Summary Of Full-Timing Considerations

[Getaways]

Bill,

Several KOA campgrounds have Airstreams you can rent as an overnight cabin (can't tow them away). You might look into going to one of them and testing out if you like AS or not.

[Splitrock]

Here we have three experienced and prominent groups who roam the country in travel trailers . . . combine crews, carnival workers, and gypsies. We used to have circuses here but they got a big rip in their tent and quit coming.

[dhackney]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

We need to get it as close to right the first time as we can.

I highly recommend renting an example of each platform you are considering and using it for at least a couple of weeks.

Keep a notebook handy and log all the upsides and downsides of each experience.

This will give you real-world experience and will reveal factors that are impossible to learn until you are out there, hands-on, living the ground-truth of each of the various experiences.

The rentals will not be cheap, especially the DPs.

You may have to search a while for a TT / 5er rental or settle for the option of renting a stationary unit. You may need to settle for a ride-along or a brief test drive of the towing experience of someone else's vehicles.

But even with the costs and the compromises, in our experience, it will be money very wisely spent and could save you much grief and buyer's remorse later.

Also, aside from the functional and financial aspects of each platform, there are also social and cultural aspects of which tribe you become a member of by your platform selection. That tribal / cultural aspect can shape your ongoing experience a lot more than tech factors or even total cost of ownership.

The forums are invaluable for learning of others experiences, but until you live your own experiences, you cannot know what you will value the most and what will be the most enjoyable and fulfilling experience for you.

Best wishes in your research, testing and travels.

Doug

[kb0zke]

I've heard about those KOA's that have Airstreams for rent, but have never run across one. I just looked at their website, and it looks like the closest one is in Texas, so we probably aren't going to go there just to sleep in an Airstream.

I have been talking to lots of people about the various questions we have, and we try to look at as many rigs as possible. There are only two RV shows around here, and we go to both each year. We also visit the various dealers on a regular basis.

So far we have not found anyone who has not been extremely helpful and friendly. The advice we've gotten from the various forums has really been helpful.

If something would happen that would force us to go FT right now I'm confident that we could find a decent rig. It may not be the perfect one, but it would be pretty close. Since we'll be buying everything used, obviously we'll have to keep looking until what we want comes up for sale.

Yes, I have visited the Airstream factory, as well as two other factories, and we'll try to visit more as we travel to various parts of the country over the next couple of years.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

?.. Our plan is to travel for about a half a day or so, park there for a few days to a couple of weeks to see and do what there is to see and do, and then move on down the road. From what most have told us, we're kind of on the line between a MH ... That might be interesting.

MH's seem to be logical for the folks who wanna move a bunch...I think the opposite may be true....$/mile is pretty high for one of them...

We hitch-and-haul every few days when traveling and benefit from Airstreams tow ability. $/mile are pretty low...

[timmaah]

We bought a 25 footer and will try full-timing in that. Taking a big leap, but hey why not? Our conclusion based on no experience is that the 25' Airstream had enough storage for us, allows for fairly separate living/bedroom spaces, and a tow vehicle is only one engine we have to worry about.

Here are some pics:
82Smugglers - Airstream

Last weekend I gently dismantled most of the interior in preparation for a new floor, new back splash, counter tops and bed platform. I will start my own thread on it shortly.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

I've heard about those KOA's that have Airstreams for rent, but have never run across one. I just looked at their website, and it looks like the closest one is in Texas, so we probably aren't going to go there just to sleep in an Airstream.

~~~

Ah, the KOA Airstreams in Texas are new, they weren't listed a year or so ago when I was first admitting to my partner that I was serious about this crazy idea. I didn't look again before I stumbled upon our Argosy, so I didn't realize they'd added those. Luckily it worked out in the end, he likes traveling with the Argosy.

[LawChick]

I don't know anything about living or camping in a MH, but I always feel kind of sorry for people in the big ones when they pull in next to our Airstream. For one thing, they cost too much, for another, they use too much fuel, and for yet another, I would hate to drive one of those big things. I would hate to pull a stinkin' car, another motor and trans to maintain, so I could go somewhere once I get somewhere.

At this year's Alumapalooza, we learned that a 34' Airstream can be pulled with a Ford Edge or a minivan, if one has modifications done. I'm sure someone knows, but I forgot the name of company/person who makes these modifications. The information presented about it was amazing. There are a couple of people here on the forums who are pulling 'streams quite successfully with smaller gas efficient tow vehicles. I wouldn't believe it myself except I saw it. And these people have been everywhere! No short distance campers.

We pull our 29 ft. Excella with a Dodge 2500 Cummins diesel, and get 14-17 mpg while we are doing it, so that's ok with us. $100 at the fuel station is bad, but do-able. $300 - $400 a shot would mean we'd be eating beans and taters most nights!

When we come home from a trip, I always feel overwhelmed and slightly uncomfortable with all the "stuff" that goes along with having a house. The AS feels efficient, comfortable, cocoonish, and if, like us, your indoor recreation is mostly reading, writing, watching TV, surfing the internet, you can have everything you need in the trailer. However, we don't spend half as much time inside when we are living in the trailer. Our lifestyle in our Airstream is more active and healthier than our lifestyle at home.

We are consideraing a compromise between having a house or just having a trailer and full-timing. We may sell our home within the next year or so and purchase a piece of land with water, electricity and maybe a septic tank. We are interested in rural land which may have an old homesite or an old fixer-upper small house on it so all the utilities would be there. Then we'll park the AS when we're "home" and have an outbuilding, or fix up the house enough to store whatever we aren't dragging around with us.
Then we will proceed to continue to run the roads in our Airstream....unless we are at the "base" for a bit for doctor's appointments, family matters, etc. But it won't be much different than setting up at a campground, except we'll have no CG fees! Utilities should be minimum.

We've been in our Airstream when a tornado came very close to where we were camped this summer. It did major damage less than a mile from us - and it was scary, but she rocked very little and still felt like a safe haven. We've been through some big hail, and all that happened was hellacious noise and a few new dents (another reason I'm glad she isn't new). We camped two weeks ago in weather over 100 degrees and stayed comfortable either in the AS (parked in the shade, awnings out) or in the cold Ozark river which was out the door and down the hill. We have been in our AS when it was about 30 degrees, cold, snowing and windy - and the heat, along with warm clothing and a big comforter on the bed, worked fine. It was January and snowing when we bought it, and we were in it a lot with only an electric heater. It was chilly, but we were working and not freezing by any means. Our trailer is 20 years old, and aside from closing the blinds and curtains, we didn't do anything special to deal with the hot/cold. Of course, we aren't intentionally going anywhere that gets under 25-30 degrees. That's the idea of being able to travel around - following good weather.

The only place we really got uncomfortable was in Ohio at Alumapalooza, and who would have thought Ohio would get that hot in early June? There was not enough electricity for AC. Next time we'll know to camp down the road where they have electricity, and attend the mother-of-all Airstream rallies as day visitors.

Since we got our AS we've been made aware of how much of our "stuff" really is just stuff and not necessary to our life. In fact, it complicates and restricts it. A daughter and her two children are living with us now, but when they once again leave this nest, we don't need it.

I went into the Airstream the other day to get some things we needed here, and as soon as I went in the door I knew I was ready to get in it and leave again. Life is so much more fun and has so much less hassle lived in the AS. Sometimes we stay out in the AS for a month or more at a time, and I'm never particularly thrilled to get home. The AS, to me, is the more comfortable home - I'm more myself there.

Just my two-cents worth. You'll find what's right for you. Everyone is different and even after hearing and considering many opinions, you'll eventually do what feels right to you. The way I look at it, if we make a mistake, we'll just alter our course. Luckily, as long as we're breathing, we have options, and can even change our minds. Life is just an extended (hopefully) adventure anyway.

Happy trails.

[Leprechauna]

We are seriously planning our AS purchase now, and appreciate this thread immensely!

Lawchicks post regarding her feelings of freedom from clutter & "stuff" is how I've been feeling for quite some time. We rent our place in Southern Cal, and the cost is ridiculous. Job opportunity make up for this somewhat.

Our plan now (open to change):

1) Research research research possibility of a used 23-25 ft

2) Hope there is a powerful enough hybrid vehicle to tow it by the time we are ready to buy. Then travel locally, day camp at Bolsa Chica in summer, short trips to see family in Nevada & AZ.

3) Go FT the last few years of employment, at a park close to both jobs, while we save rent money for land in low tax state

4) Plop the trailer on the land while building very small eco friendly factory manufactured home. Use the trailer as guest house in summer, and take it on the road to see family in winter.

The thought is, if we are frugal, we can have a small retirement pad , but enjoy the trailer earlier than later. I'm an oncology, nurse.....not secure in counting on living long enough to wait until retirement for funzies!

Please throw ideas this way? Open to being told that I'm wacko

[xrvr]

Dreams---without them we are nothing! jim

[exthemius]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

My truck averages over 20-mpg for all miles the past 30k. 13-16 pulling a 34'. 24-27 highway solo. I'm hardly restrained from going where I want. The cost of fuel is relevant, but other costs can be more important (pay cash for used TT/TV for starters) to keep fixed expenses low.

I can second this as well -- depending on what the terrain is like, we're getting 12 in the mountains towing and 17-19 on the the freeways where it's flat (we're in an F150, however, so no diesel for us). We are also "full timing" for a grace period right now in an Airstream and find it adequate for us, but we're also of the mindset that we shouldn't be where the heater or A/C doesn't work -- as the old RV saying goes "How do you keep your trailer from freezing up in the winter? YOU MOVE IT! "

[kb0zke]

As we study and calculate, the cost of fuel for a MH put us off of them at first. Five mpg at $5.00/gallon sounded like a good way to run out of money quickly! Then we started playing with the numbers. If we drove the MH (pulling a fuel-efficient car) 5000 miles per year, we would burn $5000 worth of diesel. The small car would do most of the running around, so we figured 25 mpg for 10,000 miles at $4.50 per gallon. That's another $1800 per year. Total then is $6800 for fuel for a year.

Using the numbers in the previous post for fuel economy, and using the same figures I used in the previous paragraph, nets these numbers: 15 mpg @ $4.50/gal for 5000 miles is $1500, and the same 25 mpg for 10,000 miles @ $4.50 is still $1800, for a total of $3300 for fuel per year.

If the MH got 9 mpg, as many of the newer ones do, then that cost would drop to about $2800, and if we went with an even smaller toad, getting 30 mpg, that cost would drop to $1500, for a total of $4300/year for fuel.

All in all, if cost is of fuel is the major concern, an Airstream seems to be the best way to go. For most people, though, fuel costs are only one part of the overall equation.

[slowmover]

More thinking needs to be done; more homework, above, if long and short term costs are going to be realistic:

The highest mpg/lowest cost/longest life RV will be a used turbodiesel TV and a used aero aluminum TT (probably not an A/S). Due to tightening emissions standards, the TV would likely have to 2006 or earlier (subject to brand/model & origin); the TT would be 1990 or earlier.

To bring it to date as a more contemporary pair -- with an A/S -- make that maybe five years or a bit older on each. Depreciation is nil, op expenses are low, and a long life can be assumed.

Fuel cost is irrelevant compared to depreciation/finance/insurance cost. Today. On a moho AND a car it is foolishness thinking there is some form of economy even with rising fuel costs. A motorhome is the original money pit. Even if someone gave me a motorhome and a towed -- brand-new -- the cost of ownership & operation exceeds that of a TT/TV combination of nearly any aluminum TT brand or configuration of any age/miles for any proposed use (short of having a contractor move the trailer from one location to another: expect $1.50/mile or higher).

Same for hybrid vehicles as TV's, today. The costs are simply offset to the future, and savings never realized. They're a wash at best. The long-term outlay is never offset by fuel cost reduction due to higher vehicle price and eventual battery replacement (were there an adequate TV of such configuration, as noted above).

If someone can show at what fuel price the above combinations (moho + towed; and hybrid TV + TT) make economic sense, today, I'm all ears. Bring on the spreadsheet. (Same for truck-lets or SUV's of the near-future; speculate and show us).

All monetary/financial transactions have a fossil fuel penalty attached. No exceptions.

As the price of fuel rises, so will every other cost, tomorrow. This should be recognized as a given, a basic assumption.

Shuffling around the day of reckoning is not economical for individuals (only for politically-connected entities). Especially if the price of fuel rises high enough there will be no particular recreational market any longer existing for RVs', only a market for those having chosen a life on the road with few or many annual stops needing economy in all it's forms: possible higher initial cost, but nicely offset by long-lived, reliable vehicles with low energy inputs needed for living/working/commuting. Or re-creating.

What's most attractive about an aero aluminum trailer is that size & weight do not extract the penalties associated with square white box TT's and badly-matched gasser TV's. Given the appropriate TV one has a range of choices in TT size. If both are economical to own/operate -- singly and in combination -- then both have a higher re-sale value offsetting all other costs.

Low fuel cost: liquid, gaseous or electron is just icing on the cake.

How far? (distance), or how long? (time), are the better questions when expressed against a calendar showing both years and miles proposed for the purchase and operation of an RV (in any of it's manifestations) if energy inputs are to be considered. The rising cost of money (inflation or finance charges or devaluation) is not different in any reasonable respect from that of the necessary fuel. They are locked together.

Be a little more serious: plan for the worst, hope for the best.

.

[Mr.Bill]

Over the last 3 years my company Chevrolet Equinox has averaged 18 MPG, and that's without towing anything (of course, because of my job the car spends about 1 - 2 hours a day parked and idling, to run the A/C so I can work inside it without getting heat stroke). Seriously, how do you drive in order to get such great mileage?

[slowmover]

Seriously, how do you drive in order to get such great mileage?

If you are asking me, then it was some years of homework to choose a vehicle that could do a great deal of work per gallon. And a trailer that matched the goal of long-life & lowest overall cost.

My numbers for a 15k combination -- 13/15 hwy -- are the same as at least one-half dozen others on this forum (and more elsewhere) with the same specification truck & trailer (28-34') in the South Central US (comparison also based on solo mileage; some of these were commercial operators). Truck does 18-20 in town, and 24-27 highway. I'd have broken 16-mpg towing on the flats if I'd slowed to my present hwy speed of 58-mph. This was a requirement.

A little number crunching on time versus distance makes clear the long term savings (drivetrain, tires, etc) that higher mpg brings to any trip plan made.

Fuel price is not what will keep me from travel . . . but I sure don't make short unnecessary single trips that could have been combined.

I have an interest in highest mpg -- best FE -- for the family vehicles. Pursuit of such tends to keep them in tip-top shape, the driver alert, and the vehicle operated in the safest manner. An all-around win for being willing to change habits (mind & body).

because of my job the car spends about 1 - 2 hours a day parked and idling

Idling is murderous. Luckily, my use is personal at present. I idle the truck for A/C use this time of year, but not otherwise. Otherwise, the rule for driving is: Never idle, and never stop.

If I maintain at least a 27-mph average speed, then my overall economy is good. I'm presently above 4,500-hrs/177,000-miles at 39-mph. 22.48 mpg average the past 27k miles.

Mine looks good, but I'm a piker compared to a Ph.D. engineer in the Midwest who's lately averaging just above 30-mpg in his stock 2006 Dodge diesel.

The point with the numbers is that plenty of others are doing it. There's no A/S ever built that needs more than the 305HP/555TQ of my year/spec Dodge. And if one does not want a truck for full-timing, there are other TV's capable of the same or better.

.

[urnmor]

Nike had a slogan of "Just do it". "Seems to me that there is a lot of over analyzing going on with regards to full timing, selling the house keeping the house buying an AS etc.

I wonder if we always did this much analysis would we ever have gotten married, had children, bought our first home or even get out of bed in the morning. Don't get me wrong some analysis is good but to much may mean you miss out in a lot great things. Having a motorhome, travel trailer or even a tent is about adventure and for staying young.

There is an old saying "You can have anything in life you want but you can't have everything." If it is a TT you want get one, If it is full timing do it. If need be make adjustments and if the adjustments don't work make some more but don't procrastinate or else you could wake up saying I wish I coulda shoulda.

[kb0zke]

Urnmor, I think you have it nailed! Yes, we need to do our "due diligence" whenever we are making a major change, but eventually all of the analysis needs to be put to use. Now, if the analysis says that you can't afford to do what you want, then you need to either refine (downward) what you want or refine (upward) the money available. Sometimes, you need to do both.

I'd like to be able to ignore fuel costs as we consider an RV for full-time use, but that's not realistic. Fuel costs aren't the only costs to consider, though. Insurance and upkeep are right up there, too. For approximately the same money, I can buy a used Airstream and pickup OR a used DP and toad. Depending on exactly what I get and what fuel prices are, one combination will cost less than the other if fuel costs are the only consideration. When I add in insurance and maintenance, though, things may change.

Even then, that isn't all that needs to be considered. A 38' DP will have more room than a 34' Airstream. It will also be 10-15 years older. Fortunately for us, we have a couple of years yet, and there are still many questions to be answered. We may not get the perfect RV for us the first time, but I'm firmly convinced that, when the time comes to actually get the checkbook out, we'll have a very good idea of what will suit both our lifestyle and our checkbook.

[urnmor]

David

My wife and I just bought our first TT. After about a month of research we bought the 25' Flying Cloud and yes there were many compromises before we reached our decision. I would have been happy with a bambi( I tent a lot with my sons; however to have my come with me I needed a condo on wheels, the 25 came closes as it easy to trailer, does not exceed what most federal and state parks will allow and is livable for weeks at a time with most of the conveniences of home.

We looked at use but bought new. Why? Partly because of our age and I did not want to hazel with repairs etc although new does not guarantee that.

[kb0zke]

Congratulations! I wonder if we saw your new home when we visited the factory this summer.

As I said, we've still got a couple of years yet before we get serious about a purchase, and we still have a LOT to learn! I'd love to be able to order a new 30' Classic, then go up to Jackson Center to watch it being built, but I suspect that we won't get that pleasure, since our dealer says that such a trailer by itself would cost nearly twice what we expect to spend for the trailer and truck or DP and toad.

Actually, our dealer has told me that the only Airstream we should consider is a 34' Classic, and he has also strongly suggested that we not drop the idea of a DP. I think his reasoning is a bit selfish, though. He has not had any used Airstreams on his lot, and he does sometimes get a DP that would suit us. I think he's hoping that we'll see a DP there and fall in love with it.

Have fun with your new home! If you're ever out this way be sure to look us up.

[Mr.Bill]

The other day I was on top of a fifth wheel trailer, looking for roof damage (work-related - I'm a claims adjuster). The thought occurred to me - "this is nuts - I could get hurt up here." I should probably explain that I'm a bit clumsy. This is a topic I don't remember being covered - how physically fit do you have to be to operate a trailer? In my case, because of heart disease my doctor says that I shouldn't lift over 35 lbs. Given that, would it be practical for someone like me to own a trailer?