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07-19-2018, 07:44 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Can I get some feedback on my "master plan"?
Hey there,
I'm new here, and very grateful to have found what seems to be a passionate and helpful community.
I wanted to run my plans by you all to get some feedback.
I'm a 30 year old software engineer who has worked remotely (from my laptop) for the past 5 years. I live in Maine, and although I love it here in the summer and fall, I don't like the winter (which is almost half the year here).
Over the past three years I've done a "snowbird" thing where I save up during the summer and fall, and then in the winter I fly somewhere warm for 3-5 months and stay in an airbnb.
I recently was forced to find a new apartment and rents are rising in my area, in the $1200+ range for a studio, which I can afford, but the rental life is weighing on me. Those rates make it harder to save to buy land or build a home.
So this is where my master plan arose...
I don't have many belongings, so I live pretty light. All I need is a place to cook, a bed, and a decent internet connection to do my job. I'm risk averse to debt because of how student loans are a real-world ball-and-chain but I thought, even if I were to buy an airstream new with a loan, 1) the payments would be significantly less then rent. So I could save for other goals faster (I understand if I were to stay at expensive campgrounds, I wouldn't be saving as much) 2) I could do the snowbird thing without having to save for airbnbs. 3). I would be owning the airstream rather than just renting. 4) I tend to take really good care of my belongings so theoretically I could maintain it well and, if I needed to, could sell it down the road (to free myself of the debt). 5) If I buy land, I could live in it while I build a house. 6) Once I have a home, I could renovate it into an airbnb and rent it out to people.
The negatives are that there are of course obstacles and challenges with full-time RV life. Ensuring I have electricity and internet when I need it, keeping my food cold. Problems that don't exist when renting an apartment.
To me, it just feels like the right move. The pros far outweigh the cons.
I think my only uncomfortable feeling is taking out a loan, but I rationalize it because I would need to take out a mortgage anyway for a home and this is honestly like buying my first home in a way. And if necessary, I could sell it and remove a good chunk of the debt.
So.. what do you think? Have you done something like this? Do you know what my biggest obstacles will be?
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07-19-2018, 08:12 AM
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#2
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
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Hi
It's a pretty good bet that parking the trailer will cost you between $20 and $40 per day. Right there you have $600 to $1200 in costs. Does that include electricity / water / sewer ? Who knows / that depends.
The Airstream is a depreciating asset. Sure, you can get a terrific deal on a beat up used one, put a lot of work ( = $$$) into it and "sell it for more than I bought it for". I've done that with houses. Don't ask about what went in between buying and selling . If you buy new, it's likely you will have about $5K to $10K per year in the early years of depreciation. If it's financed, there's interest. That can be quite a bit if the loan is for $70,000....
So .... hmmm .... does $1,200 in rent still seem so bad? What's above is not your full costs, it's just a quick stab at a couple of them. A lot depends on what trailer you buy and exact situations on each end of your journey.
You will need a tow vehicle when you move the trailer. How much of a vehicle gets into how big a trailer you buy. Most Airstreams get towed with a large SUV or a fairly big truck. Neither is what I would pick as a daily transport. Either you rent a tow vehicle when you move or you own a larger ( = $$$) vehicle all the time.
Indeed your plan does give you freedom to move around. You have the ability to do "drop in" jobs. If that translates into significantly higher pay (even for a couple months), that goes into the plus side of the ledger. In some professions / specializations that alone tips things quite a bit.
One thing to avoid in your planning: "I can just park and live for free". Unless you are out in the middle of the trackless western desert ... not so much. Even there ... err ... water .... Anyplace you can work, there will be local regulations about how you can live in an RV ( = campsite / RV park ).
So, no clear answer. Sorry about that ....
Bob
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07-19-2018, 08:29 AM
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#3
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Trailer Sold, Waving
2019 26' Flying Cloud
Stettler
, Alberta
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,032
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It can be done, either with an RV or a yacht, using the Intercoastal Waterway. Similar issues of campgrounds (marinas) dumping waste, getting water. I'd recommend purchasing in a low or no tax state, like Florida, and setting up your residence there via the mail services companies.
Read some blogs of those in similar careers to see how they have done it. A Streamin Life comes to mind. Traveling nurses and a variety of construction contractors and consultants have this kind of lifestyle. It works for them. Talk to a financial planner and a tax consultant.
Make a very detailed budget spreadsheet, and run out all your expenses and income, and see if it is practical for your situation.
Think hard about your lifestyle, and what kind of RV supports that lifestyle. OK with a pickup truck? Laundry in laundromats? Entertainment? Dining? Visiting relatives? Pets? Health care?
Few of us get to live the life we want. We get thrust into situations or responsibilities that impose mortgages and minivans. That can be great, or just tolerable. Decide on what kind of life you want to live, and go live it, full speed and eyes open. Good luck.
__________________
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 2500
2019 Airstream Flying Cloud 26RBQ
WBCCI #6679
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07-19-2018, 08:38 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1973 21' Globetrotter
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,314
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Hi,
Welcome to the forums!
There are plenty of folks on here who live in their trailers full time, and migrate around the country for seasonal work, so I can well imagine you will get some very personal anecdotal information.
I would encourage you to do a little more research into the real costs of your full-timing cost-benefit analysis. For example:
Understand the actual cost of parking in an RV campground--the ones out on the edge of town, next to the freeway, may only be $35 per day, but the "nice" ones that cater more to the long-term residents, in a more desirable part of town, may be upwards or $750 per month. Understand also that many cities/neighborhoods have regulations about what can be parked where, so even your plans to live in the trailer while building a house may not include being able to live in the trailer on your own land.
An RV or trailer (Airstream or some other brand) is really not an investment, like real estate. Rather, it is like buying a car--the moment you roll off the lot, that trailer starts to depreciate. Buy a $60k trailer today and decide to sell in a couple of years, and you won't be recovering that $60k. Similarly, if any tax deductions still exist for mortgages, they are very unlikely to apply to the purchase of a trailer. One good way to combat this situation is to buy a used trailer that is in good shape. You should be able to pick up a fully functional, campable, liveable trailer for less than $20k. Granted, it may be 20 years old, and you will have to learn up-front how to do some repairs, but you will need that knowledge eventually anyway.
Consider also the other expenses associated with an RV/trailer. First, you will have to have a reliable tow vehicle, next, there will be repairs and maintenance on the RV and the tow vehicle as time goes by. Depending on how handy you are, you can do many/most of the RV repairs yourself, but these are expenses you wouldn't have as a renter.
Now, if your dream is to live full time in a trailer (and you are just rationalizing the decision with the cost-balance), then disregard the expenses, and go full speed ahead!
good luck!
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07-19-2018, 08:43 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1962 28' Ambassador
1961 19' Globetrotter
1962 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,996
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HaveSomeJoe
Yes it's absolutely possible and sounds like fun.
There have recently been a lot of threads on here with folks talking about the idea of doing just what you mentioned. They get a lot of good realistic and down-to-earth feedback. Often times they don't appreciate that frank feedback because they feel like others are raining on their potential parade.
There are also several people on here doing exactly what you describe some of them working some of them not.
Might be good to just keep reading the forms and looking for the threads that talk about full timing and what some of the expenses might be.
Once you work up a realistic budget of some of your known expenses you will have a better idea whether that fits into your lifestyle.
Most all of your expenses will be the same with varying amounts except rent which will now be RV Spot rental. Monthly rates are usually discounted from daily rates for long-term residents. Utilities will sometimes be included in an RV spot if not sometimes electric is separate. And then add propane if you think you will be using that. Airstreams are not typically thought of as four season camping and anytime you hit a freezing temperature you are going to have to do certain things to keep your pipes from freezing and to keep the inside warm and or cool on a warm day.
You will not be able to depend on Campground or RV Park internet and so you will need your own Unlimited plan or Wi-Fi booster set up. Seeing how your work is dependant upon your internet connection if it's not good you have to be willing to move.
You will need a tow vehicle unless you find a recurring spot to Snowbird in and you have your trailer towed there by a transportation company.
Being handy and being able to fix small things is also good with some understanding of tools and DIY.
Keep us posted what you decide.
__________________
Hittenstiehl
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07-19-2018, 09:09 AM
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#6
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Vintage Only
1966 26' Overlander
Ramona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 108
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Many issues to consider as already raised in this thread or others. One to add...you are not likely to impress a date when he/she hears you live in a trailer.
__________________
1966 Overlander, 1981 Excella II, 1964 Safari (for sale)
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07-19-2018, 10:10 AM
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#7
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CC
1972 27' Overlander
Heinsburg
, AB
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 242
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You are in a perfect position to make this doable. There will be as many opinions on this as there are people weighing in. No one will know if this will work or be a fit for you better than you. Do your homework and find what will make you happy.
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07-19-2018, 10:15 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2019 25' International
Washington
, Washington, D.C.
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,260
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If you have not RV'd before, you'll have a little bit of a learning curve on how to hook up and unhook and dump, etc.
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07-19-2018, 11:11 AM
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#9
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1973 Dodge Cayo Motovator
Vintage Kin Owner
Dahlonega
, Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 69
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I suggest you look at www.technomadia.com, a young pair of software developers that hit the road many years ago in a trailer, now have a bus and boat. They publish their costs, tech know how and this will give you some insight as to the nomadic life while working full time. Trailers are not an investment, they are a cost of living expense.
A great idea and opportunity, go for it!
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07-19-2018, 12:16 PM
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#10
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Silver is the new black
2018 30' Classic
NAPA
, California
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 34
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Why not buy a cheaper tear drop or something similar used, that won't skin you alive. Do this for a period of time to make sure it's the life style you like. I love RVing, but would never trade off my teather of hard real estate for a mobile unit. That's my life style.
I towed a much cheaper trailer for years before I bought my Airstream. I could not have afforded the payments then. But now I can because for years I saved up.
__________________
KT
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07-19-2018, 01:23 PM
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#11
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2 Rivet Member
1976 31' Sovereign
Eagle Point
, Oregon
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 52
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Have you considered an Airstream motorhome? There has been some that looked to be good buys on the Airstream classifieds and some nice trailers as well. Don't be afraid to ask for help. You may find helpful Streamers living close by. Good luck in your planning and adventure. Florida is a useful place to look.
__________________
1995 F-250 ExCab Long Bed 7.3 Powerstroke 2WD
Metal Topper w/rack for boat usually full when camping
14 mpg Towing 17-20 Empty
1976 Sovereign 31' CB Rear Twin towed 'on the ball'.
Retired Professional Truck Driver 4 million accident-free miles. Various combo's GCVW 105,000 lbs 105' length.
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07-19-2018, 01:26 PM
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#12
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The Silver TARDIS
2018 30' Classic
Hillsboro
, TX
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
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My first WFH software job was in 1978 and we have come a long way -- wires no longer required! I am now 60 and still a WFH software engineer from NH who FINALLY took the plunge this year and am living with my wife and two cats in our Classic. My employer is in San Antonio. I may have gone overboard but I have a Verizon Above Unlimited (mostly for personal) and an AT&T Wireless Internet 100GB (mostly for work) plan. These have been sufficient so far, running Slack, Zoom, Git, Pandora or Amazon Prime Music all day. It is still an experiment and work-in-progress but this forum is a great place to learn and explore! We'll be heading to Maine for September, then down to South Carolina in October before things get cold. We enjoyed our 20 years of ice and snow in NH. Now it's someone else's turn! I highly recommend the life!
__________________
Kevin Short
2018 Classic 30RB Twin -- "The Silver TARDIS"
2014 RAM 2500 Cummins Diesel
BlueOx SwayPro 1506
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07-19-2018, 03:18 PM
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#13
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Thank you all so much. I GREATLY appreciate both the frank and the encouraging advice.
I went to a small dealer today in New Hampshire and became disillusioned a bit to my original fantasy. I was imagining payments in the $250 range but it looks like it would be closer to $500-$700 for something new. So that has me reeling back a bit and readjusting my expectations. It seems like what maddogkenno says would be a better move. I bought my car new, and enjoyed not having to deal with the constant maintenance of buying a junker, so that was a lot of my rationale.
I still think I want an airstream, but if I can find something decent for 20k or less, that would be a lot more reasonable.
I'm pretty handy and willing to learn to do repairs, and yes, I was kind of thinking I could figure out how to live off-grid to keep costs down.
I may need to slow down a bit. Part of my excitement is that I'm avoiding renting a new apartment while I figure this out but I may need more time to do things right.
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07-19-2018, 03:21 PM
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#14
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinshortnh
My first WFH software job was in 1978 and we have come a long way -- wires no longer required! I am now 60 and still a WFH software engineer from NH who FINALLY took the plunge this year and am living with my wife and two cats in our Classic. My employer is in San Antonio. I may have gone overboard but I have a Verizon Above Unlimited (mostly for personal) and an AT&T Wireless Internet 100GB (mostly for work) plan. These have been sufficient so far, running Slack, Zoom, Git, Pandora or Amazon Prime Music all day. It is still an experiment and work-in-progress but this forum is a great place to learn and explore! We'll be heading to Maine for September, then down to South Carolina in October before things get cold. We enjoyed our 20 years of ice and snow in NH. Now it's someone else's turn! I highly recommend the life!
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That's awesome Kevin!
That's essentially what I'd be doing too. Slack, Hangouts, and the occasional push/pull to the git repo. A co-worker of mine lives on his sailboat with a Verizon MiFi and he never has any issues so I know it's possible. I was imagining if I got solar panels I could even do long sessions of cheap boondocking but I'm not sure I'm thinking it all through this early.
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07-19-2018, 03:29 PM
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#15
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl
HaveSomeJoe
Yes it's absolutely possible and sounds like fun.
There have recently been a lot of threads on here with folks talking about the idea of doing just what you mentioned. They get a lot of good realistic and down-to-earth feedback. Often times they don't appreciate that frank feedback because they feel like others are raining on their potential parade.
There are also several people on here doing exactly what you describe some of them working some of them not.
Might be good to just keep reading the forms and looking for the threads that talk about full timing and what some of the expenses might be.
Once you work up a realistic budget of some of your known expenses you will have a better idea whether that fits into your lifestyle.
Most all of your expenses will be the same with varying amounts except rent which will now be RV Spot rental. Monthly rates are usually discounted from daily rates for long-term residents. Utilities will sometimes be included in an RV spot if not sometimes electric is separate. And then add propane if you think you will be using that. Airstreams are not typically thought of as four season camping and anytime you hit a freezing temperature you are going to have to do certain things to keep your pipes from freezing and to keep the inside warm and or cool on a warm day.
You will not be able to depend on Campground or RV Park internet and so you will need your own Unlimited plan or Wi-Fi booster set up. Seeing how your work is dependant upon your internet connection if it's not good you have to be willing to move.
You will need a tow vehicle unless you find a recurring spot to Snowbird in and you have your trailer towed there by a transportation company.
Being handy and being able to fix small things is also good with some understanding of tools and DIY.
Keep us posted what you decide.
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Thank you!
I actually am kind of a freak about budgeting so I can tell you precisely what I spend (for the last 5 years).
Quote:
You will not be able to depend on Campground or RV Park internet and so you will need your own Unlimited plan or Wi-Fi booster set up. Seeing how your work is dependant upon your internet connection if it's not good you have to be willing to move.
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All set with an unlimited plan that my work pays for. I've also worked from starbucks a lot in my time road tripping so that would be another option if I can find long term camp spots near starbucks.
Quote:
You will need a tow vehicle unless you find a recurring spot to Snowbird in and you have your trailer towed there by a transportation company.
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I think ideally it would be my preference to find recurring spots, but I am in the process of getting a tow vehicle now.
Quote:
Being handy and being able to fix small things is also good with some understanding of tools and DIY.
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I'm quite the problem solver so shouldn't be any issues there.
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07-19-2018, 03:31 PM
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#16
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belegedhel
Hi,
Welcome to the forums!
There are plenty of folks on here who live in their trailers full time, and migrate around the country for seasonal work, so I can well imagine you will get some very personal anecdotal information.
I would encourage you to do a little more research into the real costs of your full-timing cost-benefit analysis. For example:
Understand the actual cost of parking in an RV campground--the ones out on the edge of town, next to the freeway, may only be $35 per day, but the "nice" ones that cater more to the long-term residents, in a more desirable part of town, may be upwards or $750 per month. Understand also that many cities/neighborhoods have regulations about what can be parked where, so even your plans to live in the trailer while building a house may not include being able to live in the trailer on your own land.
An RV or trailer (Airstream or some other brand) is really not an investment, like real estate. Rather, it is like buying a car--the moment you roll off the lot, that trailer starts to depreciate. Buy a $60k trailer today and decide to sell in a couple of years, and you won't be recovering that $60k. Similarly, if any tax deductions still exist for mortgages, they are very unlikely to apply to the purchase of a trailer. One good way to combat this situation is to buy a used trailer that is in good shape. You should be able to pick up a fully functional, campable, liveable trailer for less than $20k. Granted, it may be 20 years old, and you will have to learn up-front how to do some repairs, but you will need that knowledge eventually anyway.
Consider also the other expenses associated with an RV/trailer. First, you will have to have a reliable tow vehicle, next, there will be repairs and maintenance on the RV and the tow vehicle as time goes by. Depending on how handy you are, you can do many/most of the RV repairs yourself, but these are expenses you wouldn't have as a renter.
Now, if your dream is to live full time in a trailer (and you are just rationalizing the decision with the cost-balance), then disregard the expenses, and go full speed ahead!
good luck!
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Thank you for this.
After today's visit to the dealer, a 20k airstream feels a lot more desire-able.
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07-19-2018, 03:37 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1962 28' Ambassador
1961 19' Globetrotter
1962 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,996
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You sound like you have a good head for budgeting, planning and your handy. There are a lot of well-cared-for used units on the classified section here that might fit what you need. They might have just the right amount of stuff already fixed for you. We've bought two units from listings here on the classifieds and both times they came from highly reputable people who are very honest and their descriptions of the units were accurate.
__________________
Hittenstiehl
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07-19-2018, 03:57 PM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
1987 34.5' Airstream 345
Auckland
, New Zealand
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 138
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Havesomejoy
At your age and stage in life there must be many many frelance's like yourself out there looking out to not get skined alive by property owners asking for outrageous high rents.
I work out off my Airstream 345 as a Industrial Design/ Production office with all the luxury n ammenities both for clients and visiting freinds including Marilyn Monroe
Others around me are doing the same, all putting what we save in rent back into developing our individual products. Software Developers included all working creatives. We sit so light on the ground apart from the banana palms, that our costs are negligible, property owner retains the right to move us on at a moments notice, so he and we are happy with that arrangment. He sees us as an asset to him on this industrial somewhat rural site and 20min from a main City.
The preservation and maintance on Airstreams is not expensive at all If you follow the simple procedures. You learn over time like us all. So a good used classic sub $20k and keep it original an it'll go up in value in the end!
Keep up the good work.
Russ
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07-19-2018, 03:58 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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If you can deal with the small size of a Casita 17, you can buy it brand new for about that $20K. It will be worth a lot of that purchase price when you go to sell it, if you maintain it and keep it looking nice. They have quite a following so you will not lose too much money while learning about the world of RV living. We had one owner refer to his as a fibreglass Airstream. The bigger value may be that you can tow it with a smaller vehicle than you might be considering. Pat
http://casitatraveltrailers.com/f-a-q/#toggle-id-15
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07-19-2018, 04:30 PM
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#20
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1 Rivet Member
Portland
, Maine
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl
You sound like you have a good head for budgeting, planning and your handy. There are a lot of well-cared-for used units on the classified section here that might fit what you need. They might have just the right amount of stuff already fixed for you. We've bought two units from listings here on the classifieds and both times they came from highly reputable people who are very honest and their descriptions of the units were accurate.
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Funny how this stuff works out. I got frightened by the high price of new (even though i KNEW it cost that much), and then I checked the classifieds and there is a 1987 sovereign literally in the town next to mine that I could get for 15k I'll keep you all up to date.
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