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Old 08-25-2011, 10:23 AM   #29
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300$ food
500$ gas
700$ camping fees
100$ cell
200$ 2 life policies and auto insurances
300$ entertainment
300$ misc
300$ savings
300$ maintenance

3000k total

3k is take-home after health insurance, no deductibles and very small copay and free or very cheap prescriptions

This is a base budget. Some variables include camping fees, we can use fam camps at military bases, right now we are paying 420$ a month for full hookups. We plan to boondock some and also got to disney so this will vary, I figured 700$ is a good base to start with.

We don't want to travel more than 1k miles a month. Of course this could change when we actually hit the road.

Food is just the two of us. I can feed our family of 4 on 400$ monthly so I'm sure I can do 2 for 300$.

Will have one small dog and no other pets.

Its the misc expenses I want get a more accurate picture of. I've learned a smaller home and less stuff will make all this more doable.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:24 AM   #30
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When you figure in gas make sure to add driving around the area not just traveling to the budget. We did not and have adjusted our budget accordingly.

As for campground fees, if you plan on hitting real touristy (yellowstone, glacier) areas the fees run higher for less amenities.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:35 AM   #31
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Excellent, Paula!!

I see that some are calculating in transportation costs with FT, but not with house ownership. The cost of a garage is "transportation" related whether it is attached or detached, and the costs of commuting for services -- much less employment -- is lengthened by the need for car, garage and the amount of land necessary to build for such, thus it's distance only to be covered by a car. And increase in mortgage costs, etc. An expensive form of isolation. Public transportation access makes moot this point.

The only comparison that makes sense for this thread, IMO, is between renting a home (be it single or multi-family) and FT in an RV. Home ownership also implies equity which no longer exists in this country ($6-trillion worth ruined by Wall Street with the result of fewer Americans having home equity than at any time since the Great Depression; also known as there is no more middle class), thus a comparison comes down to the cost of living on an annual basis for all expenses.

The fixed rented abode will likely always win out when one plans to be car-less and use bikes and public transportation in city/state with great services (also disappearing as Michael Hudson points out: public infrastructure built with property tax is now captured/financialized by Wall Street engineering the sell-off of the public domain as bondholder payments trumps the citizenry; a form of madness) but the rise of fuel prices (consequently all other prices) makes all choices more expensive. There is no place to hide. But those trapped in houses they cannot sell are at a real, a true, disadvantage for labor mobility in the event local, state, regional or personal circumstances change. Being able to leave is everything.

Home ownership was always more expensive than renting. The gamble was that "value" would keep pace with increased costs, and ensure a payout to the owners, even if not a true profit. Enough, at least, to move on to another living situation with ready cash. With the retirement of Baby Boomers expected to see the largest sell-off of houses long-term this society has ever seen over a twenty year period, genuine equity has no real meaning (outside of the top 1% of income earners). House prices are not going to "recover" until 2030 at least. Sell while there are still buyers -- unless already in the ideal location -- if one is already in contemplation of this, IMO.

FT means more than just a few years of "retirement" (another obsolete concept limited to the mid and late 20th century) as it allows one to go where one wants, or where one is needed. As needed. From that perspective Paula's points about RV time share is outstanding. A minimal investment with long-term cheap annual costs. Predictable.

We can see the A/S-only parks in other threads. One idea. Another is something similar where storage units and long-lease pads (with small buildings attached) generate income to an owner group (that change as shares). Group purchases, maybe even of energy-sufficiency such as a Bloom Box or from Clear Water to build re-sale value while holding costs predictable (see also "Biogas"). Stable, predictable value and costs.

Worldwide, 40 cities -- megaregions -- account for two-thirds of economic activity and 85% of economic innovation. In the U.S. this is mirrored by ten [10] regions




"Home" needs to be a place that:

A] Allows mobility for economic adaptation; or,
B] Generates income (or is sufficiently offsetting of same)

The dollars and cents line themselves up more easily if one is determined to do everything by one's self, or wishes to find others of like mind to address needs currently ignored (and parasitized) by a system no longer working. A blend of both is likely. An RV "association" can have different meaning with new-er conceptual lenses.

But misunderstandings, rather, misconceptions about transportation costs must be more clearly understood first. A Class B license and a fifteen-passenger van may be the best TV around in this way of looking at it: income generating and/or income-offsetting . . . .

.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smhx4 View Post
... To top it off I want to keep a stick built small home that's paid for and rent it while we're on the big trips. That'll give us income to help cover living on the road, income we wouldn't have if we occupy the home, therefore getting paid to full-time. Makes it even more affordable.....Woohoo!
...
.
Hate to burst your bubble, but all is doable and planable except being a landlord(land servant).
Every time we had tenants in the rental properties, our trips coincided with problems cropping up. So when you make your plans do it without the income from the property and get a good property manager you can celebrate by using the extra if any to do something special. If it is the house you want to live in again, save the money for the things you will have to replace. Carpets, drapes, appliances, furniture, paint etc.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:57 PM   #33
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Yup! Tenants can wreck far more than the gain from rents. When ya get back, they have pulled three junk cars in the yard after all the oil leaked out on the driveway, infested the house with bed bugs, had 3 dogs and 7 cats confined inside, and operated a meth lab in the kitchen. The air conditioner is missing, the window screens are all gone, rents haven't been paid in three months, and all the shrubs are either gone or dead.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:53 AM   #34
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No bubble bursting here. We have a few years experience with this already. A good property management company is the key here. Good screening of tenants and checking on the property, so far so good. I can handle a bad tenant but if it consistently happens then I'm out. Don't want that kind of stress.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:06 PM   #35
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Paula and everyone:
Great thread. When I decided to settle I too did some serious number crunching and tried to survey the future of our nation/economy. There were some grim forecasts (which REDNAX condensed in nice form). For those who won't have PX and other military benefits (which they deserve IMO) we must seek other cost saving measures.

The photo's below were what I decided I could live within my means and hopefully have a low maintenance property and trailer that's out of the weather to hold as much value as possible.
My bill's are:
$35/mo. electricity that runs the trailer and pumps for the septic field and well.
$65/mo. basic cellphone
$30/mo. Laundry and Coffice which have free wifi
$100/mo. gas for the Ford Ranger (which can't pull the trailer) to visit family within 2hr's radius. And the lawn mower.
$59/mo insurance on property, truck and trailer. (not personal insurance)
Food and beverage I don't keep track of (but I should)
I buy everything used from Value Villiage/Habitat for Humanity/GoodWill/ReStore for over 75% savings.

The AS is a bit too cramped for me for full timing. It'd be different I suppose if I traveled in it as some of you do as the scenery would change. So I built a living space adjacent the trailer which is great for guests and an electric cooking area/eating area.

I believe this is about the least expensive way to live if one desires a little investment land (long term) and peace and solitude. And it's a very "liquid" holdings.....just in case I change my mind. So far so good and I'm 6 months into it.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:12 PM   #36
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Being a landlord - the house next to me was a rental for a long time. After the tenant hadn't paid the rent in 3 months the landlord looked at what would be involved in evicting them. He ended up forgiving the past due rent and paying their moving expenses rather than evict them - it was cheaper. If you rent to someone respectable and then their friend moves in, and then your tenant moves out, you can't just tell the squatter to leave - it takes months to get them out legally. And if they apply for housing assistance you may end up getting paid far below the market value for the rental, with no way to get them out. If the tenant uses your house as a marijuana grow house the government can seize your house as a drug enterprise asset, even if you knew nothing about it.
Having owned the same home for over 30 years I have come to the conclusion that home ownership almost isn't practical unless you can afford to hire a gardener, part-time handyman and/or a property manager to manage the problems that come with owning a house so you have time to deal with work and have some time left over for leisure. Wouldn't it be great to have your butler say to you "The staff has pointed out that the roof is leaking. I've taken the liberty of employing a local roofer to repair it, and arranged for payment from household funds. Please enjoy your lunch."
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:36 PM   #37
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@----> Del Gurney,

Nice setup. Here in Minnehaha county South Dakota, it's illegal to build a shed on a residential lot. I have over 5 acres and the biggest building I can build is 10' x 12'. I can build any size house I want and one detached building 1500 sq ft or less. I was told by county zoning that RV storage is a commercial use and requires commercial zoning.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:27 PM   #38
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@Splitrock: Wow, maybe thats why my family left Yankton (Gurney Seed house and hotel)....but that was two generations ago.
I'm on less than an acre and my insurance co is OK with what I'm up to.

Nice Pic of the falls, I think I've been there but that a long time back.

I never said it was strictly legal but my electrician said half the barns in the area have illegal whole apartments built in to them.

My main worry is propane leak, so the bottles are only opened when I'm actually using an appliance and I always cross ventilate.

If we had that law I wonder where all the migrant farm laborers would stay as they move from crop to crop (Tulips and Greens in the spring and now we're just past the Corn and into the Potatoes and Pumkins.)
Cheers
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:18 PM   #39
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My parents always waited for the Gurney catalog to come in the mail to plan the garden and order seeds and needs. When I bought my acreage in 1980 it was legal to build almost anything. The only restrictions were deed restrictions and I almost didn't have any. Then they changed it to zoned use and then they changed my zoning. By the time I had saved up enough money to build my building, it was illegal.

My next door neighbor is a bare 40 acre bean/corn field. The reason for the prohibition on building on private land is that the owners of the city own all the commercial land and they want that sold and filled up. Now they say I have to own 40 acres before I can build a storage building for my tractors and trailers. I'll never save up enough to buy 40 acres and build a building. Plus, I don't want to move. I like my lot right where it's at.

I'm not sure if all of the United States is like this but I'm pretty sure why there's no building around here.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:18 PM   #40
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Here in SW Missouri it varies. The more populated counties usually have zoning, but the more rural ones don't. Here in Dallas County, north of Springfield, we don't have any zoning at all. You may do whatever you want on your land, unless some State or Federal law prohibits it. Even then, some try it.

We have 10 acres here, with a double-wide and oversize garage. If I took out some of the fencing that we no longer need, I think even a 34' Airstream could easily be parked anywhere here with no backing.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:43 PM   #41
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I like Missouri. Good food, pretty women, and nice scenery. Back in the 90's I spent Aprils in the Ozarks with my camper and motorcycle. I based near Washburn, Missouri, on a friend's 100 acre chicken farm. The local restaurant had smoked pork rib special every Friday night. I can't remember the place's name. It was a guy's name. Mmmmm!!
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:01 AM   #42
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It's been said earlier that there are garages, and there are garages.

Fulltiming with a home base looks good, but not (at least to me) in the conventional way of the past. Fulltiming means just that. Otherwise, maybe property jointly owned with others.

Nice to see what you have going there, Del Gurney.

Splitrock, it's hard to know what's worse. Can't sell an uneconomical, deficit-producing "home", remaining stuck in one place, or what you describe above about being hemmed in.

There's garages, and then there's garages.

I think about a "garage" with a big sun room and screened porch. Some architectural details on the outside to conform to local taste.

But the money needed to operate in mobile manner is likely still better in Paula's example of RV time-shares.

.
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