Can I get some feedback on my "master plan"?

[Hittenstiehl]

Sometimes there are a lot of curves in the road from point A to point B :-)

[mammothmama]

@havesomejoe

I'm surprised at how much negative commenting you've gotten! You sound like the perfect kind of person for this adventure: Organized, cautious, intentional, employed but also willing to give new ideas a try and think outside the box.

Here are my counters to some of the points made previously:

Cost considerations:
Buy Used: I bought my airstream 1 year old and saved 25% over what I could have gotten it new. So you are definitely on the right track looking for something used.

Hipcamp: That's a website where people post what I would call one-off camp sites. Some of them are people who own farms and have a little bit of land, or homeowners who are down to have someone camp long term. You might want to check into those kinds of possibilities... Private owners like that may be interested in giving you a long-term rate.

Dating:
Camper life is uber cool out here in CA. So if you're the dating kind, I wouldn't worry that it would freak people out. It would not hurt your marketability in CA at all, for sure.

My 15 year old is already planning his life as an Airstream-dwelling traveling nurse. (That way he can take jobs whereever the best fishing is in 3 or 6 month increments.)

So I'll be watching your progress with interest!

[havesomejoe]

I'm surprised at how much negative commenting you've gotten! You sound like the perfect kind of person for this adventure: Organized, cautious, intentional, employed but also willing to give new ideas a try and think outside the box.

Oh thank you for the kind words. I think I'm pretty capable and resilient.

Cost considerations:
Buy Used: I bought my airstream 1 year old and saved 25% over what I could have gotten it new. So you are definitely on the right track looking for something used.

I feel a lot better looking for used now. I am pretty averse to debt and a <20k loan (of which I can pay half now) would feel like nothing

Hipcamp: That's a website where people post what I would call one-off camp sites. Some of them are people who own farms and have a little bit of land, or homeowners who are down to have someone camp long term. You might want to check into those kinds of possibilities... Private owners like that may be interested in giving you a long-term rate.

I will absolutely be checking this out. Thank you.

Dating:
Camper life is uber cool out here in CA. So if you're the dating kind, I wouldn't worry that it would freak people out. It would not hurt your marketability in CA at all, for sure.

Haha yeah I brushed off that comment, I'm certain living in an airstream the way I'd do it would be a plus for the types of gals I date anyway

So I'll be watching your progress with interest!

Okay! I'm nervous about it but I think I'm ready. Keep in touch.

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by havesomejoe

Hey there,


I'm new here, and very grateful to have found what seems to be a passionate and helpful community.


I wanted to run my plans by you all to get some feedback.


I'm a 30 year old software engineer who has worked remotely (from my laptop) for the past 5 years. I live in Maine, and although I love it here in the summer and fall, I don't like the winter (which is almost half the year here).


Over the past three years I've done a "snowbird" thing where I save up during the summer and fall, and then in the winter I fly somewhere warm for 3-5 months and stay in an airbnb.


I recently was forced to find a new apartment and rents are rising in my area, in the $1200+ range for a studio, which I can afford, but the rental life is weighing on me. Those rates make it harder to save to buy land or build a home.


So this is where my master plan arose...


I don't have many belongings, so I live pretty light. All I need is a place to cook, a bed, and a decent internet connection to do my job. I'm risk averse to debt because of how student loans are a real-world ball-and-chain but I thought, even if I were to buy an airstream new with a loan, 1) the payments would be significantly less then rent. So I could save for other goals faster (I understand if I were to stay at expensive campgrounds, I wouldn't be saving as much) 2) I could do the snowbird thing without having to save for airbnbs. 3). I would be owning the airstream rather than just renting. 4) I tend to take really good care of my belongings so theoretically I could maintain it well and, if I needed to, could sell it down the road (to free myself of the debt). 5) If I buy land, I could live in it while I build a house. 6) Once I have a home, I could renovate it into an airbnb and rent it out to people.


The negatives are that there are of course obstacles and challenges with full-time RV life. Ensuring I have electricity and internet when I need it, keeping my food cold. Problems that don't exist when renting an apartment.



To me, it just feels like the right move. The pros far outweigh the cons.


I think my only uncomfortable feeling is taking out a loan, but I rationalize it because I would need to take out a mortgage anyway for a home and this is honestly like buying my first home in a way. And if necessary, I could sell it and remove a good chunk of the debt.


So.. what do you think? Have you done something like this? Do you know what my biggest obstacles will be?

I read your original post very carefully. My assumption is that you don't own any real estate, anywhere. You are renting in Maine and airbnbing it elsewhere. I do feel that you are careful with your finances. So, as a retired Systems Architect/Integrator, I have the following to offer:


1. Unless your company prohibits it, why do you have to "live" in "Maine"?
2. As long as you have a reliable, broadband internet connection you can live and work from anywhere.


3. Remember, real estate, bought well, is normally an appreciating asset. Vehicles, be they automobiles, rv's, or trucks, no matter how they are bought, are a depreciating asset.


If I were 30 years old, in the IT business, and making a good living, as you apparently are, I would look for real estate in a state that offers; an acceptable climate, low or no income taxes, in a community that fits your lifestyle.


Remember, at 30, there no constraints.


Pat

[havesomejoe]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

I read your original post very carefully. My assumption is that you don't own any real estate, anywhere. You are renting in Maine and airbnbing it elsewhere. I do feel that you are careful with your finances. So, as a retired Systems Architect/Integrator, I have the following to offer:


1. Unless your company prohibits it, why do you have to "live" in "Maine"?
2. As long as you have a reliable, broadband internet connection you can live and work from anywhere.


3. Remember, real estate, bought well, is normally an appreciating asset. Vehicles, be they automobiles, rv's, or trucks, no matter how they are bought, are a depreciating asset.


If I were 30 years old, in the IT business, and making a good living, as you apparently are, I would look for real estate in a state that offers; an acceptable climate, low or no income taxes, in a community that fits your lifestyle.

Remember, at 30, there no constraints.

Pat

Thanks Pat, that seems like wise advice. My brother has also talked to me about how real estate would be a good move. If I got a house that was big enough, I could rent half of it, etc, etc.



You are right, the world is my oyster right now, and I would like to buy land, build a house. The trailer idea came about because I imagined I could do it cheaply enough to make saving to buy those things happen faster.

[kendrick.l.j]

Seems there is at least one a week of folks like yourself looking for alternative living arrangements. It is doable but just keep doing research, reading, maybe go to a couple of rallies to get some ideas. Last week there was a Pre-med undergrad wanting to do the same, in her case it would not have been a good idea but since you are already out of school, gainfully employed and appear to be much more realistic it could work very well for you. Again, keep reading, lots of folks have gone before you and have written about their experiences, learn from them. There’s always pros and cons to any decision just try and gather as many actual facts before you commit. Good luck in your search.

[AFTER TAXES]

just get out there and do it.......u only live once !!!!!!!!
be safe and happy travels

[Piggy Bank]

Here's some math to consider.

Something called total cost of ownership.These are rough numbers, but you get the idea.

Let's say you purchase a 2-4 year old airstream, for 70% of it's original sticker price. You can finance with a standard RV loan. This cost meets the constraints of you budget and what you are comfortable spending.

Let's say your other option is a 2-4 year old Some Other Brand for $14,000.

Your cost for a tow vehicle are the same for the $60,000 Airstream or the $14,000 SOB.

Your gas/site rental costs are the same for each.

Let's say you live this way for 5 years.

At the end of 5 years if you have the SOB, it at 7- to 11 years old is worth virtually nothing, maybe $ 4,000.

The Airstream at 7-11 years old is worth probably 50% of its original sticker. So let's say maybe $35,000.

Your difference in the total cost of ownership would be 60-35 = 25 cost for the airstream.
14-4=10 for the SOB. Would you pay an additional 15,000, or 3000 per year, to live in the Nicer Apartment?

[cazual6]

Being an engineer it would seem you have done the bulk of calculations in my opinion and are looking for validity, which is normal.

I would encourage you to rent a trailer or RV on your next snowbird adventure instead of AnB. This will give you a sense of what's like to live full time.

The routines of living the RV lifestyle is not for everyone. Read up and watch a lot of YouTube videos of living the life style.

You are young enough to be able to experiment on what will work for you.

Good luck.

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by kenfconnor

Many issues to consider as already raised in this thread or others. One to add...you are not likely to impress a date when he/she hears you live in a trailer.

Dr. Meredith Grey did not drop Dr. McDreamy when she learned he lived in an Airstream trailer, so I would not consider such an accommodation a demerit.

[havesomejoe]

Originally Posted by Piggy Bank

Here's some math to consider.

Something called total cost of ownership.These are rough numbers, but you get the idea.

Let's say you purchase a 2-4 year old airstream, for 70% of it's original sticker price. You can finance with a standard RV loan. This cost meets the constraints of you budget and what you are comfortable spending.

Let's say your other option is a 2-4 year old Some Other Brand for $14,000.

Your cost for a tow vehicle are the same for the $60,000 Airstream or the $14,000 SOB.

Your gas/site rental costs are the same for each.

Let's say you live this way for 5 years.

At the end of 5 years if you have the SOB, it at 7- to 11 years old is worth virtually nothing, maybe $ 4,000.

The Airstream at 7-11 years old is worth probably 50% of its original sticker. So let's say maybe $35,000.

Your difference in the total cost of ownership would be 60-35 = 25 cost for the airstream.
14-4=10 for the SOB. Would you pay an additional 15,000, or 3000 per year, to live in the Nicer Apartment?

this math is music to my ears.



I may have found an excellent condition airstream for roughly 15k so I can have my cake and eat it too (KIND OF), in relation to your example.


And yes, actually. I might pay more for the nicer apartment. That's actually another reason I'm looking at airstream. I'm turned off by all the other brown/white boxes out there.

[havesomejoe]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Being an engineer it would seem you have done the bulk of calculations in my opinion and are looking for validity, which is normal.

I would encourage you to rent a trailer or RV on your next snowbird adventure instead of AnB. This will give you a sense of what's like to live full time.

The routines of living the RV lifestyle is not for everyone. Read up and watch a lot of YouTube videos of living the life style.

You are young enough to be able to experiment on what will work for you.

Good luck.

Thats a great idea. I've watched a handful of full-timer videos and it mostly seems like trade-offs I wouldn't be bothered by. As long as I figure out the internet situation I should be set.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

When you are talking about a life change, the math needs to work. Getting into a situation where you just get further behind every day is no fun. Getting ahead each day is way more fun. It's not rocket science. You add up the costs on one side and the increased earnings on the other side. Is there a bit of guesswork? Sure there is, nothing is ever certain.

Loans are interesting beasts. If I buy any of a number of things, the loan cost is subsidized by the seller. Furniture and new cars are two great examples. At the other end is putting something on a credit card. Very much *not* a low cost financing option.

Banks will finance a new RV. They will finance a used one up to some magic number of years old (like 7 or 8). The interest rate will be less than your credit card since there is an asset of some sort involved. How much the interest rate is ... that depends on your credit rating, your other assets / your income, how much you are financing, your down payment, how long the loan term is, and where you live. My rate is not your rate. Guessing your interest rate ... nope ... go down to the bank and ask. Go to a couple of banks / credit unions and ask.

Once you have the rate, working out the payment is pretty straightforward. $70,000 at 4.5% over 5 years is $1,305 a month. Very roughly speaking that's a typical price on a new Airstream. Go to $40,000 and ten years at the same rate, it's $414 a month. Ten years is a pretty long term on a used RV ...

Again, in no way is this a "don't do it" message. It's simply a "do the math" recommendation. There is a flip side to this and it is worth mentioning.

If you are doing drop in work, it is not at all uncommon to find a cost of living payment as part of the deal. Is it $300 a day or is it $50 a day? That can depend a bit on where the location is and how much they need somebody. If they are serious, they will be tossing in something. The high end is likely to be in a big city with high costs. The low end may be someplace *very* low cost.

You don't have to string to many months of $300 a day together (on top of a decent salary / hourly rate / overtime ....) to tilt the math more than a little bit. Unless they are insane, they should also pay travel to get you there. So much for the cost of gas ....

This sounds like a setup for a consultant who is self employed. That's not always the case. There are companies with various forms of "drop in" needs. There are a gigantic number of agencies that specialize in furnishing all sorts of personnel needs. The bucks when working probably are better solo, the question is how big are the gaps between gigs.

Does this all tie together? Well unfortunately it does. Go to the bank with a steady job and you can get some sort of loan. Go to the bank with no track record as "self employed" ... not so much. Hint: Do the financing while you have a job ....

Bob

[Belegedhel]

One word of caution buying any (but especially "older") trailers, is that you have to get good and educated before you go look at it. Read some of the threads on the forums that talk about full rebuilds and renovations, and you can see the kinds of things that go wrong and have to be repaired.

Look on the "Portal" tab of the forums, and scroll down on the right hand side of the screen and look for the "Trailer Inspector's checklist." Have this checklist in hand with you, and bring the tools you will need to thoroughly check it out. Also in that same area on the portal page is a utility for finding volunteer trailer inspectors. If you can take a seasoned individual with you, that would be even better.

Many sellers don't understand how bad of condition their trailers are in. If they have let it set unused for a couple of years, the water system could have frozen and split, the floors cold be rotting from leaky window gaskets, etc.. You want a trailer that people have used routinely, and have maintained. It is VERY easy to fall in love with the first shiny trailer you see, only to discover after the purchase that you have extensive floor rot and a lot of work to do before you will ever be able to live in it. There are many of these tales of woe described here on the forums.

good luck!

[havesomejoe]

Thanks for the additional info. I will absolutely bring that inspector's checklist with me.


Also just to clarify, I'm not a drop in freelancer, I am a salaried engineer working for a "stable" finance company, I just get to work from my laptop wherever I want. They do pay the internet and phone costs as well.


Joe

[PKI]

If it was my plan, I would start searching for a property that has or would allow me to build an RV garage and small apartment. Best would have room for the eventual construction of a nice home. Real estate appreciates. RV site rental depreciates 100%. If your plans require lots of travel, it's possible that only one home base is appropriate. Two seems like a fantastic way to hedge your investment bet. The right location might also have an existing house that could provide rental income.

Lots of ways to leverage a flexible lifestyle with deferred gratification and investment potential.

Pitfalls include local building codes, changes in your objective, and the appreciation life cycle of the location, since not all places appreciate at same rate.

Good luck with your plan. Pat

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by havesomejoe

.......


Also just to clarify, I'm not a drop in freelancer, I am a salaried engineer working for a "stable" finance company, I just get to work from my laptop wherever I want. They do pay the internet and phone costs as well.


Joe

Hi

Ok, so if the job / pay does not change with the "new plan" then the income side of things stays pretty much as it is. That should make the "can I afford this" math a bit more straightforward. Of course there *is* the "two jobs at once / 80 hours a week" approach. I'm guessing that is not part of the plan.

Bob

[coasttocoast]

It’s a steel tube with an inch of insulation mostly designed for following fair weather. You want to avoid condensation. The components are not designed as sturdily as those that you will find in a home. You will not have a garbage disposal or a vent hood or a dishwasher or a washer and dryer like in a house. How much will you spend feeding quarters into a laundry machine? How much propane will you use, and where will you go to get it? How much air condition will you need? Some people say that one AC is not enough. Where will you stay while it’s in the shop? You need a tow vehicle. On the other hand, you can go wherever you want whenever you want. You can eliminate airports and hotels. Owning an Airstream and traveling makes you a more worldly person. You won’t be disappointed in seeing what the USA and Canada has to offer.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Well, it's an *aluminum* tube ... big difference

Bob

[gsp_]

The OP mentioned being somewhat concerned about the details of Internet access - though he has a friend that works from a boat, so he knows it’s viable. The two hardware items you might consider are a mobile hotspot (like a MIFI) and a mobile cellular booster. Just setup a monthly data plan on the MIFI, and use it in conjunction with the cell-booster - and you have what looks and feels like fast wireless inside the airstream (in many locations). Here’s a decent site with wireless info, gear reviews, etc: https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/res...king-remotely/

Some other points to consider: As a software engineer working all day from the AS, you’ll likely use a bit more power than the typical boondocker (external hard drives & monitor, churning through the laptop battery more often, there might be music playing, a router to power, and to keep temperature regulated: a dehumidifier/space-heater/fan/air conditioner running). For sustainable off-grid living, you’ll probably want to investigate the addition of solar + lion batteries as well as a generator for backup. All doable, it just adds to the initial startup costs. Info readily available on the forums for all these things and more.

You’re probably already familiar with how living full-time in an RV and traveling between different locations can complicate healthcare, state-residency, vehicle licensing, registration, inspections, receiving mail, etc. It’s worth reading some of the threads here where folks describe how they’ve dealt with these common problems.

Finally - even off-grid boondockers need to establish a regular cadence of packing up and towing into a civilized area. The size of your fresh/grey/black tanks may regulate how often you have to visit the dump station. Then, there is laundry. You’ll do it with a portable contraption while your out, save it up for a laundromat run, or a combination of both. Dump-station & laundry runs are additional time allocations that will be part of your permanent routine.

You seem to be approaching this very pragmatically, particularly with your openness to purchasing used - and balancing the debt-to-income ratio. As a former software engineer myself and someone who worked remotely for a few years, I only want to ask: what is your plan for ergonomic/comfortable seating/working in the airstream? A setup that won’t leave you feeling fatigued after 8+ hours?

Anyway, good luck - this sounds like a very workable plan.