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Old 09-01-2017, 11:22 AM   #57
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I am a military veteran, I was not aware CA did not tax military retirement.
Unfortunately Veterans Retirement IS taxable. So you want your domicile to be a state with the lowest taxes.

Veterans Disability Income is NOT taxable, not by Federals or CA.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:40 AM   #58
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Following what SteveSueMack wrote, the great Supreme Court justice Learned Hand wrote in an opinion, "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes." Most tax professionals have used his words to guide their morality as it comes to advising clients regarding the tax law. This morality posits that a taxpayer is not obligated to consider the effects on society or whether he is being fair to his friends and neighbors when he takes a tax position that reduces his taxes; those considerations are the job of the governmental body that passes the tax law. A taxpayer's sole consideration is whether he is honestly applying the letter of the tax law to the facts of his situation.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:46 PM   #59
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Thanks McDave - while Hand wasn't ever on the SCOTUS, he's considered one of the greats. This tax opinion is an excellent example. This is why I said it's complicated and depends. Legally, you could imagine there is almost an obligation for a citizen to take fullest advantage of the law to legally avoid (not evade) taxes wherever possible. I don't know the full context of the quote you shared, but that's the sense I get from the quick read. And that's true.

It's also true that for some, being part of something bigger than one's self carries a sense of obligation, maybe even gratitude, that suggests my advantage at the disadvantage of others isn't a good place to be. That doesn't make it right, or required, or better or worse - just is what it is.

In either case - the question of intentional evasion should be off the table. While one may not be obligated to do more than the minimum as a citizen, one can never justify intentionally doing less than that which is required.

One guy's $0.02 - your mileage can and should vary
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:55 PM   #60
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Use taxes as an example - there's a thin line - a thin LEGAL line between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
Don't think there are any loopholes, there aren't. There is the law. Congress wrote the law in a convoluted way to make it possible to reward their friends and punish their enemies. That's why we'll never have a flat tax in our lifetimes.
So, If congress wrote a law to benefit Mr. A, and you happen to be Mr. B, you have the same right to apply the law as he does. Avoiding taxes is perfectly legal strategy, one practiced by everyone with wealth, even those publicly calling for higher taxes (which they won't pay) I remember the Greek shipping magnate, and husband of Jackie O, Aristotle Onassis, observing, "Never pay taxes and always use other people's money."
Remember, 50% of Americans pay no taxes. Legally.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:48 PM   #61
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Don't think there are any loopholes, there aren't. There is the law. Congress wrote the law in a convoluted way to make it possible to reward their friends and punish their enemies. That's why we'll never have a flat tax in our lifetimes.



I'm afraid we're in violent agreement.

So - is CA residency a good or bad idea anyway?
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:18 PM   #62
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A friend of mine was seriously looking to moving to CA. He learned quite by accident how CA works when it comes to residency for tax purposes. He says that the tax people don't look at the amount of time instate but what you might do that demonstrates INTENT to reside there according to the state tax people. This could include buying a car, renting a home, joining a country or other club, seeing a doctor, things like that. He left in a big hurry because being a rather wealthy individual, he was looking at a levy of 13% of his world-wide income. This would be, of course, in addition to his federal obligation and possibly his state of residence as well.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:47 PM   #63
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Any comments on southern Nevada? (Not Las Vegas metropolitan area, that is.) We live in Canada but one of us is a dual US citizen who can see some small advantages in establishing state residency, provided it didn't have to be our primary domicile.

And yeah. Payin' income tax in both countries.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:53 PM   #64
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There is another factor to consider in your choice of residency - quality of life.

I live in Minnesota and we pay fairly high state income taxes compared to other states.

But I think it's a fair price to pay for good roads, great state parks, excellent health care infrastructure, fine University and state colleges, honest government and good jobs.

But you don't need to move here.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:22 PM   #65
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Thanks for that, SteveSueMac. While Hand's quote was often referenced over the course of my career as a CPA, I guess I had to wait until I was retired to find out he hadn't made it from SCOTUS!
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:33 PM   #66
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Avoidance involves knowing and following the law.

Evasion involves lying.

No fine line as far as I am concerned.

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Old 09-13-2017, 11:16 PM   #67
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It sounds like a good idea to you. Being an Los Angeles resident myself, we just purchased a 30 classic and are looking to convert domicile to FL. A lot of YouTube videos do exist about this topic and all of it usually circles around taxes and vehicle registration. Saving on taxes means you can earn less and still enjoy life. That's the whole point of full timing for us -- lower overall cost of living and experience life beyond "the American dream"

Obviously, you need a mailing service or family to be able to register in another state. Mailing service does cost something but it's usually not as much as CA income taxes! It is required in most situations to have your vehicle physicially in the state you registering it at even with renewal so to some people's point, don't pick a state you have no intention of ever going back to. Remember CA also has the strictest smog laws in the country as well which may cause additional vehicle repairs or maintenance that you may not get elsewhere.

I'm looking forward to our adventure. Hoping for the best for you as well!
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:03 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by mistermike View Post
A friend of mine was seriously looking to moving to CA. He learned quite by accident how CA works when it comes to residency for tax purposes. He says that the tax people don't look at the amount of time instate but what you might do that demonstrates INTENT to reside there according to the state tax people. This could include buying a car, renting a home, joining a country or other club, seeing a doctor, things like that. He left in a big hurry because being a rather wealthy individual, he was looking at a levy of 13% of his world-wide income. This would be, of course, in addition to his federal obligation and possibly his state of residence as well.
Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's....

There is no sympathy from me towards those that have wealth and don't want to support the system which gave them that.

If I owe a tax because of my circumstance... I pay it. If there's a legitimate reason I don't owe it... I don't pay it. (and explain why in the tax document)
I don't "game" the system. And there IS a difference.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:50 AM   #69
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Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's....

There is no sympathy from me towards those that have wealth and don't want to support the system which gave them that.

If I owe a tax because of my circumstance... I pay it. If there's a legitimate reason I don't owe it... I don't pay it. (and explain why in the tax document)
I don't "game" the system. And there IS a difference.
Thank you!
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