Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-03-2013, 04:53 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
adonh's Avatar

 
1976 31' Sovereign
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Missouri City , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,089
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 6
Bio Diesel Fuel

When I had the Airstream 396 XL at Freightliner for service the technician was going over a few things with me and suggested that I not use "Bio Diesel Fuel" if possible. He said this can cause problems like clogged fuel filters and other issues. I had not noticed anything about Bio Diesel when refueling but did see a sticker on a Texaco Diesel pump today that stated the diesel fuel contained up to 15% of Bio Diesel. Is this standard and how much is to much.

Thanks
__________________

__________________
Don Hardman
1976 31' Sovereign
2005 396XL Diesel Pusher Motor Home
adonh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,503
In 2005 some engine manufacturers produced engines capable of burining B20 (20% bio diesel). You should check with the manufacturer and not rely on one opinion. There is a general consensus that B5 is acceptable for all engines and some states mandate B5 or (like Illinois, B11). The issue with using B20 in an engine with many miles on it is the fact that Biodiesel is a very good solvent and all the crud built up in the fuel system over the years will be cleaned. If you find you are b20 compatible, carry a couple of extra filters until the system gets cleaned. There is a lot of misinformation surrounding biodiesel, just like ethanol.
A little bit of truth, exaggerated into something completely false, generally.
__________________

__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:56 PM   #3
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,649
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
In 2005 some engine manufacturers produced engines capable of burining B20 (20% bio diesel). You should check with the manufacturer and not rely on one opinion. There is a general consensus that B5 is acceptable for all engines and some states mandate B5 or (like Illinois, B11). The issue with using B20 in an engine with many miles on it is the fact that Biodiesel is a very good solvent and all the crud built up in the fuel system over the years will be cleaned. If you find you are b20 compatible, carry a couple of extra filters until the system gets cleaned. There is a lot of misinformation surrounding biodiesel, just like ethanol.
A little bit of truth, exaggerated into something completely false, generally.
Don't tell Ford... or anybody else, but I run B80+ in my 1996 PSD's.

The two biggest problems with running anything over B15 is the fact that BD cleans the crap out of the system and if you have an older fuel system it will attack the rubber in the fuel system. On both of my PSD's I have upgraded the hoses and all is good. My OTR (over the road truck) runs a mix of whatever I can get, I much prefer B80 but have trouble getting it on a regular basis when traveling. I do carry spare filters because that is the first thing to give me trouble when I switch between the B80 and the DinoDiesel.

Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
masseyfarm's Avatar

 
Tub City , British Columbia
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,911
Images: 44
The fact is, if we are traveling, we don't have much ability to pick and choose the fuel supplier.

As mentioned, I would get a second opinion direct from CAT on your C7 Don. It is of recent design and may well tolerate the new fuels without much concern. Your contact at Freightliner has obviously experienced these problems in the past or would not have taken the time to advise you of such.

A spare fuel filter is always part of the kit I carry. If you do ever have to change it, try to fill the filter canister with fuel before installation or you may have more problems.

On the older engines, (my 8.3) there are diesel additive treatments that may be of help? When traveling outside of Canada, I carry some 2 cycle engine oil that I can add to the fuel if I am forced to fuel where a high ratio "BIO" is being dispensed.

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by adonh View Post
When I had the Airstream 396 XL at Freightliner for service the technician was going over a few things with me and suggested that I not use "Bio Diesel Fuel" if possible. He said this can cause problems like clogged fuel filters and other issues. I had not noticed anything about Bio Diesel when refueling but did see a sticker on a Texaco Diesel pump today that stated the diesel fuel contained up to 15% of Bio Diesel. Is this standard and how much is to much.

Thanks
__________________
"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go." William Feather

"The use of traveling is to regulate imagination by reality, and instead of thinking how things may be, to see them as they are". Samuel Johnson
masseyfarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,503
This is out of the Duramax owner manual supplement of 2013. FWIW.


Biodiesel What is biodiesel?
Biodiesel is a fuel produced from vegetable oils or animal fats that have been chemically modified to reduce the possibility of damage to the fuel system and engine.
Notice: Raw vegetable oil or other unmodified bio-oils or fats are not biodiesel and must not be used in your vehicle as they could damage the fuel system and engine.

What not to use
Do not use home-made biodiesel in your vehicle since its quality cannot be verified by approved scientific methods. Home test kits are not approved scientific methods.
Notice: Any damage caused by raw, unmodified, or home-made biodiesel would not be covered by the vehicle warranty.

Biodiesel blends
It is acceptable to use diesel fuel containing up to 20% biodiesel (B20). The diesel fuel portion of the blend must meet the same specification, ASTM D975 (Grades No. 2-D or No. 1-D S15 commonly known as Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel), as other fuels used in your vehicle, and the biodiesel used for making this fuel must meet the latest version of ASTM specification D6751.
  • Pump labeling — Retail pumps dispensing blends containing up to 5% biodiesel (B5) are not required to be labeled with the concentration of biodiesel. Blends up to B5 must meet ASTM D975 (Grades No. 2-D or No. 1-D S15 commonly known as Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel). Notice: Do not use blends containing more than 20% biodiesel. Any engine, fuel system, or exhaust after-treatment system damage caused by the use of such blends would not be covered by the vehicle warranty.

    Pumps dispensing more than 5% and up to 20% biodiesel are required to be labeled with the concentration of biodiesel. When refueling with a biodiesel blend above B5, ensure one of the following two labels appears on the dispenser:
  • Biodiesel quality — Blends containing more than 5% and up to 20% biodiesel must meet the latest version of ASTM specification D7467 (Biodiesel blend, B6 - B20). Biodiesel is an emerging product, and its quality can vary widely. To reduce the risk of poor quality fuel, we recommend that biodiesel users purchase biodiesel blends from a BQ-9000 certified marketer. A listing of certified marketers can be found at BQ-9000ģ - The National Biodiesel Accreditation Program. If there are questions about the biodiesel-containing fuels you are using, contact your fuel supplier.
Notice: Certain driving patterns are not compatible with biodiesel use. It is the operator’s responsibility to ensure that biodiesel in the vehicle’s tank does not lead to engine, fuel system, or exhaust after-treatment system damage.

We neither encourage nor discourage the use of biodiesel blends for vehicles. As a renewable fuel, biodiesel provides some environmental benefits. However, biodiesel has unique properties and needs to be handled differently than diesel fuel. Its use presents additional risks and may not be appropriate in all situations. Certain vehicle operating modes increase these risks and should be avoided. Read further to determine if your driving habits are compatible with the use of biodiesel.
  • Biodiesel fuel quality degrades with time and exposure to high temperature much more quickly than conventional diesel fuel. More frequent refueling provides the best opportunity to have a supply of fresh fuel. Owners who have very low fuel usage or who have vehicles stored for extended periods of time should avoid the use of biodiesel. Storage at hot ambient temperatures will accelerate biodiesel degradation.
    When vehicles will be stored for extended periods of time (greater than one month), they should be run out of biodiesel to below one-quarter tank, refueled with conventional Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, and driven several miles before storage.
  • Biodiesel gels sooner than conventional diesel fuel at cold temperature, and biodiesel fuel requires proper blending for winter time operation. Fuels improperly blended for cold temperature operation may result in restricted fuel filters and degraded vehicle performance. Your vehicle is equipped with a fuel heating system to provide a level of protection against filter plugging from gelling (waxing) of conventional diesel fuel and biodiesel blends. However, the system will not prevent all cases of plugged filters if the operating temperature is far below the temperature at which gelling or waxing of the fuel occurs (cloud point).
    Use of biodiesel blends greater than B5 (5% blend) should be avoided in cold temperatures.
  • Vehicles operated for extended periods of time on conventional diesel fuel and then switched to biodiesel blends may experience premature fuel filter clogging and require more frequent fuel filter service. With long-term use of conventional diesel fuel, gum and varnish may be deposited within the tank and fuel system. These deposits, while not problematic with the use of conventional diesel fuel, may become loosened with a sudden switch to biodiesel blends and cause fuel filter plugging.
    This vehicle is equipped with a fuel filter restriction monitoring system that will alert you if the fuel filter requires service, but it will not prevent damage caused by poor quality biodiesel.
  • Use of biodiesel blends will degrade the performance of your vehicle’s water separator. Biodiesel reduces the effectiveness of the vehicle’s water separator, and in the event of water contamination of the fuel, increases the risk of damage to the fuel system.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 09:50 PM   #6
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar

 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Round Rock , By Grace of God, Texas!
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,199
Keep receipts. I have all my fuel receipts since purchase and can prove what qnd where purchased. IF you have a fuel caused problem then the last supplier can be contacted.

If you buy at majors you will encounter minimal resistance to an financial settlement.
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 10:24 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 30' Classic
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,894
Images: 8
Both my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel and 2012 Dodge Cummins HO diesel engines allow ONLY 5% bio-diesel. Love's truck stops have a small sticker on both the RV and big Rig pumps saying their fuel may have up to 20% bio-diesel. Your engine warranty can be at risk if the fuel contains more than 5% bio-diesel.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 800 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 05:23 AM   #8
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
Metairie , Louisiana
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
Both my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel and 2012 Dodge Cummins HO diesel engines allow ONLY 5% bio-diesel. Love's truck stops have a small sticker on both the RV and big Rig pumps saying their fuel may have up to 20% bio-diesel.
My 2012 Interstate (2011 Sprinter) owner's manual also says that I can use B5 but not B20.
Quote:
Refuel only with commercially available vehicle diesel fuel, ULTRA-LOW SULFUR DIESEL with a sulfur content no greater than 15 ppm. Fuels such as fatty acid methyl ester FAME (bio-diesel fuels), marine diesel, heating oil etc. may not be used as a diesel fuel mixture. Refuel with B5 bio-diesel only if it fulfills the requirements listed under "Fuel quality".
Quote:
Do not use any fuel additives, and use approved flow improvers only when necessary.

Refuel only with commercially available ULTRA-LOW SULFUR DIESEL (ULSD, maximum sulfur content of 15 ppm) that conforms to the ASTM D975 standard. We approve the use of B5 bio-diesel (ULSD with a maximum bio-diesel content of 5% by volume ) for all Sprinter diesel engines with Common-rail Direct Injection (CDI).
You may refuel with B5 bio-diesel if the biodiesel content is in accordance with the ASTM standard D6751. It must also have the necessary oxidation stability (at least 6 h in accordance with the EN 14112 standard) to avoid damage caused by deposits and/or corrosion.


So far, in my area, Love's is the only chain that has B20, so that's not much of a problem; I have yet to drive anywhere that Love's has a monopoly on diesel fuel sales.

I don't notice much difference in fuel economy or performance when using B5 versus using non-bio diesel.
__________________
WBCCI #1105
TAC LA-4

"In a perfect world, I'd be given enough time to wrap up one emergency before the next one starts." óFreefall©2013
Protagonist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 07:25 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 30' Classic
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,894
Images: 8
So far, Chevron still has straight Diesel fuel at local stations. I installed a 56 gallon in place of the OEM 34 gallon tank, so have some flexibility to select where I fill up. Pilot & Flying J were still straight diesel on the last road trip.

If one gets off the interstate system onto secondary roads (like in Kansas), I have had an occasion where a Love's was the only game in town for diesel.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 800 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Airstream Classifieds



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.

Airstream News Delivered to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with Airstream news in your inbox!

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]