Rebirth of the Airstream Class A

[Aage]

Originally Posted by masseyfarm

How am I going to get in and out of my motorhome after the "early to bed guests" retire?

What, there's no standard ceiling rail with attached "chair on a chain"??

[Gene]

Dave,

Looking at the photo again, I think you could crawl underneath. But preventative medicine helps—load them up on caffeine and they won't go to bed early. Use an Interstate for a toad and have them sleep there. Leave before they retire and when you get back when the bars close, tell them it is time to get up. If you are NY, bars are open 'til 4:30 am and the sun will be coming up. You can sleep all day while someone else drives. Since you'll be very rich if you own that MH, have your valet carry you across the sleepers. Once they are asleep, gently lower them to the floor, put the sofas back in service and party on. Instead of a run of the mill $1 M MH, get the $2 M model with the ceiling rail and chair on a chain. That chair may have other uses as well when you and your lady get frisky. The really high end MH's are two stories with beds in the basement. That has the advantage that you can lock them in if they have been bad guests.

There are any number of solutions to this. It's lucky you have the Forum to help with this.

Gene

[masseyfarm]

Gene, I did not buy that one 'cause the GW didn't like the ZEBRA pillows and lampshades.

That "chair on a chain" franchise sounds interesting though, might be better than "Witch Hitch". I want in on the ground floor and I am a lucky man.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ml#post1197682

Dave

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Dave,

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Looking at the photo again, I think you could crawl underneath.
There are any number of solutions to this. It's lucky you have the Forum to help with this.

Gene

[Aage]

What, Chair-on-a-Chain©? I'll email you a prospectus!

[masseyfarm]

I just did a Google search and nothing comes up. You might have to get that patent quick, quick, or the idea will be stolen.

Dave

Originally Posted by Aage

What, Chair-on-a-Chain©? I'll email you a prospectus!

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Dave,

Instead of a run of the mill $1 M MH, get the $2 M model with the ceiling rail and chair on a chain. That chair may have other uses as well when you and your lady get frisky.

Sounds like we are going back to bad old days of the "sex in an Airstream" thread. Your "chair on a chain" does have definite possibilities, particularly if it allows several degrees of freedom. . .
.

[masseyfarm]

"several degrees of freedom. . . " was lost with that thread!

Maybe we should try to come up with more basic ideas for this new Class A.

Dave

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Sounds like we are going back to bad old days of the "sex in an Airstream" thread. Your "chair on a chain" does have definite possibilities, particularly if it allows several degrees of freedom. . .
.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Use an Interstate for a toad and have them sleep there.

You jest, but Saturday morning, while en route to DeGray Lake Resort State Park in Arkansas, I saw a Class A southbound on I-49 near Alexandria, LA, that was towing a Sprinter van as a toad. Didn't look like an Interstate, wrong side windows. Probably just a Sprinter passenger van. Still, as proof of concept…

Honestly, I didn't know that you could tow a Sprinter four-down. I'll have to spend some of my hard-earned vacation time re-reading the Sprinter manuals that came with my Interstate to check up on that.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

You jest, but Saturday morning, while en route to DeGray Lake Resort State Park in Arkansas, I saw a Class A southbound on I-49 near Alexandria, LA, that was towing a Sprinter van as a toad. Didn't look like an Interstate, wrong side windows. Probably just a Sprinter passenger van. Still, as proof of concept…

Honestly, I didn't know that you could tow a Sprinter four-down. I'll have to spend some of my hard-earned vacation time re-reading the Sprinter manuals that came with my Interstate to check up on that.

I have towed my older '04 Sprinter 4 down across country behind my '98 Foretravel diesel MoHo. Roadmaster makes a front bracket than bolts to the frame along with their 10,000 lb. Blackhawk II tow bar. The only other problem was the drivetrain. I opted to manually unbolt the driveshaft from the rear end and hang it on a special bracket..... a quick 3-5 minute job if you have the method down and tools prepared.

Other folks have used the Remco driveshaft disconnect system, but that involves having the military type spline system welded into your driveshaft, then having the whole deal re-balanced.

On the newer Sprinters, there is a 2 piece driveshaft which creates other problems for the Remco system, but you can still unbolt it from the rear end manually.

Unlock the steering column, pull a fuse or two and off you go!

[masseyfarm]

I see this with high expectations that much of this design will be on the road in the near future.

CONCEPT S (EN) - YouTube

From a Class A point of view, the narrow front end allows a greater setback of the front axle, less wind resistance, quieter ride, and will make the front entry door obsolete for ever.

No more 'ant-eater' mirrors out front to foul your photo shots as they will be replaced with rear view cameras.

Tapered-body rear ends will again allow longer overhang to allow for that large, luxurious, round bed in the rear you always dreamed of.

No more after-market roof mounted air brakes, everything is mounted through internal design.

With all wheel electric hubs, the Ballard Hydrogen Fuel Cell mounted in the rear powers the unit quietly and efficiently.

No more aux. generator required.

The Ballard exhaust is recycled direct to the #2 water tank for use in the domestic water requirements. The #1 fresh tank is now something similar to your stand alone water dispenser with refills available at any retail outlet.

The solar panels, designed as part of the roof structure, will now be so efficient that they will produce enough energy and hydrogen production to supplement the Ballard fuel requirements.

The glass throughout will be photo sensitive, just like your sunglasses, to keep the inside cool.

With all the weight savings of the new materials, the waste tanks sizes are triple that currently offered.

I wish I could draw?

Dave

Originally Posted by masseyfarm

The widest part of the coach is in the beltline area, with the bottom sill actually inside the tire track to avoid curb damage. The window area flows into a rolled roof, and the "Buffalo" had the smaller frontage with the roof tapered up to the coach roof.
I am suggestion something similar, 102' wide body, with the cockpit tapered to 96" at the windshield(s) and the roof sloped back to the main body.
Dave

[masseyfarm]

The new AIRSTREAM Class A should be easy for Airstream to mock up.

Thor already uses the possible windshield on their 'ELDORADO' line of coaches although that is about all that the 'ESCORT RE-A' model can contribute.

This windshield, if given a bit more slant, has the right design to make an efficient w/s on the new Class A.

The new Class A might have:

The width at the bottom of the windshields is 96" flowing out to 102" at the rear standing area of the cockpit at the same level.

The cockpit side is rolled to the narrower windshield top, utilizing double compound curved side glass to a height to match the w/s.

The roof tapers up and back from the w/s top with shallow stepped lines to flow evenly into the main body at the top rear of the the cockpit, with a bit longer blend line as the roof meets the side body.

At some later date, if production meets anticipated levels, the w/s could be upgraded to a one piece to enhance visual enjoyment.

The main body side windows would hang from a common design line 18" or more above the top of the w/s.

Coffee time!

[Gene]

Dave,

Maybe you get convince Thor to license you to build the Class A on Vancouver Is. in your own factory. First you have to make a clay mockup and provide detailed plans, of course. Maybe you can get the BC gov't to subsidize it. I don't know what the break even point is for this—100, 300, 500/year? Thor likes big profits at the expense of quality, so they'd expect big payments/unit for the license.

When you get a go ahead, you'll have to build a prototype and I'd be glad to test it for you in the spirit of international comity and friendship. Since I was an engineering major for 2 months, I would be qualified for a significant remuneration for testing the unit (if beer drinking is included in the test, I have more substantial qualifications going back to college).

I don't see many Airstream MH's on the road, but older ones where they actually made them look like Airstreams are the best ones so far as looks. The newer ones that look like any other MH killed the Airstream MH business and was probably done to save some money. This was a dumb decision and probably cost Thor more than they saved. Since executives have a hard time admitting they made a mistake, that doomed an Airstream MH until all of those guys are gone.

Since you'd want to get Airstream trailer owners to move up to an Airstream MH, and since trailer owners are used to smaller RV's, one model that may sell is a MH about 25-27'. These are usually Class C's, but don't have to be. It is an ignored market segment, I think. The floor plan of a 25-27' MH is hard to change; they all look the same. The trick to stand above the rest is to figure out an innovative floor plan. Once you get those going, a 30' toy hauler that comes with a Smart Car inside the toy compartment would be the next innovation.

Gene

[masseyfarm]

I gather what we are trying to accomplish here Gene is to enforce the desire/need for a new larger Airstream Class A. We are all different and we each have specific needs to make our recreation hours enjoyable.

There will always be a market for the basic and the most luxurious RV, but the test of time separates the quality from the junk.

My experience is that Airstream had a vision of long term quality, that may have been compromised at times by budget restraints, but generally speaking have succeeded in producing a quality designed product.
(Having said that, quality control has certainly slipped at different times over the history of production).


"build the Class A on Vancouver Is. in your own factory"


I would sure like to build a quality four season motorcoach with materials that would stand the test of time and require little repetitious maintenance. And if I owned the company myself I would not have to make 20% profit for the shareholders after every other imaginable expense had been deducted.
I doubt I would ever be in a position to do that, unless I win the big one, and I probably would then be enjoying life too much to dedicate the time required if that was to happen.



"I don't see many Airstream MH's on the road, but older ones where they actually made them look like Airstreams are the best ones so far as looks. The newer ones that look like any other MH killed the Airstream MH business and was probably done to save some money. This was a dumb decision and probably cost Thor more than they saved. Since executives have a hard time admitting they made a mistake, that doomed an Airstream MH until all of those guys are gone."


It won't be long before the turnover of executives is complete and Airstream will re-enter the market because luxury (the image) is what they sell and the thrill of success, where someone previous has failed, will be too hard to resist.


" Maybe you can get the BC gov't to subsidize it."


There is no way Canadians will support subsidies for job creating industries any more. That came to an end a few years ago when we watched how the Walmart Walton's exported jobs and brought the finished product back to America for mere pennies on the dollar.



"Since you'd want to get Airstream trailer owners to move up to an Airstream MH, and since trailer owners are used to smaller RV's, one model that may sell is a MH about 25-27'. These are usually Class C's, but don't have to be. It is an ignored market segment, I think. The floor plan of a 25-27' MH is hard to change; they all look the same. The trick to stand above the rest is to figure out an innovative floor plan. Once you get those going, a 30' toy hauler that comes with a Smart Car inside the toy compartment would be the next innovation."

I think you are looking at the wrong segment of the market to target. The smaller motorhomes are a dime a dozen and most of them are throwaway over a short lifespan. They are built on light duty chassis that are changed by the OEM's every four to five years and not supported for long after that. We have to get beyond that, with a quality, upper end, motorhome that substitutes all the amenities of our home. (who wants to stay in a Hotel room today?)
The 35 to 37' motorhome is actually easier to drive and park than most truck/trailer combinations. It gives better visibility, and costs about the same to operate. A quality motorhome will travel with full load including fluids, which you probably would not do with a travel trailer.



"When you get a go ahead, you'll have to build a prototype and I'd be glad to test it for you in the spirit of international comity and friendship. Since I was an engineering major for 2 months, I would be qualified for a significant remuneration for testing the unit (if beer drinking is included in the test, I have more substantial qualifications going back to college)".


We would only drink beer for the celebration of actual production, as I think maybe some designers of the past have been into the juice to early in the design stage if you judge some of the products that have been produced over the years.

Dave

[masseyfarm]

Some of the exciting new/old products that wil be used in the new Airstream Class A motorhome will be produced right here in North America across the cotton belt. (imagine, no more luan?)

Henry Ford pioneered these products in the 30's but your government, that always knows best, shut the industry down after the WWll when these quality products were deemed to be no longer required for average daily use



The durability of these products is unmatched.

BBC News - Hemp: Could the US rekindle its love affair?

[masseyfarm]

Where are you AIRSTREAM?

There is so much to be accomplished and gained by good design and taste. Imagine an updated version of this beauty.

Old Bus Photos for staley bus sales

If you want to see where design is going in the future, just look into the past.

Dave

[masseyfarm]

I think FRED may have a good idea here.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f156....html#post2830


"The next step would be to make a pop-up top with screened porch and maybe beds! On the nice nights, you could sleep ten feet off the ground and get a breeze. Of course your rig would be 18-20 feet high at that point!"

There is a lot of valuable space used up within the bedroom(s)/bunks in a motorhome which is only needed after hours in most cases. Some have tried the Murphy bed to free up space for the smaller units. But Fred's idea might have saved the SKYDECK if AIRSTREAM had developed the idea into more of a family friendly motorhome. I would feel a bit easier, when boondocking, to send the kids/guests up to sleep on the roof in a screened structure than in a pop-up trailer at ground level.

The skydeck, which was limited to 39,' has a floor plan that was cut up inside with the staircase. But if Airstream had taken this design to 43-45', it would have been a more stable unit with more choice of layout inside.


If you had a overhead pull down stairs, combined with a pop-up sitting/sleep area, this might have been more family friendly.

Dave



Dave

[Gene]

I agree looking to the past for design ideas is a good choice. Some of the best looking cars were made in the 30's, especially in France. I am also partial to Auburns of that era. I see some things borrowed from that era (large wheels and cutouts for ex.), but most production vehicles look ugly or boring. Of course, we buy boxy SUV's and trucks because they are practical. If Wally could find inspiration from planes, maybe we could from cars—and locomotives. Some of the locomotive designs of the 30's and 40's which emphasize the look of speed could be transferred to MH design.

Some of the old busses I saw from the link a few posts up are really cool and some are kind of weird. Mostly, despite the attempts to try something sexy, they are rectangular solids with windows.

As for the smaller MH, it would costs less and use less fuel. There may be lots of them made by lots of companies, but an Airstream one would stand out if made well.

Gene

[Keyair]

[masseyfarm]

The problem with windows and skylights are the leaks and condensation risks that come with them and the added cost of heating/cooling that each window demands.

Today, with the modern technology available, high resolution cameras and display panels would give you unhindered visual, with the flick of the channel, of all areas around and above your motorhome. And if you are stuck in that WM parking lot, you could put on the Niagara Falls show.

Check out some of the options here.

Sky Factory Brings Nature Into The Drabbest, Windowless Cubicles | Co.Exist: World changing ideas and innovation

Dave

Originally Posted by Keyair

Me, personally, I would like to see a huge glass moon roof in the bedroom... maybe even retractable or tiltable so I can stargaze on those stunning desert nights!

[Smartstream]

Dave it's pretty obvious that you feel bigger is better and your fondness for new technology and innovation. I can see the merit in your ideas however, camping especially boon docking to me indicates a desire to get out and enjoy this beautiful world that we live in. Being couped up in a windowless box looking at LED screens of the nature outside just is not something I would choose to experience. If we have the technology to build these realistic cameras and displays than somebody ought to be able to build a window that doesn't leak.

In the sailing community there has always been a similar discussion about the proper size boat. The same bigger is better argument exists with the larger boat providing safety and creature comforts. The interesting thing is the average size boat cruising the world, those boats actually crossing oceans not just sitting in slips, is 33 feet. Not the 60' mega yacht at the prestigious yacht club but a modest 33 feet.

Airstream has been building trailers for many years with the largest being 34' and the most popular being much smaller. The small Interstate being sold today seems to be doing well.

My vote is for an iconic looking, aluminum uni-body frame-less construction, diesel powered, under 30 foot coach. It should be functional, well built with quality components and sold at a competitive price.

It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. By the way my sail boat is 44' so I do have some experience with larger modes of recreational transportation.

Cheers, Dan