Can someone reality/sanity check this plan for me?

[Foiled Again]

EXCEPT I did it 5 years ago before the housing market tanked. The house sold twice within 9 months after I sold it, price went up stupid/crazy amounts each time. Then the market crashed.

I've lived fulltime in my AS ever since, but I keep many of my professional clothes at work. And the local women's shelter gets all of my gently used clothing and "what was I thinking" purchases. I've got an unheard of deal on my campground (Condo, I have to move off every 28 days and they close for 2 months in winter - but total cost for 10 months is $1500. Costs about $2000 for the winter and weeks I have to go elsewhere. I can usually do some business traveling when I have to move off of the Condo.) If ANYONE ever wants to buy a campground lot/campground condo or time share... you'll ALWAYS buy for pennies on the dollar if you look on ebay, craigslist or classifieds. )

The world has changed since the real estate market crashed, and 2Air makes some good points. Here are a few more. I'm not a realtor, but lots of my clients are. If you're upside down $40K - decide FINANCIALLY not emotionally. You expect (hope) that the prices will stabilize and recover over the next two years, but that is a gamble. Your current mortgage PITI has a couple of critical numbers. Subtract your principal reduction from the total payment. The remainder (interest, taxes, insurance) is NEVER going to be recaptured. If you have a $1000 per month mortgage and $700 is interest, taxes and insurance - every year you hang onto the property you're paying $8400 for carrying charges. (Yeah, yeah, you get an effen tax deduction of a percentage of the interest but it's NOT that much!) So if your house does not increase in value MORE than $8400 each year, you'll never recoup any part of the expense. OTOH you do have to live somewhere and rent is down the drain too. Talk to a trusted realtor - or interview 3 or 4 NOW.

Lets say you just struggle on and pay the mortgage for two more years - $16,800 ITI - and the house is STILL worth 40K less than you're into it. You will then eat $40K + the $16,800 you "invested" on a hope.

A refinance that lowers your interest rate can lower your payment $200 - $300 per month. You COULD turn around and continue to pay the higher amount and apply it to principal lowering the gap that you're upside down. If not, at least you're reducing what you pay in interest by $2400 - $3600 per year.

Short sale - hateful, but consider the money going into interest taxes and insurance. If you get out from under even if you have to file for reorganization, then you could buy a new house for a lot less than you would have paid 3-5 years ago. If you've just filed for reorganization, you can't do it again for 10(?) years - so creditors will lend you money.

2Air is absolutely right that you can't spend your way out of a financial hole. If you are going to "Go Galt" then start by selling your STUFF and reducing your lifestyle (assuming you're not already living on pinto beans and rice, and keeping the thermostat at 55 degrees while wearing three sweaters.)

Keep thinking... there is never too much of THAT.

Happy Trails. Paula

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Beaker63

Slip7,
Something to consider, the "greenist" house is one that's already built.
Tim

Yup. San Antonio has some nice neighborhoods (Alamo Heights, Olmos Park) with plenty of candidates for renovation (including badly done, recently "updated"). I went to college there a little over thirty years ago and the subsequent urban sprawl made living out on the edge of town far too expensive in terms of time, transportation costs and quality. Air pollution and heat -- smog -- make large Texas cities/metro areas, even on the perimeter, a challenge.

In Dallas we chose an in-town neighborhood (similar to above) to buy and renovate houses. Quality of construction pre-1960 tends to be higher, and there is no end to being able to make a "green home" . . . especially with mature shade trees already present. All the city amenities at hand made time/distances short work, and the increase in property taxes is more than offset by reduced transportation costs.

We also lived for more than 7-mos in our '34 Silver Streak, thru summer, in Texas (north & south) several years ago. Unending days of 100F heat (even at midnite) can take a toll. I liked it fine, my wife not so much. I used the back of our topper-covered longbed pickup, and a remote storage unit, for the items needed. For some, this is not convenient.

Frankly, a used square white box (conventional RV) would be cheaper, roomier, and (if carefully chosen) better insulated to serve as a jobsite trailer. And no concerns about condition . . just sell as is at the end.

My parents retired to Kerrville more than twenty years ago and traveled full time half-years. SA is close enough for some things (airport, hospital, shopping), but Kerrville is a FAR nicer climate year-round without the smog and heat. SA may be a "big" city, but it in no way is comparable with Dallas or Houston for cultural amenities and other opportunities.

Take your time.

An all-alumimum aerodynamic trailer is great to have (and A/S is only one brand among used trailers).

Good luck

.

[Lothlorian]

Wayward:

What is your feeling about using metal buildings for homes? The company that built our steel building also does homes? One more thing what do you feel about pex pipe radiant floor heating?

Sorry to steal this thread.


Brian

[nomader]

Sell it now!
All of that aside. Go full-time, in two or three Airstreams. Start with one, ready to go, 27'ish and your current truck. Do not buy new, buy after they are done depreciating and after someone has restored it right. Find a great deal on a lot that will "allow" it. Get sewer/septic, water, electricity, and possibly access. Beautify the property and build a courtyard that could also become a back porch, build some nice, "easily moved", pergolas. Park the Airstreams under them and grow some plants. If you don't find joy in owning your own historical trailer park, you could build a truly long lasting efficient home, or sell the lot. It would be an experience.

[Goal15]

You might want to check out a very interesting blog that a couple who moved to Texas from Chicago are doing as they get ready to go full time.

One young couple's Airstream International CCD travel trailer RV adventure | Weaselmouth

interesting blog posts

[Splitrock]

My best deals in life have been the bad deals I got out of. Every bad deal in my life was a good deal when I got into it. I've never been screwed by an enemy. Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. Nothing follows a stupid decision like a bigger, stupider decision.

My favorite is by Charlie Munger: Don't do anything where making a mistake would get ya killed.

[TouringDan]

Sorry you have got yourself into a difficult box. Fortunately you are not alone. We had to file Ch. 7 about 10 years ago due to some bad real estate investment decisions that I made. We made it through that and are fine now.

I am not saying this is the route to go. What I am saying is to take a look at all your options. I personally like the idea of the land with the steel building and the AS, but I also think that To Air makes some valid points as does Paula.

Regardless of how you get there, downsizing makes a lot of sense. We have 4 br and 3 baths, but with the kids gone, we live in the kitchen and our bedroom and use one bathroom. It is nice to have the extra room when the kids are home for the holidays, but a travel trailer could serve a similar function.

Consider walking away from your Chicago home. Not a nice thought, but if you are 40K under water, I think you need to consider this. Your credit will take a huge hit, but it will recover in time. Good credit is worth a lot but not 40K.

Consider selling your home at whatever price that is necessary to move it. This way you will be selling and buying in the same market. If you wait for the market to return, what have you gained because now you need to buy in a strong market.

I really think you should sell or give your home back to the bank, buy land with owner financing (not many banks are financing land now) buy or rent a small home and buy an AS that you can tow with your Tacoma and be in control of your life. Don't wait.

Dan

[Slip7]

It's been a few days since I've had the chance to respond. Thanks to all who are brutally honest in their opinions. I'd rather have the reality check than receive unrealistic encouragement.

I've been researching the apartment route alongside the AS. I'm getting mixed signals on what a 05 Tacoma can/can't pull. I really was hoping it could pull a 27 or 28' but I don't think that's possible. I'm working out a budget for how much on a used trailer I can afford and how that factors in with a used T/V.

Looking at apartments is taking me back 10yrs and it makes me feel strange. They look like the inevitable sentence for those who can't think outside the box. I look at those spaces and feel like I've already done that phase in my life. If I throw up my hands in defeat and bow to common logic I know it would be a good choice but not necessarily the "right" choice. Now that I'm a lil older, I don't want to feel like where I dwell doesn't belong to me; like it's just a place to put stuff while I'm waiting for my life to take off. Instead, I now want to experience where I live rather than occupy it. I want to look back and talk about that time I lived in an AS and what it was like instead of the time I had to move back into an apartment while things fell back into place. There is an alternative out there. I just need to find it. It's not going to be the most logical or the thing that most people would do but it's going to be one that works for me.

I'm going to rent out my current house and perhaps eat a little of the overhead until I can get it sold. Selling at a loss is probably invevitable so it's just a matter of mitigating how hard I'll take that hit. I just need to get out from under it as soon as possible. We are also researching older homes that need remodeling instead of building new. My wife is a designer and has convinced me that we don't necessarily have to build right away. Instead, pairing an AS as a supplement to a fixer-upper sounds like more of an adventure than renting. If the market recovers, we could look at selling that house and moving on.

[aluminomad]

Originally Posted by exthemius

I think that there are more and more people either doing now or getting ready to do it. Most people (us included) were suckered into the lifestyle of the establishment (mortgage, kids, 2 cars, both working, etc) and are now second guessing that decision.

VERY similar to our situation... I purchased condo right before wedding, file chapter 13 I believe (which ever one they don't have now), got back on our feet, great jobs, economy crashed, lost job, no jobs, condo went into foreclosure, so needed home for us & 2 dogs... downsizing like you would not believe! it's not going to be all daisy's & campfires... we have a lot of hard months ahead... TO THE STARTER OF POST~ good luck to you & the wife... stay strong & remember your in this together <3

[webtrippin]

I had that same truck. Long wheel base quad cab. Would not want more than 500 lb tongue for it unless you upgrade the springs and maybe even air bags too. It was just too soft for any significant weight.

Good news is that both those are easy to do on that taco and lots of suppliers around so it should not be too expensive if you want to go that route.

[Slip7]

Originally Posted by webtrippin

I had that same truck. Long wheel base quad cab. Would not want more than 500 lb tongue for it unless you upgrade the springs and maybe even air bags too. It was just too soft for any significant weight.

Good news is that both those are easy to do on that taco and lots of suppliers around so it should not be too expensive if you want to go that route.

That's encouraging to hear. Would you feel okay towing your 28' had you upgraded to bags on your taco?

[mello mike]

Slip7, if you really feel good about your decision, then I say go for it and get your Airstream and F150. You only live once.

[webtrippin]

Originally Posted by Slip7

That's encouraging to hear. Would you feel okay towing your 28' had you upgraded to bags on your taco?

Not for long distances. The tongue is 750 on ours plus the gear dogs and peeps r in the truck and everything in the trailer. Moving it empty would be okay but I would not want to travel like that. Older ones have lesser tongue weights so those might be options.

Problem isn't so much the suspension as the axle rating. I am not sure it is even half ton? Taco will take a beating but safety for that much weight behind you would be a concern for me.

Don't let that stop you from getting one if you are keeping it stationary moat of the time. You can upgrade either trailer or truck separately as needed if lifestyle changes. That's what we did and it worked out fine.

[Jammer]

Hi Slip7

Much good advice on this thread already so I'll only add things not already said or where I think extra emphasis is important.

To turn vacant property into a suitable location for camping requires development: driveway, well, septic, electric, perhaps an outbuilding. Development costs money and this particular type of development is nearly impossible to finance.

So you may wish to consider property that is already developed or partially developed for this kind of use, perhaps something with a dwelling that has been recently damaged beyond repair by one force of nature or another.

Or you may be best served by a seasonal or monthly campground rental.

Campground or land of your own, pay attention to commute differences and consider those in your plan since it can be difficult to find a location close enough to work, especially in a larger city like San Antonio.

If you're not planning to travel much in your trailer maybe you don't need a tow vehicle right away. Maybe your existing truck is good enough for a short, one-time tow at low speed, during daylight, in favorable weather. Some people in this situation have rented small U-Haul trucks which come with trailer hitches. Or a friend may help you out, or you can find someone to move it who is in the business of doing that.

The conventional wisdom is that you really should travel in RVs for short trips before seriously contemplating fulltiming. I think this is good advice and if you are new to RVs in general you might want to start with a rental or a friend's unit for a trip or two.

Also do realize that by today's standards Airstreams are among the smaller trailers. While size is not everything you do have to realize that you will not have room for anything much beyond what you use every day. I personally am energized by this and come back to my stick house wondering why I keep all the stuff that I have there but not everyone thinks that way.

In general I will leave the financial math to you except for saying that I would be very, very surprised if you conclude that what you are doing is, in the long run, cheaper than an apartment. Still it might be the right thing for you to do if your future plans involve travel in the Airstream or if your preference is to be in the Airstream rather than an apartment.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

Wayward:
What is your feeling about using metal buildings for homes? The company that built our steel building also does homes? One more thing what do you feel about pex pipe radiant floor heating?
Brian

Radiant heat has many advantages IMO: comfortable, has thermal mass, you can generate heat when cheap (solar, nighttime rates, recovered) and store it in tanks, simpler equipment, can be zoned, many choices in fuel, doubles as domestic hot water, and easy to backup for off-grid or power outages. Some disadvantages is that is is slow to change temperature in the room, and leaks can be a PITA to find/fix.

If you are in a cool or cold climate it may make sense to build an insulated slab or "frost protected shallow foundation" with radiant heat.

You probably know the advantages to steel buildings already...but for residence I think some are: fast to construct, fewer subcontractors needed if in remote location, and known costs. Downside is limited choice in exterior styles and resale. If you are sticking to a simple footprint like steel, and depending on where you are building, concrete block on slab with a truss roof may provide similar advantages without the disadvantages. Depending on climate, using AAC block instead of conventional block would save you having to build framing on the interior side of the walls because they are structural blocks that also insulate.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

The world has changed since the real estate market crashed, and 2Air makes some good points. Here are a few more. I'm not a realtor, but lots of my clients are. If you're upside down $40K - decide FINANCIALLY not emotionally. You expect (hope) that the prices will stabilize and recover over the next two years, but that is a gamble.

Short sale - hateful, but consider the money going into interest taxes and insurance. If you get out from under even if you have to file for reorganization, then you could buy a new house for a lot less than you would have paid 3-5 years ago. If you've just filed for reorganization, you can't do it again for 10(?) years - so creditors will lend you money.

2Air is absolutely right that you can't spend your way out of a financial hole.

I never imagined myself agreeing with this line of reasoning because I have always stood behind my debt, my word and my obligations, but I have to agree with considering options to walk.

I also never thought I would be saying what I am about to but..... the mortgage securities, mortgage "reform" and federal regulations/policies are rigged and corrupt. It does not take much reading to figure out that the taxpayer has been had. I cannot go into the details without getting banned from the forum but suffice to say honest homeowners were screwed and honest taxpayer & investor money was stolen over decades creating the mortgage mess, AND even more taxpayer money was stolen as the mortgage restructuring "bailout" funds all went to the same crooks, politicians and their cronies that caused the "crisis" in the first place

I do not blame anyone but us the voters for letting it happen but now that I know, I do not "intend to pretend". Put yourself first.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by webtrippin

I had that same truck. Long wheel base quad cab. Would not want more than 500 lb tongue for it unless you upgrade the springs and maybe even air bags too. It was just too soft for any significant weight.

Good news is that both those are easy to do on that taco and lots of suppliers around so it should not be too expensive if you want to go that route.

One option that does not come up often enough in these "upgrade the TV vs keep the TV" discussions, is to just go ahead and get the trailer and tow it with what you've got for a while.

Contrary to what some may tell you Slip7, the world will not end if you decide to tow a 25' Airstream with a well setup Tacoma. You will learn a lot, maybe fine tune it into a perfect TV for your needs, or maybe decide to upgrade. It is part of the fun IMHO.

[Slip7]

Originally Posted by Wayward

I never imagined myself agreeing with this line of reasoning because I have always stood behind my debt, my word and my obligations, but I have to agree with considering options to walk.

I also never thought I would be saying what I am about to but..... the mortgage securities, mortgage "reform" and federal regulations/policies are rigged and corrupt. It does not take much reading to figure out that the taxpayer has been had. I cannot go into the details without getting banned from the forum but suffice to say honest homeowners were screwed and honest taxpayer & investor money was stolen over decades creating the mortgage mess, AND even more taxpayer money was stolen as the mortgage restructuring "bailout" funds all went to the same crooks, politicians and their cronies that caused the "crisis" in the first place

I do not blame anyone but us the voters for letting it happen but now that I know, I do not "intend to pretend". Put yourself first.

I also never imagined I'd consider options to walk. That's just not how I was raised. I'm not going to get into the conspiracy of the whole market scam. Let's just say it's not that hard to see the discrepancies but the common man is left powerless while good men do nothing. My bank advised me that if I short sale, I won't be eligible for another VA loan for two whole years. Oh noes...pfft.

I have been researching upgrading the Taco and it's comparatively cheap for what I need to do. I agree that it will do fine for getting it where it needs to go for now but not for regular traveling.

Someone mentioned finding a house on a plot that has the land space I want but the house could be bulldozed or renovated. I've actually found a couple that are in that exact position. They are closer to the city due to their age and two of them already have slabs poured for where the owners parked their RVs/Boats. hmmm....

[waltero]

Hey Slip, I have a 73AS, 25' and I tow with...an 05 Tacoma...the AS is around 4k dry, and even loaded I'm still under 80% of the Tacoma's towing capacity....The engine is the 3.4 with a 6sp manual, you may suffer some loss of power if you have an automatic....Use some common sense, get a good hitch set up and you will be successful...

[webtrippin]

Originally Posted by Wayward

I cannot go into the details without getting banned from the forum

Really?! What a joke. I can see some issues as to why someone would be banned for being agressive or being a donkey! but explaining whey they want to move into an Airstream and travel the country/world/sit on a lot in the sticks with a stockpile of ammo is just backstory and lets us all offer our super valuable and expert opinions on whether an Airstream is suited for their needs.

Civilized discussion about any topic that is banned is ridiculous even if it's not exactly what someone wants people to discuss. Sorry but that's just my opinion. (Will I be banned now for speaking badly of the governance?)

Originally Posted by waltero

Hey Slip, I have a 73AS, 25' and I tow with...an 05 Tacoma...the AS is around 4k dry, and even loaded I'm still under 80% of the Tacoma's towing capacity....The engine is the 3.4 with a 6sp manual, you may suffer some loss of power if you have an automatic....Use some common sense, get a good hitch set up and you will be successful...

That just scares me. I didn't find specs on the 73 specifically since that isn't posted, but the 72 25 footers are 560-580lbs tongue dry. Add LPG and you're going to add another 30lbs to that. It might handle it, but the specs that say 500lbs. Now for sheer pulling weight, that seems like it's mostly due to engine and some chassis ratings. Our 4Runner for example is rated at 7300lbs with the V8 engine, and 5000lbs with the V6. The only difference between the two is the V8 has AWD which adds even more to the TV weight but a little up front. Can the V6 also pull 7000lbs? Probably although maybe not as fast. There's no difference in the frame or the hitch in either case.

Vertical stress vs pulling stress on the frame is quite different. It's hard to pull frames apart, but it's easy to damage them by pounding repeatedly in one spot.