 12% grades with confidence.

You have had much good advise in here, but here are a few that was not mentioned or I missed it. Here is my advise from experience.
You really need to find out what size of trailer you are getting first because that will dictate the tow vehicle.
22-27 foot- most of the 1/2 ton trucks can handle in most situations especially if you look into new ones as they are more set now for towing these size trailers, especially the F150 Eco-boost which has a tow capacity of 11,000 lbs and all I would add is the ride rites to help with level and handling.
27-34 foot- 3/4 to 1 ton truck definately and if you are going to have a truck/trailer combo that heavy you will definately want the diesel for the added torque and you wont wear out the engine like on a gas. Difference between a 3/4 & 1 ton is the springs only, body, frame, engine, trans, steering, all the same between the two. Of coarse most 1 tons have dual wheels and therefore an added cost of tires that you most likely won't need. Again you add the ride rites and the 3/4 is identicle to the 1 ton as far as load capacity.
Engines gas vs diesel- Gas may be cheaper, oil change is a little cheaper, but the gas engine has reached it lifes end around 125,000 miles, not saying they dont last longer but that is rule of thumb based on wear and tear and towing that kind of load up hills over 4.5% grade repeatedly does shorten the life of a gas engine. Diesel on the other hand generally have a 450000+ life expectancy and is designed for wear and tear that occurs from towing in all types of conditions, including hills.

I have been camping since I was 10, driving since I was 13 including with our camper, 25 years driving trucks everything from hotshots (pickups w/trailer) to triple axle semis for over size loads. So I do have a little experience.

Sarge

[Gene]

I'm going to disagree with Sarge a bit. The newer 27' and 28' aren't that different in terms of weight. I think gas engines last longer than 125,000 miles as they have improved greatly over the years. And while diesels have a very long life, would you keep it for 450,000 miles? Diesels cost a lot more and maintenance is more than gas engines.

You have to decide how long you will keep the tow vehicle and that will help you decide whether a diesel makes economic sense. So far as horsepower and torque, modern gas engines will have no problem with most Airstreams.

But first, choose the trailer. You are much more likely to keep the trailer longer than the truck, so get that right the first time.

Gene

[27fb2freedom]

I dont know about the chryslers but i am on road alot and asked around the fleet drivers (comcast, verizon, etc) their vans with ford 5.4 and chevy v8 go 200+ easy

Heck the gm 6.0 is in some some of the newer ups trucks and have 100-150k already with 100-200 start/stop cycles per day driven very hard. No motor problems there either

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Right now it looks like you've got a horse but no cart.

IMHO....I would get the cart and then decide how much if any you need to up-grade. What TV really depends on what your towing.

Good luck in your search...

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I'm going to disagree with Sarge a bit. The newer 27' and 28' aren't that different in terms of weight. I think gas engines last longer than 125,000 miles as they have improved greatly over the years. And while diesels have a very long life, would you keep it for 450,000 miles? Diesels cost a lot more and maintenance is more than gas engines.

You have to decide how long you will keep the tow vehicle and that will help you decide whether a diesel makes economic sense. So far as horsepower and torque, modern gas engines will have no problem with most Airstreams.

But first, choose the trailer. You are much more likely to keep the trailer longer than the truck, so get that right the first time.

Gene

What Gene and Bob said.....

[Gene]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

What Gene and Bob said.....

And, just to square the circle, what Bob said. But, maybe we should round the square?

Gene

[dznf0g]

Tarheel, 3/4 ton for sure, especially if you going to crowd the 30' range. But, unless you are going to spend A LOT of time in the rockies, skip the diesel thing. It doesn't pencil financially, and is completely unnecessary east of the rockies and gas is fine for any occasional trip west to the big hills. If you plan to move to Colorado....get a diesel. Just my professionally based opinion. I'm sure I'll hear about this comment, but I always tell the truth as I know it to be.

[Gene]

But before you get to 30', I think the 27' and 28' can be handled in the Rockies with a gas engine. Our 1/2 ton has no problem with a 25' Safari and the 27' and 28' don't weigh that much more.

Gene

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by JBinKC

You'll wish you had a diesel truck if you plan to tow your Airstream up to Mesa Verde National Park.

OK, I pulled that many years ago with a 4.3L Astro van with a 5500# SOB. Slow, true, but I wanted to see the scenery anyway. C'mon, it's achievable W/O a big truck.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Tarheel-2

Assuming that we find the 28-31 ft AS we like -- what do you consider as a great (as opposed to it works, but ) tow rig? From my reading so far it looks like gvwr's top out around 8500 lbs for this length trailer. That knocks my 1500 suburban out of consideration. We travel widely and want to be able to tackle the Rockies and secondary road 12% grades with confidence.

I think we might have skeered him away, hope he's still looking.

Bob

[slowmover]

I think what Sarge is referring to as a 125k life is the point at which wear begins to accelerate in a gasser motor that is having to work hard for a living. Yes, it can still work. But not as well as before. The stresses on other components begins a cascade effect as the motor wears down: cooling system, transmission, etc.

High compression conquers hills. American cars haven't had big-engined high-compression motors since 1969. While todays gasser vehicles are better in all ways, still, 8.5 or 9.0 to 1 CR isn't much cylinder pressure. Maybe 140-lbs over time. Contrasted to a diesel at 360-lbs.

The key is to find the motor where brand-new compression readings are present for the longest period of time in an otherwise suitable vehicle (past design flaws).

.

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I think what Sarge is referring to as a 125k life is the point at which wear begins to accelerate in a gasser motor that is having to work hard for a living. Yes, it can still work. But not as well as before. The stresses on other components begins a cascade effect as the motor wears down: cooling system, transmission, etc.

High compression conquers hills. American cars haven't had big-engined high-compression motors since 1969. While todays gasser vehicles are better in all ways, still, 8.5 or 9.0 to 1 CR isn't much cylinder pressure. Maybe 140-lbs over time. Contrasted to a diesel at 360-lbs.

The key is to find the motor where brand-new compression readings are present for the longest period of time in an otherwise suitable vehicle (past design flaws).

.

Red; You are exactly correct on what I was trying to say. You just said it better than I did.

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Based on these requirements; diesel, 3/4 ton minimum, which in the US currently means a pick-up truck. (Too bad the 3/4 ton Burb doesn't come in deezul flavor!)

I would go 1 ton and pass right by the 3/4 ton market...nothing to be gained by going 3/4 vs 1 ton...

Good luck...this post will get WAY off topic soon!

Bill

But it does!! it is called the Ford Excursion produced from 2000 to 2005 and came with the gas hog V10, diesel 7.3 & 6.0. And believe me for a burb there is nothing out there that beats the Excursion, I know I have had one for the last 2 years and just traded it for a 2011 F250 with the 6.7 diesel engine, and if Ford still produced the Excursion I would have bought another one. If anyone is wanting an Excursion it is at the ford dealer in Greeneville TN for a resonable price.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

This is good to read. I've been wondering the same thing. I'm thinking that, for the two of us, a standard cab 1-ton pickup with a diesel in it would be great.

Those of you who are actually towing with diesels, what fuel consumption rates are you seeing, both with and without the trailer?

On my excursion 6.0 18-19.5 mpg @ 65mph, towing 34 AS WB 12-13.5 mpg. On my 2011 F250 6.7 19-21.5 Mpg @ 65 mph, Towing 11-14.9 mpg @ 60 mph- but the truck is still new and only had less than 100 miles on it when I bought it 3 weeks ago and is steadly improving as I put more miles on it.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

That's why Ford offers the GVWR 10,000 lbs option (zero cost of course) on their F-350's...

You might want to look at the Ford website, Ford offers that + now on thier F150's which with the eco-boost engine/6.0 engine at 11,000 lbs. F250's in mid 20's now, F350's almost 30,000

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Tarheel, 3/4 ton for sure, especially if you going to crowd the 30' range. But, unless you are going to spend A LOT of time in the rockies, skip the diesel thing. It doesn't pencil financially, and is completely unnecessary east of the rockies and gas is fine for any occasional trip west to the big hills. If you plan to move to Colorado....get a diesel. Just my professionally based opinion. I'm sure I'll hear about this comment, but I always tell the truth as I know it to be.

You dont have to be in the rockies to find hills/moutains,,, if you travel in the south you are going to run across many grades between 4 & 7%, if you travel in PA, Upstate NY, you are also going to find grades 4-7%. And I could set here and name most of them off. Infact Cincinatti actually has a mountain grade of 5.8%.
So when you say that you wont need a diesel unless you go out west is not accurate, if you are going to travel outside Mich, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, you are going to run into some pretty serious grades and will want that diesel.

Sarge

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

You dont have to be in the rockies to find hills/moutains,,, if you travel in the south you are going to run across many grades between 4 & 7%, if you travel in PA, Upstate NY, you are also going to find grades 4-7%. And I could set here and name most of them off. Infact Cincinatti actually has a mountain grade of 5.8%.
So when you say that you wont need a diesel unless you go out west is not accurate, if you are going to travel outside Mich, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, you are going to run into some pretty serious grades and will want that diesel.

Sarge

7% and even steeper grades are no problem for a gas engine truck, assuming it has a large enough engine and a suitable rearend gear ratio for the job. Just gear down and let it eat...that's what it's designed to do.

The real problem comes with steep grades AND high altitude (8,000ft and above), which simply does not occur in the East.

When we are towing, I just LOVE my Diesel truck. However, I don't love it when I'm buying fuel for it, paying for an oil change for it, or buying and changing the fuel filter in it. All things that are considerably more costly than with a gas truck.

[slowmover]

When we are towing, I just LOVE my Diesel truck. However, I don't love it when I'm buying fuel for it, paying for an oil change for it, or buying and changing the fuel filter in it. All things that are considerably more costly than with a gas truck.

Mine has been considerably cheaper than the half-ton gasser it replaced. In all respects, but most especially fuel. When something does wear out it will be more expensive. But at 8-yrs and 180k-miles the cost has been under $400 total for unscheduled repairs. And with brakes/tires/shocks lasting in excess of 120k-miles, the "higher cost" is offset by double or triple the lifespan making the per mile cost much lower. As with 15k-mile factory oil changes. Etc.

This experience with the Dodge CTD is not uncommon by any means.

I think you bought the wrong spec, brand and year of diesel truck.

.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I think you bought the wrong spec, brand and year of diesel truck.

.

Gasoline = $3.47 per gallon
Diesel fuel= $3.69 per gallon
Diesel fuel addative need to lubricate the injector pump since the EPA mandated ultra low sulphur Diesel= $13.00 per gallon....not required with a gas truck
Diesel oil change=$56 if I do it myself
Gas oil change= $26 if I do it myself, and the miles between change is the same as I use sythetic in both.
Diesel fuel filter= $40...not required with a gas truck.
Diesel truck fuel mileage= 12 towing, 21 empty
Gas truck fuel mileage= 11 towing, 19 empty

Rednax, I sure wish you would tell us where you bought that Diesel calculator...I need one to make my Diesel less expensive.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I think you bought the wrong spec, brand and year of diesel truck.

.

Originally Posted by SteveH

Rednax, I sure wish you would tell us where you bought that Diesel calculator...I need one to make my Diesel less expensive.

Red just happens to have one of the best years (04) for the Dodge/Cummins combination with the other year being 03. These two years had a particular camshaft that was known to give great power and be very efficient. In 2005 the camshaft changed for emissions reasons and so went the efficiency. I know of another person with the same era truck as Rednax and he can make similar claims on mileage. He has 2003 2wd truck and 25+ mpg on the highway is a common occurance running solo. The truck is in stock form.