Transmission fluid change ?

[wvabeer]

How many quarts and what type do y'all recommend?

[92landyacht]

Need more information. Are you pulling the transmission or is this just a pan drop and filter change? Complete flush and drain of cooler? Which trany do you have? 4L60 or 4L80?

Could range anywhere from 5 quarts to 11 quarts depending on the above.

As for type, just use any quality brand name ATF that's type Dexron/Mercon.The newest standard for Dexron is DEXRON® VI. It's completely backwards compatable all the way back to DEXRON® II.

[ROBERT CROSS]

X2

Plus if your just starting out with the rig....establish a base line.
Start by dropping the pan, replace the filter, then a complete power flush to replace ALL the fluid. Torque converter, cooler and lines.

If not equipped, a remote transmission temp gauge/filter would be a worthwhile add-on.

Bob

[wvabeer]

I don't know which tranny I have. I have been a Ford guy for my whole life so these Chevy/foreign trannies are greek to me so I need a little schooling. I am only doing a complete fluid change with filter. (92 chevy 454 auto p 30 chassis) Is there a drain plug on the torque converter?

[92landyacht]

You must drop the pan to get to the filter. No drain on the pan on most units and the only way to drain the torque converter is to pull the trany. You likely have a 4L60 or 4L80 transmission. Not sure which though. If you're only dropping the pan and replacing the filter, then you'll need about 5-8 quarts depending on the trany type.

To replace the filter you'll need to loosen ALL the screws and then pull enough screws out to tilt the pan in one direction to drain most of the fluid out one corner of the pan into a bucket. Getting the pan seal to break loose is sometimes a challenge. Don't bend the pan lip. Once you have most of the fluid out you can remove the remaining screws and drop the whole pan assembly straight to the ground. Have a replacement pan gasket and filter ready. You don't want to introduce any dirt or stir up the fluid in the bottom of the pan until it's removed from the trany. Clean the pan out good thoroughly and check the magnet in the pan for metal. Small shavings are normal but any big pieces indicates issues. Old fluid should look red with no burnt smell.

Once the new filter and pan is replaced you need to add back fluid. Fill the trany through the dipstick tube. You can start with 4 quarts and then start the engine. Run the trany through D and R a few times. Check the fluid level with the engine running. There should be a COLD and HOT indicator on the dipstick. Add to the cold level at first. Add additional fluid a little at a time until it's at the correct level. You may have to run the dipstick in and out a few times to clear the tube of fluid to get a good reading. Do not over fill. Each time you add fluid run the trany through D and R a few times. Once you think you're at the correct level you need to run the trany through all the gears. Check the fluid level again. Top up and repeat the drive through again as needed. You're done when the level is good and remains steady after being driven. Run the engine for a while. By then it should be between the COLD and HOT level.

I would recommend picking up a P30 GM chassis manual for the future.

[DaveFL]

If fluid is red and doesn't smell burnt, does it need changing. PO put on an external filter mounted in front of the radiator on mine. Never did see a schedule to do it routinely.
I changed the motor oil when I bought just to have a baseline of an oil change, with all the papers from PO the last 3 yrs of ownership was mostly sitting without miles added.

[wvabeer]

I was wondering, on my fords I just remove the supply line or warmest to the trans cooler and stick it in a large container ,start the engine and let it pump out.To save from the mess. Will it hurt the GM tranny?

[dznf0g]

Be aware that the last couple of Dexron iterations have a NORMAL brown color to them after they have been in service for a few thousand. A lot of people see this and think it is burnt. If someone has serviced it with Dexron V or IV (IIRC) you may see dark fluid that is normal. Still shouldn't smell any different than new though.

I'd use Dexron VI. It is a full synthetic and is markedly better than its predecessors.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by wvabeer

I was wondering, on my fords I just remove the supply line or warmest to the trans cooler and stick it in a large container ,start the engine and let it pump out.To save from the mess. Will it hurt the GM tranny?

No just do it one quart, (no more than 2) at a time so you don't suck air up through the filter. Doubt it would hurt anything in park anyway, but I think the more of a solid column of fluid you can maintain, the more of the old you can actually replace. JMHO

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

No just do it one quart, (no more than 2) at a time so you don't suck air up through the filter. Doubt it would hurt anything in park anyway, but I think the more of a solid column of fluid you can maintain, the more of the old you can actually replace. JMHO

I have used the starter to get as much fluid out of a tranny as possible.
15 seconds/time on a charger.

After installing the Tekonsha gauge/filter.

I was on a 3 year flush schedule, after an initial 15k internal filter change, pan drop at 60k for another filter. External trans filter changed at every LOF.

Question though....would you only change 1/2 your engine oil or antifreeze?

Bob

[wvabeer]

I would think if you started your engine and opened the trans line you would almost completely empty the trans and after you have it filled with new you would run about a quart out and then hook it back up and top it off. Would that not completely change it?

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by wvabeer

I would think if you started your engine and opened the trans line you would almost completely empty the trans and after you have it filled with new you would run about a quart out and then hook it back up and top it off. Would that not completely change it?

No, once the pump draws air, no more will come out of the torque converter and line.

Bob's way is convenient, if you have a filter.

I would: Drain the pan and change the filter...let it drip completely. This will get out 4 - 6 quarts maybe, depending on the trans.

Go up top and add the amount that came out of the pan. The fresh will all sit (ok, most of it) in the pan.

Crank, not start, truck and let about 1 - 2 quarts of fluid fill a container from the trans cooler RETURN line at the trans.

Stop cranking and refill sump.

Repeat until the near entire specified amount of OVERHAUL trans capacity is added in this manner.

Reattach line and check for leaks.

This gets MOST of the old fluid out. Some bypasses the torque converter and cooler and goes straight out of the pump to lubricate the shafts, provide hydraulic pressure for clutch applies and for valve body to do its hydraulic thing. So you'll never get every drop changed out, but this is about as good as it gets for the DIYer.

Did I miss anything Bob?

[ROBERT CROSS]

"Did I miss anything Bob?"

Nope....but I would expect nothing less.
You are much higher on the GM Totem than I was.

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

"Did I miss anything Bob?"

Nope....but I would expect nothing less.
You are much higher on the GM Totem than I was.

Bob

Yeah, I don't know about that!!!!! Seriously! And I don't think this process was ever in a service manual. It's driveway tribal methodology!
GM would've had a $25,000 machine as a required dealer tool for this.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Yeah, I don't know about that!!!!! Seriously! And I don't think this process was ever in a service manual. It's driveway tribal methodology!
GM would've had a $25,000 machine as a required dealer tool for this.

Rich,

The Flush Machine is not a required tool?
Are you saying that our crafty Dealer Principal was blowing smoke when we got ours.
"GM's killing us with all this added expense!" And you guys want a raise?

Bob

[dznf0g]

The only flusher we required is the trans cooler flusher, which was used AFTER a trans failure to thoroughly clean the metal trash out of the cooler and lines.

Not to be confused with a maintenance based trans (blood transfusion) fluid exchange/flusher. GM doesn't recommend any trans service until 100,000 miles now (with normal service usage....towing is not listed as severe duty; 2013 gas Silverado quoted). And that service is just change fluid and filter....partial drain and refil.

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.

[dznf0g]

Here's a pretty recent bulletin on the subject:


Service Information

2013 Chevrolet Silverado - 4WD | Cheyenne, Sierra, Silverado VIN C/K Service Manual 3087 | Document ID: 2913603
#04-06-01-029G: Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper Use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only) - (Sep 27, 2012)

Subject:Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only)

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks

Attention:This bulletin is applicable to U.S. dealers only. Dealers in Canada refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 12-06-01-008.

This bulletin is being revised to update information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-01-029F (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System). Service is Important to You and Your Customer


General Motors takes great pride in offering our dealerships and customers high quality vehicles that require extremely low maintenance over the life of the vehicle. This low cost of ownership builds repeat sales and offers our customers measurable economy of operation against competing vehicles. Our goal is to make the customer experience a key driver of why customers purchase GM products and services. Providing responsible services at the proper intervals supports this goal and will help your dealership earn repeat business.
An Overview of Proper Vehicle Service


Today, many of your service departments merchandise supplemental services and fluids to customers indicating that these “flushes” have a positive effect on durability of the component part. It should be noted that analyses of returned parts that have been exposed to these aftermarket “flushes” show indications of potential damage and shortened durability.
The following information clearly defines the guidelines for servicing GM vehicles.
GM Authorized Service Information is Detailed, Descriptive and Complete


If GM determines that a specific model vehicle or powertrain needs supplemental service, GM will issue an Authorized Service Document with detailed service procedures that will identify any machine, tool or chemical required to conduct proper vehicle servicing. Listed below are a few examples of those messages as well as additional guidelines:
Engine Crankcase Flushing


General Motors Corporation does not endorse or recommend engine crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the aftermarket materials used for crankcase flushing indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing IS NOT COVERED under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Subsystem Flushing


Flushing of air conditioning (A/C) lines, radiators, transmission coolers, and power steering systems are recognized practices to be performed after catastrophic failures or extreme corrosion when encountered in radiators. For acceptable A/C flushing concerns, refer to the Flushing procedure in Service Information (SI). This practice is not required or recommended for normal service operations.
The use of external transmission fluid exchange or flush machines is not recommended for the automatic or manual transmission. Use of external machines to replace the fluid may affect the operation or durability of the transmission. Transmission fluid should only be replaced by draining and refilling following procedures in Service Information (SI). Refer to Automatic/Manual Transmission Fluid and Filter Replacement.
Approved Transmission Flushing Tool (Transmission Cooler Only)


The Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flow Check and Flush Tool IS recommended for GM vehicles. Refer to Transmission Fluid Cooler Flow Check and Flush in the Service Information website using the J-45096.
Our Commitment to providing Quality Service to Our Customers


Customers will appreciate and trust dealerships that inform and offer them what they truly need for continued trouble-free operation of their GM vehicle. Examine your service department's practices and verify that all Service Advisors and Technicians focus on providing a truly exceptional service experience through vehicle inspections and offering appropriate products at time of service. Use this opportunity to leverage recent technology including the Service Workbench Menu and Inspection Tool Kit and review the services you provide to your customers. Here are a few suggestions:

• Review your processes to ensure that your service team performs a Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection on every vehicle visiting your service lane. Use the electronic Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection process in the Service Workbench to document vehicle needs and evaluate them for safety and wear items. This information can be quickly integrated into your marketing efforts and the Customer Sales and Service Retention (CSSR) program to personalize the message to your customers.

• Take the time required to align your dealership service practices with the GM Simplified Maintenance Schedule and use the Service Workbench Menu tool to ensure consistent pricing for each customer.

• Maintain your service expertise through GM Training and ASE Certification of your technicians.

• Finally, take advantage of the Certified Service initiatives that continue drive service customers to your dealership.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

The only flusher we required is the trans cooler flusher, which was used AFTER a trans failure to thoroughly clean the metal trash out of the cooler and lines.

Not to be confused with a maintenance based trans (blood transfusion) fluid exchange/flusher. GM doesn't recommend any trans service until 100,000 miles now (with normal service usage....towing is no listed as severe duty; 2013 gas Silverado quoted). And that service is just change fluid and filter....partial drain and refil.

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Here's a pretty recent bulletin on the subject:


Service Information

2013 Chevrolet Silverado - 4WD | Cheyenne, Sierra, Silverado VIN C/K Service Manual 3087 | Document ID: 2913603
#04-06-01-029G: Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper Use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only) - (Sep 27, 2012)

Subject:Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only)

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks

Attention:This bulletin is applicable to U.S. dealers only. Dealers in Canada refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 12-06-01-008.

This bulletin is being revised to update information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-01-029F (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System). Service is Important to You and Your Customer


General Motors takes great pride in offering our dealerships and customers high quality vehicles that require extremely low maintenance over the life of the vehicle. This low cost of ownership builds repeat sales and offers our customers measurable economy of operation against competing vehicles. Our goal is to make the customer experience a key driver of why customers purchase GM products and services. Providing responsible services at the proper intervals supports this goal and will help your dealership earn repeat business.
An Overview of Proper Vehicle Service


Today, many of your service departments merchandise supplemental services and fluids to customers indicating that these “flushes” have a positive effect on durability of the component part. It should be noted that analyses of returned parts that have been exposed to these aftermarket “flushes” show indications of potential damage and shortened durability.
The following information clearly defines the guidelines for servicing GM vehicles.
GM Authorized Service Information is Detailed, Descriptive and Complete


If GM determines that a specific model vehicle or powertrain needs supplemental service, GM will issue an Authorized Service Document with detailed service procedures that will identify any machine, tool or chemical required to conduct proper vehicle servicing. Listed below are a few examples of those messages as well as additional guidelines:
Engine Crankcase Flushing


General Motors Corporation does not endorse or recommend engine crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the aftermarket materials used for crankcase flushing indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing IS NOT COVERED under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Subsystem Flushing


Flushing of air conditioning (A/C) lines, radiators, transmission coolers, and power steering systems are recognized practices to be performed after catastrophic failures or extreme corrosion when encountered in radiators. For acceptable A/C flushing concerns, refer to the Flushing procedure in Service Information (SI). This practice is not required or recommended for normal service operations.
The use of external transmission fluid exchange or flush machines is not recommended for the automatic or manual transmission. Use of external machines to replace the fluid may affect the operation or durability of the transmission. Transmission fluid should only be replaced by draining and refilling following procedures in Service Information (SI). Refer to Automatic/Manual Transmission Fluid and Filter Replacement.
Approved Transmission Flushing Tool (Transmission Cooler Only)


The Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flow Check and Flush Tool IS recommended for GM vehicles. Refer to Transmission Fluid Cooler Flow Check and Flush in the Service Information website using the J-45096.
Our Commitment to providing Quality Service to Our Customers


Customers will appreciate and trust dealerships that inform and offer them what they truly need for continued trouble-free operation of their GM vehicle. Examine your service department's practices and verify that all Service Advisors and Technicians focus on providing a truly exceptional service experience through vehicle inspections and offering appropriate products at time of service. Use this opportunity to leverage recent technology including the Service Workbench Menu and Inspection Tool Kit and review the services you provide to your customers. Here are a few suggestions:

• Review your processes to ensure that your service team performs a Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection on every vehicle visiting your service lane. Use the electronic Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection process in the Service Workbench to document vehicle needs and evaluate them for safety and wear items. This information can be quickly integrated into your marketing efforts and the Customer Sales and Service Retention (CSSR) program to personalize the message to your customers.

• Take the time required to align your dealership service practices with the GM Simplified Maintenance Schedule and use the Service Workbench Menu tool to ensure consistent pricing for each customer.

• Maintain your service expertise through GM Training and ASE Certification of your technicians.

• Finally, take advantage of the Certified Service initiatives that continue drive service customers to your dealership.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

Thanks Rich,

I used to be "old school" also....now it's just old.

"once the pretty girls asked me how things are, now they ask me how things were."
Jesse Winchester

"Nothing But a Breeze"

Bob

[wvabeer]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.

So Dexron VI will work fine in my 92 model transmission. How many quarts do I need? I hate buying more than I need. I really don't need to ad to my collection of unused ATF quarts, I have a bunch of all of them but not one Dexron VI.
My E350 van required 13 of Mercon V for a complete flush.

[dznf0g]

I don't have access to service manuals that old. Sorry, if I had to guess, I'd say 14, but it has been a really long time since I had any dealings with the P-chassis.

EDIT: I found a couple forum post on other sites that say an 11 quart capacity....I thought it was more than that.