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Old 02-26-2013, 09:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Yeah, I don't know about that!!!!! Seriously! And I don't think this process was ever in a service manual. It's driveway tribal methodology!
GM would've had a $25,000 machine as a required dealer tool for this.
Rich,

The Flush Machine is not a required tool?
Are you saying that our crafty Dealer Principal was blowing smoke when we got ours.
"GM's killing us with all this added expense!" And you guys want a raise?

Bob
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:14 AM   #16
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The only flusher we required is the trans cooler flusher, which was used AFTER a trans failure to thoroughly clean the metal trash out of the cooler and lines.

Not to be confused with a maintenance based trans (blood transfusion) fluid exchange/flusher. GM doesn't recommend any trans service until 100,000 miles now (with normal service usage....towing is not listed as severe duty; 2013 gas Silverado quoted). And that service is just change fluid and filter....partial drain and refil.

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #17
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Here's a pretty recent bulletin on the subject:


Service Information

2013 Chevrolet Silverado - 4WD | Cheyenne, Sierra, Silverado VIN C/K Service Manual 3087 | Document ID: 2913603
#04-06-01-029G: Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper Use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only) - (Sep 27, 2012)

Subject:Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only)

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks

Attention:This bulletin is applicable to U.S. dealers only. Dealers in Canada refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 12-06-01-008.
This bulletin is being revised to update information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-01-029F (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System). Service is Important to You and Your Customer


General Motors takes great pride in offering our dealerships and customers high quality vehicles that require extremely low maintenance over the life of the vehicle. This low cost of ownership builds repeat sales and offers our customers measurable economy of operation against competing vehicles. Our goal is to make the customer experience a key driver of why customers purchase GM products and services. Providing responsible services at the proper intervals supports this goal and will help your dealership earn repeat business.
An Overview of Proper Vehicle Service


Today, many of your service departments merchandise supplemental services and fluids to customers indicating that these “flushes” have a positive effect on durability of the component part. It should be noted that analyses of returned parts that have been exposed to these aftermarket “flushes” show indications of potential damage and shortened durability.
The following information clearly defines the guidelines for servicing GM vehicles.
GM Authorized Service Information is Detailed, Descriptive and Complete


If GM determines that a specific model vehicle or powertrain needs supplemental service, GM will issue an Authorized Service Document with detailed service procedures that will identify any machine, tool or chemical required to conduct proper vehicle servicing. Listed below are a few examples of those messages as well as additional guidelines:
Engine Crankcase Flushing


General Motors Corporation does not endorse or recommend engine crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the aftermarket materials used for crankcase flushing indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing IS NOT COVERED under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Subsystem Flushing


Flushing of air conditioning (A/C) lines, radiators, transmission coolers, and power steering systems are recognized practices to be performed after catastrophic failures or extreme corrosion when encountered in radiators. For acceptable A/C flushing concerns, refer to the Flushing procedure in Service Information (SI). This practice is not required or recommended for normal service operations.
The use of external transmission fluid exchange or flush machines is not recommended for the automatic or manual transmission. Use of external machines to replace the fluid may affect the operation or durability of the transmission. Transmission fluid should only be replaced by draining and refilling following procedures in Service Information (SI). Refer to Automatic/Manual Transmission Fluid and Filter Replacement.
Approved Transmission Flushing Tool (Transmission Cooler Only)


The Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flow Check and Flush Tool IS recommended for GM vehicles. Refer to Transmission Fluid Cooler Flow Check and Flush in the Service Information website using the J-45096.
Our Commitment to providing Quality Service to Our Customers


Customers will appreciate and trust dealerships that inform and offer them what they truly need for continued trouble-free operation of their GM vehicle. Examine your service department's practices and verify that all Service Advisors and Technicians focus on providing a truly exceptional service experience through vehicle inspections and offering appropriate products at time of service. Use this opportunity to leverage recent technology including the Service Workbench Menu and Inspection Tool Kit and review the services you provide to your customers. Here are a few suggestions:
Review your processes to ensure that your service team performs a Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection on every vehicle visiting your service lane. Use the electronic Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection process in the Service Workbench to document vehicle needs and evaluate them for safety and wear items. This information can be quickly integrated into your marketing efforts and the Customer Sales and Service Retention (CSSR) program to personalize the message to your customers.

Take the time required to align your dealership service practices with the GM Simplified Maintenance Schedule and use the Service Workbench Menu tool to ensure consistent pricing for each customer.

Maintain your service expertise through GM Training and ASE Certification of your technicians.

Finally, take advantage of the Certified Service initiatives that continue drive service customers to your dealership.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:42 AM   #18
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
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2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
The only flusher we required is the trans cooler flusher, which was used AFTER a trans failure to thoroughly clean the metal trash out of the cooler and lines.

Not to be confused with a maintenance based trans (blood transfusion) fluid exchange/flusher. GM doesn't recommend any trans service until 100,000 miles now (with normal service usage....towing is no listed as severe duty; 2013 gas Silverado quoted). And that service is just change fluid and filter....partial drain and refil.

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Here's a pretty recent bulletin on the subject:


Service Information

2013 Chevrolet Silverado - 4WD | Cheyenne, Sierra, Silverado VIN C/K Service Manual 3087 | Document ID: 2913603
#04-06-01-029G: Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper Use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only) - (Sep 27, 2012)

Subject:Unscheduled Supplemental Services (Including Flushing Services and Additives) and Proper use of GM Simplified Maintenance Schedules (U.S. Only)

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks

Attention:This bulletin is applicable to U.S. dealers only. Dealers in Canada refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 12-06-01-008.
This bulletin is being revised to update information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-01-029F (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System). Service is Important to You and Your Customer


General Motors takes great pride in offering our dealerships and customers high quality vehicles that require extremely low maintenance over the life of the vehicle. This low cost of ownership builds repeat sales and offers our customers measurable economy of operation against competing vehicles. Our goal is to make the customer experience a key driver of why customers purchase GM products and services. Providing responsible services at the proper intervals supports this goal and will help your dealership earn repeat business.
An Overview of Proper Vehicle Service


Today, many of your service departments merchandise supplemental services and fluids to customers indicating that these “flushes” have a positive effect on durability of the component part. It should be noted that analyses of returned parts that have been exposed to these aftermarket “flushes” show indications of potential damage and shortened durability.
The following information clearly defines the guidelines for servicing GM vehicles.
GM Authorized Service Information is Detailed, Descriptive and Complete


If GM determines that a specific model vehicle or powertrain needs supplemental service, GM will issue an Authorized Service Document with detailed service procedures that will identify any machine, tool or chemical required to conduct proper vehicle servicing. Listed below are a few examples of those messages as well as additional guidelines:
Engine Crankcase Flushing


General Motors Corporation does not endorse or recommend engine crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the aftermarket materials used for crankcase flushing indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing IS NOT COVERED under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Subsystem Flushing


Flushing of air conditioning (A/C) lines, radiators, transmission coolers, and power steering systems are recognized practices to be performed after catastrophic failures or extreme corrosion when encountered in radiators. For acceptable A/C flushing concerns, refer to the Flushing procedure in Service Information (SI). This practice is not required or recommended for normal service operations.
The use of external transmission fluid exchange or flush machines is not recommended for the automatic or manual transmission. Use of external machines to replace the fluid may affect the operation or durability of the transmission. Transmission fluid should only be replaced by draining and refilling following procedures in Service Information (SI). Refer to Automatic/Manual Transmission Fluid and Filter Replacement.
Approved Transmission Flushing Tool (Transmission Cooler Only)


The Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flow Check and Flush Tool IS recommended for GM vehicles. Refer to Transmission Fluid Cooler Flow Check and Flush in the Service Information website using the J-45096.
Our Commitment to providing Quality Service to Our Customers


Customers will appreciate and trust dealerships that inform and offer them what they truly need for continued trouble-free operation of their GM vehicle. Examine your service department's practices and verify that all Service Advisors and Technicians focus on providing a truly exceptional service experience through vehicle inspections and offering appropriate products at time of service. Use this opportunity to leverage recent technology including the Service Workbench Menu and Inspection Tool Kit and review the services you provide to your customers. Here are a few suggestions:
Review your processes to ensure that your service team performs a Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection on every vehicle visiting your service lane. Use the electronic Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection process in the Service Workbench to document vehicle needs and evaluate them for safety and wear items. This information can be quickly integrated into your marketing efforts and the Customer Sales and Service Retention (CSSR) program to personalize the message to your customers.

Take the time required to align your dealership service practices with the GM Simplified Maintenance Schedule and use the Service Workbench Menu tool to ensure consistent pricing for each customer.

Maintain your service expertise through GM Training and ASE Certification of your technicians.

Finally, take advantage of the Certified Service initiatives that continue drive service customers to your dealership.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

Thanks Rich,

I used to be "old school" also....now it's just old.

"once the pretty girls asked me how things are, now they ask me how things were."
Jesse Winchester "Nothing But a Breeze"


Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post

I KNOW Dexron VI is really good stuff....but I'm just a little too old school for that with my TV.
So Dexron VI will work fine in my 92 model transmission. How many quarts do I need? I hate buying more than I need. I really don't need to ad to my collection of unused ATF quarts, I have a bunch of all of them but not one Dexron VI.
My E350 van required 13 of Mercon V for a complete flush.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:30 PM   #20
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I don't have access to service manuals that old. Sorry, if I had to guess, I'd say 14, but it has been a really long time since I had any dealings with the P-chassis.

EDIT: I found a couple forum post on other sites that say an 11 quart capacity....I thought it was more than that.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:46 PM   #21
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I do have access to a 1998 (the oldest I can go) P32 chassis manual. It says 13.5 quarts for a 4L80E.

Fluid Capacity Specifications (Overhaul)


Application Specification Metric English


Oil Pan Removal 7.3 liters 7.7 quarts


Overhaul 12.8 liters 13.5 quarts
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:48 PM   #22
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Thanks very much Y'all
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:44 PM   #23
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At least I can change it. On my 2007 mustang, there is no dipstick, you pretty much have to do the ford machine thing.
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