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12-17-2018, 06:52 AM
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#61
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,534
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So now I am curious. Bella does not have weep hole covers, just circular weep holes on the cockpit window. However I have found that the diameter of the hole is marginally too small (at around 3/16") and I have seen that the surface tension of water across the hole can actually result in water backing up behind the hole, until there is enough (head) pressure to overcome the surface tension when it starts to drip out. Of course this is worse if there is any 'growth' in or around the holes. I had assumed the weep hole covers just stopped debris collecting and backing up the water but if there is a mesh wont that make the situation worse?
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12-17-2018, 07:43 AM
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#62
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Rivet Master
Churubusco
, Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
So now I am curious. Bella does not have weep hole covers, just circular weep holes on the cockpit window. However I have found that the diameter of the hole is marginally too small (at around 3/16") and I have seen that the surface tension of water across the hole can actually result in water backing up behind the hole, until there is enough (head) pressure to overcome the surface tension when it starts to drip out. Of course this is worse if there is any 'growth' in or around the holes. I had assumed the weep hole covers just stopped debris collecting and backing up the water but if there is a mesh wont that make the situation worse?
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It's possible the capillary action of the mesh or cover can draw the water out of the hole and get it to a geometry where it can drip or weep down the side, I wouldn't necessarily say it's guaranteed to make it worse, and if properly designed it could make it better
In your case, maybe filling a tiny sharp cornered score on the outside (vertical) surface at the bottom of the hole would help break the surface tension and let the water run down the outside?
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12-17-2018, 08:11 AM
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#63
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
So now I am curious. Bella does not have weep hole covers, just circular weep holes on the cockpit window. However I have found that the diameter of the hole is marginally too small (at around 3/16") and I have seen that the surface tension of water across the hole can actually result in water backing up behind the hole, until there is enough (head) pressure to overcome the surface tension when it starts to drip out. Of course this is worse if there is any 'growth' in or around the holes. I had assumed the weep hole covers just stopped debris collecting and backing up the water but if there is a mesh wont that make the situation worse?
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My cab covers did not have mesh, they were hollow with no method of stopping mud wasp nests. I put a grill on the ones I made.
The original covers used a clip on the outer edges of the cover. They break off very easy.
The first photo in my last post shows the barbed post method I used for mounting. With the post inside the weep hole, it may allow water to wick out better, but I did not plan any research on the topic.
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-17-2018, 08:40 AM
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#64
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet18
It's possible the capillary action of the mesh or cover can draw the water out of the hole and get it to a geometry where it can drip or weep down the side, I wouldn't necessarily say it's guaranteed to make it worse, and if properly designed it could make it better
In your case, maybe filling a tiny sharp cornered score on the outside (vertical) surface at the bottom of the hole would help break the surface tension and let the water run down the outside?
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I will look into that a some more. The weather in the UK is quite similar to Portland in some much as it is always a) raining or b) about to rain, so having something growing anywhere water gets held up (like gutters, window seals, etc) is 100% likely and so I often have to clean out the weep holes with an old school pipe cleaner. It does not take much for water to accumulate in the channel and end up inside.
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12-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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#65
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
My cab covers did not have mesh, they were hollow with no method of stopping mud wasp nests. I put a grill on the ones I made.
The original covers used a clip on the outer edges of the cover. They break off very easy.
The first photo in my last post shows the barbed post method I used for mounting. With the post inside the weep hole, it may allow water to wick out better, but I did not plan any research on the topic.
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It will be interesting to see how they work out in use.
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12-17-2018, 10:15 AM
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#66
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
It will be interesting to see how they work out in use.
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If nothing else the fact that they can be printed now means it will be easy to obtain replacements.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-17-2018, 10:30 AM
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#67
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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When I have a good working model, I will put the stl code online so anyone can print them. If there is a compatible cad format, I can post that also so if anyone wants to make modifications, it will hopefully easier than starting from scratch.
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-22-2018, 01:21 AM
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#68
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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I have been taking a break from the weep hole covers to do Xmas prints. With that done, I am looking into the best material for the covers longevity in the weather.
Even though PLA gives the best visual result, researching it shows that it is lousy as outdoor material. The PET and PC may have worked OK, their print quality is lousy.
There is some data that ABS will do OK, I am going to order a roll of ASA filament, it is suppose to be much better on fade resistance and temperature stability.
I found this brand https://fillamentum.com/collections/...-metallic-grey
It is a bit pricey at $34 for a .75Kg spool and the color may be a bit dark for the rear covers and too light for the front, but it is good enough for a test.
Anybody have any thoughts on the Airstream logo on the covers? I can make a print file for them with or without the logo.
Heck, if I had ambition, I could put darn near anything for text on the covers, it does take an hour or so to format the letters, fit them to the curve and then add them to the 3d cover model.
I wish there was a automated way so you could have your covers monogrammed on request
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-22-2018, 05:59 AM
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#69
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
I have been taking a break from the weep hole covers to do Xmas prints. With that done, I am looking into the best material for the covers longevity in the weather.
Even though PLA gives the best visual result, researching it shows that it is lousy as outdoor material. The PET and PC may have worked OK, their print quality is lousy.
There is some data that ABS will do OK, I am going to order a roll of ASA filament, it is suppose to be much better on fade resistance and temperature stability.
I found this brand https://fillamentum.com/collections/...-metallic-grey
It is a bit pricey at $34 for a .75Kg spool and the color may be a bit dark for the rear covers and too light for the front, but it is good enough for a test.
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With the ASA being made from ABS are planning on printing indoors or some more open area?
Quote:
Anybody have any thoughts on the Airstream logo on the covers? I can make a print file for them with or without the logo.
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Personally I think having the Airstream logo is kinda cool.
Quote:
Heck, if I had ambition, I could put darn near anything for text on the covers, it does take an hour or so to format the letters, fit them to the curve and then add them to the 3d cover model.
I wish there was a automated way so you could have your covers monogrammed on request
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Years ago I used to automate the drawing process using LISP in Autocad. I would think some automation of the drawing process would be feasible, you just have to find the right tool.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-22-2018, 10:58 AM
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#70
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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I found a 5' tall wheeled cabinet that NY State had on sale on eBay (Their surplus warehouse is near my work)
I got it for $11 and it will hold the printer and more.
I can leave the back ventilated and run a fan and duct on the top if needed, or maybe just a charcoal filter?
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-22-2018, 11:23 AM
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#71
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van guru
1994 28' Excella
Hood River
, Oregon
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
When I have a good working model, I will put the stl code online so anyone can print them. If there is a compatible cad format, I can post that also so if anyone wants to make modifications, it will hopefully easier than starting from scratch.
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STEP or IGES files are common neutral formats for 3D geometry. You can upload your STL file to Shapeways.com and then folks can purchase the 3D printed parts there. Make sure your chord height is set small (high triangle count) so the parts look good when run on printers with higher resolution than your own.
You might take a look at a parametric 3D modeling tool with built in 3D editable text.
All the best,
Hein
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12-22-2018, 12:10 PM
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#72
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1 Rivet Member
1976 25' Tradewind
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
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Hi, I’m a product designer and have extensive CAD experience and the necessary software as well as 3D printers. Let me know if I can help supplement your work in any way. I’m new to airstreams and not even sure if these would fit on mine (76 Tradewind) but would be happy to help the effort.
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12-22-2018, 01:38 PM
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#73
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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The more the merrier. I use a cheap cad program that we used at work DesignCad
I bought the latest version DesignCad 3D Max 2018 and it has OK 3D capabilities. It can export to Autocad DWG and other formats.
https://www.turbocad.com/designcad/d...-max-2018.html
I just dont know how accurate an input it will do.
I usually import the stl into meshmixer to clean up the mesh before converting it to gcode
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-26-2018, 05:10 AM
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#74
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
Naw, using PLA for now. It makes a more accurate print with less strings. I will go back to PETG once I debug the parts in PLA.
I was going to put these images on my server, but it is down, so I am uploading them.
1) Cab cover in black PLA
2) Cad of rear cover with AS name
3) Rear cover with AS name in grey PLA
4) Rear cover again in grey PLA
Note that even in PLA getting perfect detail is not yet accomplished.
i used .15mm layers, I may try with .10 layers.
The top of the Airstream name needs some work, because the layers started to wander
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Wayne, my Prusa is assembled and working now. The first attempts at printing didn't work so well mainly due to bed adhesion problems and not getting the first layer squished correctly. The Nefertiti bust was a bust and my first attempts at the Prusa logo didn't stick. However after some tweaks I've successfully printed the gears and hub, the Prusa logo and the triceratops skull.
I then tried several times to print one of the weep hole covers from the files you supplied but I had to stop each time after the first few layers due to poor adhesion. I am little bit baffled on how it's printing them. The print starts with a small oval about 1-1/4" long and about 3/8" wide with a couple of small 1/8" diameter dots inside. It's almost as if it was trying to print the cover upside down with the stems against the bed. I'll try again tonight and if it does the same thing I'll post a picture.
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-26-2018, 06:31 AM
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#75
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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If you are using the STL files I generated, then they will have to be rotated because the cad program has a different XYZ orientation. You can rotate the model in slic3r (usually x 90 deg will do it)
Let me know what filament you are using and I will post the gcode for that. Also which version of cover are you printing?
As for adhesion, I am using the PEI coated sheet, not the textured sheet.
For me, a wipe down with 91% isopropyl before and after the print does the job. I have found some filaments have adhesion problems no matter what. PRUSA orange PET was giving me problems.
Here is a link to surface prep:
https://help.prusa3d.com/article/6Gt...ce-preparation
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-26-2018, 07:20 AM
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#76
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
If you are using the STL files I generated, then they will have to be rotated because the cad program has a different XYZ orientation. You can rotate the model in slic3r (usually x 90 deg will do it)
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That would explain a lot!
Quote:
Let me know what filament you are using and I will post the gcode for that. Also which version of cover are you printing?
As for adhesion, I am using the PEI coated sheet, not the textured sheet.
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I'm currently playing with PLA, figured it would be the easiest to learn in. I have the PEI sheet as well. I had to make a trip to the local 24 hour gas station yeserday to buy a bottle of Isopropyl alcohol to clean the bed with since I didn't have any at home!
Quote:
For me, a wipe down with 91% isopropyl before and after the print does the job. I have found some filaments have adhesion problems no matter what. PRUSA orange PET was giving me problems.
Here is a link to surface prep:
https://help.prusa3d.com/article/6Gt...ce-preparation
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Once I got the Isopropyl alcohol the adhesion problems for the most part disappeared. The only PLA I have right now is the gray/silver that was supplied with the printer. I have black PETG that I will be using to make the gears that I need.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-26-2018, 08:12 AM
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#77
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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You can look on the bottom of this page to get the various gcode and other files:
http://theouterlimits.ws/projects/3d...eepHoleCovers/
The Autocad DWG conversion is there for the rear cover.
Edit to add: You may have to right click the gcode link and do a "save link as" otherwise you will get the file as text in the browser window.
I do not have them all up there and the ones that are may still need work, but are there to play with.
The cab cover gcode in PLA is here:
http://theouterlimits.ws/projects/3d..._PLA_MK3.gcode
The rear cover gcode in PLA is here:
http://theouterlimits.ws/projects/3d..._PLA_MK3.gcode
Note that I move the models around on the plate in the gcode to avoid overusing one spot on the build plate. I have already worn out one section of the plate. I think the harder plastics like PET & PC cause the damage because they stick too well.
Also, be sure your printer firmware is up to date, otherwise the Gcode may cause problems for you.
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
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12-27-2018, 07:36 AM
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#78
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
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Thanks for the links. I'll try downloading and printing them this weekend.
Quote:
Note that I move the models around on the plate in the gcode to avoid overusing one spot on the build plate. I have already worn out one section of the plate. I think the harder plastics like PET & PC cause the damage because they stick too well.
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I didn't realize you would need to do something like this but it makes sense. I also didn't realize PETG stuck so well, I had thought it was just the opposite.
Quote:
Also, be sure your printer firmware is up to date, otherwise the Gcode may cause problems for you.
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I updated the firmware on mine Tuesday night to 3.5.1. The prints are coming out pretty darn good now. Here's a sample of the type of gears that I plan on making in PETG. This one is in PLA and it meshes perfectly with the smaller steel gear.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-28-2018, 12:11 PM
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#79
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Now we're getting somewhere
PLA, ran the first time. I'm going to switch to PETG tomorrow and will post pictures.
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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12-28-2018, 12:58 PM
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#80
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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Looks good! Actually looks better than some of my tries!
I did put up the autocad dwg file for the cab covers on the website today. I am not sure how easy it will be to understand my methods in the cad layers, but anyone is welcome to play with the files and improve on them
I got in my ASA filament yesterday but I dont have time to try it out, prepping for another run to Boston on Sunday
__________________
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You will never get out of it alive.
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