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SteveH · 04-10-2013, 08:33 PM

Get your o-scope and check it out. Then you might understand. If not then, go back and read some AC and transformer theory.

HiHoAgRV · 04-10-2013, 08:53 PM

It's dark outside and i can't see the transformer on my pole, so I grabbed my meter and stuffed one lead into the ground hole of my 50 A RV outlet and the other lead into the flat hole...it read 122 volts. I stuffed it into the other flat hole, it read 124 volts. Then I stuffed each lead into the flat holes and it read 245 volts.

Phases? How cares!

My 220 volt, 3 hole dryer outlet had the exact same result...

IMHO, 50A RV = a goofy pin configuration of a 3 pin 220 V outlet

SteveH · 04-10-2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

It's dark outside and i can't see the transformer on my pole, so I grabbed my meter and stuffed one lead into the ground hole of my 50 A RV outlet and the other lead into the flat hole...it read 122 volts. I stuffed it into the other flat hole, it read 124 volts. Then I stuffed each lead into the flat holes and it read 245 volts.

Phases? How cares!

My 220 volt, 3 hole dryer outlet had the exact same result...

IMHO, 50A RV = a goofy pin configuration of a 3 pin 220 V outlet

Yep, that's exactly what you are supposed to read with an AC voltmeter.

SteveH · 04-10-2013, 09:22 PM

I'm terrible when it comes to drawing with a computer, but I found this schematic online that shows 240 VAC, and shows how one 120 volt polarity at a given time in the sine wave is opposite from the other, reference the neutral, or center tap of the transformer.

jmpratt · 04-10-2013, 11:07 PM

I just read this thread and I thought SteveH was right even before he posted that last picture. But the picture explains it nicely and it makes perfect sense. That must be why he lives in Common Sense, TX!

The key to seeing both phases if to reference each to ground (center tap). To see 240V, you can't reference the center tap, you have to put your scope across the entire (both ends) of the transformer.

SteveH · 04-11-2013, 06:55 AM

In the beginning, I should have never said the word "phase", because I know when used around Electricians it gets the nape of their necks all bristled up. When they hear the word, they immediately think of three phase power, and I understand why because that is one of the things they work with.

I don't know of any residential three phase power systems, but there might be, just don't know of them.

My statement was about the pure phase angle of the sinusoidal waveform of the two 120 volt legs in a 240 VAC system.

And, I would like to apologize to "JourneytoRet" for totally destroying his thread about 30/50 power in an RV park.

BarnacleBill · 04-11-2013, 11:50 AM

OK. Here’s how it works.

If you increase the temperature and the electro-magnetic pressure on the Dilithium crystals, you can increase the amount of power generated in the reaction chamber, then channel the energy released by the mutual annihilation into a stream of electro-plasma.

Oops wait, wrong thread, sorry.

markdoane · 04-11-2013, 12:03 PM

But don't you need a flux capacitor in the circuit also?

dznf0g · 04-11-2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdoane

But don't you need a flux capacitor in the circuit also?

Yeah, but then you'd need a Mr. Reactor and then you'd have to find a banana peel and half a can of Schlitz.

Skater · 04-11-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idroba

The main problem is that the National Electric Code has required GFIC outlets in RV park systems for many years now and thus finding a park without one is rare, and if you do find one, you probably should leave anyway.... it is old and illegal by todays standards.

Can I go back to the GFCI comment without starting another electrician flame war (which actually would be kind of cool to watch in real life)?

The 15/20 amp outlets in campgrounds often have GFCI outlets in them. I don't recall seeing GFCI on a 30 or 50 amp outlet, unless it's on the breaker upstream so I wouldn't see it. I thought I read somewhere there was an exception in the code for those.

I am NOT an electrician and not arguing; just looking for clarification.

SteveH · 04-11-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skater

Can I go back to the GFCI comment without starting another electrician flame war (which actually would be kind of cool to watch in real life)?

The 15/20 amp outlets in campgrounds often have GFCI outlets in them. I don't recall seeing GFCI on a 30 or 50 amp outlet, unless it's on the breaker upstream so I wouldn't see it. I thought I read somewhere there was an exception in the code for those.

I am NOT an electrician and not arguing; just looking for clarification.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I've never seen a 30, or 50 amp GFCI. So, I did a search on an electrical supplier's website, and could not find one that way either.

Maybe some of our Electrician friends can chime in with the facts on the question.

There was arguing??? I don't remember arguing, but I do remember trying to make a point, with a lot of difficulty.

JourneytoRet · 04-11-2013, 02:54 PM

good grief, I forgot what my question was!

JourneytoRet · 04-11-2013, 02:56 PM

oh yes, now I remember! so, i believe i have a 50A cable for the clipper. it has a gigantically thick cord but more importantly, i think, it has a male receptacle that has three blades, and a ground. the three blades are parallel and i think the 30amp plug has them angled, if that makes sense. so could Someone, not me, use that on the campground 220 and 120 and possible not pop the 220 all the time when Someone's wife is running the convection oven?

markdoane · 04-11-2013, 02:57 PM

GFCI in 30a 120v and 50a 120/240v are common. You can get them at Home Depot. Yes, they are breakers that install upstream.

SteveH · 04-11-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdoane

GFCI in 30a 120v and 50a 120/240v are common. You can get them at Home Depot. Yes, they are breakers that install upstream.

Are those GFCI circuit breakers, or outlets?

SteveH · 04-11-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JourneytoRet

oh yes, now I remember! so, i believe i have a 50A cable for the clipper. it has a gigantically thick cord but more importantly, i think, it has a male receptacle that has three blades, and a ground. the three blades are parallel and i think the 30amp plug has them angled, if that makes sense. so could Someone, not me, use that on the campground 220 and 120 and possible not pop the 220 all the time when Someone's wife is running the convection oven?

If you are using a 30 amp adapter, and trying to run the air conditioner and the microwave at the same time, you will be tripping circuit breakers.

JourneytoRet · 04-12-2013, 06:30 AM

ok, my question is, could Someone plug the "cheater", reference the amazon link in my original post about 1357 pages ago (no offense to the very entertaining posts thereafter!), which would be plugged into a 220, or 221 volt outlet AND the 120 or 121 volt (anyone see Mr. Mom?) non-GFCI outlet and then plug in Someone's 50A RV plug so Someone's Wife didn't blow any breaker when she was running the convection and a/c?

SteveH · 04-12-2013, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JourneytoRet

ok, my question is, could Someone plug the "cheater", reference the amazon link in my original post about 1357 pages ago (no offense to the very entertaining posts thereafter!), which would be plugged into a 220, or 221 volt outlet AND the 120 or 121 volt (anyone see Mr. Mom?) non-GFCI outlet and then plug in Someone's 50A RV plug so Someone's Wife didn't blow any breaker when she was running the convection and a/c?

To answer your question, no, or maybe.

The "cheater" in your link is designed to plug into a 120 volt, 30 amp outlet, and a 120 volt 20 amp outlet, and then adapt to a 50 amp plug. In this instance, it would give you more available power to your rig, but it would depend on which circuit the air conditioner and microwave were on, if it would eliminate the breaker tripping. Meaning, if the microwave was on one circuit, and the air conditioner on the other circuit, it would probably stop the circuit breaker from tripping.

But, if the two appliances were on the same circuit, or leg, the breaker will still trip.

Basically, the "cheater" will give you more power when 50 amp service is not available, but will it be enough?????

dznf0g · 04-12-2013, 06:40 AM

Assuming the adapter is wired correctly, and the campground is wired correctly, I believe so.

I cheat with my 30amp served AS by having a separate 12ga (IIRC) extension cord permanently installed through the shell of the AS and run to a spot under the dinette. When I am running higher loads, I plug into both the 30amp and the 15/20amp at the post and plug a heater, or dehumidifier, or toaster....etc. into the extension cord......so yes, I have found 45 - 50 amps available at the post at every campground I have used this way.

Is that the short answer to your long thread?

SteveH · 04-12-2013, 06:48 AM

The thing is, and this is not to further complicate the answer, with the cheater you are connecting two 120 volt legs into your RV. But, you don't know which leg in your RV will be connected to the 20, and which leg connected to the 30 amp leg.

Additionally, you don't know which of these legs your appliances are connected to.

I can tell you this, our trailer has a 50 amp service input. When we have a 50 amp service to plug into, we can operate the microwave and both A/C units at the same time without tripping any breakers.

But, when we have 30 amp service, we can only operate one A/C unit, or the microwave at any one time.

I have not tried a "cheater" cord, but I do use an "adapter" cord that ties both legs in the trailer to the one hot leg in a 30 amp service outlet.