Motorhome Advice?

[Roadrunner]

Well I am looking at a "83" Model 310 with 454 Chevy engine. It appears to be in fairly good shape but hasn't been inspected and routinely used for over 3 years. The spedo doesn't work and it is on it's second engine. Having restored two trailers, I have no concern about working on the "Airstream" portion of this motorhome but I'm not comfortable diving into the engine. I'm looking for some sage wisdom from our MOHO friends. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Bob

[crazeevw]

WOW! Tons of questions that I have, as well, I'm sure every other AS Motorhome owner would want to ask of you.
Without a working speedometer, it's going to be tough to get a good idea of engine condition.
Just remember one thing, the 454 is a solid engine, but like all engines, it's only as good as it's been maintained.
1st thing I'd do is get a compression test on all 8 cylinders. If there's a BIG variance between the cylinders, ummm, my best advice would be to walk away, or start haggling over asking price in the amount of what a replacement engine would cost.
2nd would be pull the engine oil dipstick. Milky looking? Clean, like oil has been recently changed? If older, I used to know of a place where you could send a 'sample' of engine oil, and by the metals found in the oil, could tell you based on the types of metals found in the engine oil if the bottom end of engine is in good condition.
3rd would be to pull transmission dipstick, look at tranny fluid. Nice and pink? Or is is a golden brown and smells like it's 'burned'.
4th, get under motorhome. Look at drivetrain components. Not too familiar with the setup for driveshaft for 310, start engine, putting transmission selector in Reverse, and back to Drive a few times, listening for the 'clank' that comes along with a bad U-joint.
5th, get back to the differential. Pull the drain plug. Check fluid level there, with no idea of mileage, hopefully, the fluid is good and clean, or at least recently changed.
6th, get a good look at suspension airbags at all corners. If rig has hydraulic levelers, check operation.
7th, check generator operation. Does it start, how many hours?
8th, get a GOOD look at the window channels. Being 28 years old, I bet they're gonna need replacing.
9th, and last suggestion from me. Go find the DOT markings on the tires. The last 4 digits will be the week and year tires were manufactured. Lots of debate on how long to use tires, how much mileage, tire condition etc. Everyone has their own opinion. But, looking at the last 4 digits of the DOT, say the tire has 3307 as the last 4 digits of DOT. 33 means the tires were manufactured the 33rd week of the year, and 07 means 2007. Tires are NOT cheap for motorhome. I'm looking at well over $2400 to replace all 9 of mine, which I WILL do, as all tires are at least 9 years old, with my tag axle having 11 year old tires.
More to look out for, but it's basically back to the 'Airstream' part. The Airstream motorhomes were built on a Chevy P30 motorhome chassis. Parts available, and just about all of them available at a decent cost factor.
One thing I've learned from reading this forum. When you call for parts, just say Chevy P30 chassis. Minute you mention P30 motorhome chassis, parts prices seem to go up......
If you can, look through the forum for members in your area. There may be a motorhome owner willing to help you look over the Airstream.

[Keyair]

Wow Derek....
LOL, and now you see how a year down the road, I learned a little bit!

I just went out for a Beer or 3 and look what happened...
I did warn you Bob! ROFL!

[Mike Leary]

Besides what Crazee said, a good sense of humor is a must when working on these old dears. Here's my reaction (on the right) after my mechanic told me what a complete brake job, including bearings, was going to cost.

[Keyair]

Roadrunner...
As you "Speak Airstream" already let me just try to hit the motorhome button.
My learning curve is still feels vertical, 18 months in!

Lets start with the bodywork, and lets cover what is different...

The Banana wraps between the bumpers and body front and rear are ABS and very brittle with age... Inland RV has replacements in Fiberglass, but they are not cheap, so inspect them. Bumpers are available.

Cockpit area... Winshield will set you back about $2000/$2500 for both glasses and seals. The word is if you have one side done, there is a good chance you will break the other side...
The forward fixed side window are made of Unobtainium....
The side glass sliders have seals that leak, and factor about $100 for replacements.
I hear the curved section of the rear bedroom windows is also NLA.

The same as trailers, Sewer vents, A/C units and seams are favorites for leaks so check your floors for rot, soft spots and stains.

Check the condition and age of the furnaces, and water heater...
If the water heater has "Motor Assist" check the coolant lines from it to the Engine... and check if you have the "Auxilary Heater" under the couch, as that has coolant lines, and a heater Core that rots too.

Oh, not sure of the 310 layout, but check the Freshwater tank, and pipes... and smell for Gasoline smell inside the rear... on mine its under the bed..signifies old gas filler pipes that need replacing.

Check the function of the Info center... tank and lpg levels, and battery condition.

Speedometers fail, and that could be a cable, but if not you can have it repaired at any good repair place I hear... my gut feeling is that if the whole speedo failed, I bet the milage is pretty close to what it says... a failed Odometer is a different matter.
Check the function of all the gauges, and make sure they all work as you would expect... Another common failure is the low Coolant/washer lights..
Check that all of the dash switches, power seats, interior, compartment/docking lights work etc... there are a lot!
Rear view Camera?

Moving outside, check the batteries, and their condition...should be 1 chassis battery and 2 Coach batteries.
Check the floor of the battery compartment for holes/rot... common failure!
Check all of the exterior storage drawers for leaks and rot!


With a genset onboard, you have other stuff to check, as Derek already covered, so check for function, Output, mufflers, fuel lines, oil leaks, and my favorite... Compartment insulation disintigration!
Check to see if the genset starts and is able to run the A/C units etc.

Moving on to Chassis and running gear..

The 454/TH475 a tough rugged combo, but worked hard to pull the M/H.
How many miles are recorded?
I suggest you take a friend with you or hire a Mechanic that is familiar with the 454.

I would want to see a service history, and a stack of bills... but failing that, look closely and smell all fluids... If the motor has been sitting it is not unusual for the oil to smell of gas...
Look close at Coolant color, and inspect the radiator and all hoses for age and leaks... dont forget the front heater hoses and core.

Pull off the dog house.
I would want to hear it start from cold... listen for noises, and if possible get a compression and or leakdown test done..
Note Oil pressure from cold, and when hot... Coolant temperature too.
Look at the Engine fan... is it spinning correctly and moving air?
Check for oil and coolant leaks, exhaust manfold leaks and muffler integrety.
has any emissions equipment been removed?
Not critcal if you have no smog test, but was it done properly?

If the Banks Power kit is fitted... You scored!

More to come, but that will get you started on a checklist!

[Roadrunner]

Great advice! Thanks! This certainly requires more diligent inspection than I'm typically used to. Out of curiosity, what would an engine replacement run for a 454 ? Good suggestion about having a mechanic along. And I would guess that there is a reason it hasn't been inspected for 3 years. Much more investigation warranted!

Bob

[crazeevw]

A Chevy 454 short block can vary in price. Basic short block can start as low as $2000.00. Rebuilt, from a junker, hi-performance, all variances that will reflect in price. You could go to Summit Racing and spend lots more.
All depends on how deep your pockets are......

[idroba]

Having owned both an Argosy 24' motorhome and an Airstream 310 motorhome, and having traveled extensively with a friend who had a 28' AS motorhome, all the advice given above, in detail, is excellent. The posters have listed most of the trouble areas (I didn't see anything on the rear air suspension though) and are dead on correct in their comments.

Any motorhome, Airstream included, is a much more expensive and difficult vehicle to maintain than a trailer. Although I never had many problems with my motorhomes, when I did the issue of finding someone capable to work on them was always a pain. Parts for older units is another issue. I went back to trailers and TV's that can be replaced in total, when they get technically out of date. It is also much easier to take a TV to a shop for repair, than a motorhome, and usually much lest costly.

An Airstream motorhome is a beautiful sight to behold, but you can bet the owner has spent a bit to keep it that way. Just the nature of the beast.

[Keyair]

Hi Bob,
The motor is not that expensive... unless you get into 502's etc...
Mine has a Jasper remanufactored motor, and they have a good reputation I hear. I can tell you it pulls like a train.

I think its a good idea to have plenty of "what if's" in mind.

As Derek said, tires are a big expense, altho without a Tag axle, you are getting away a little cheaper! If you budget for $300 per tire, you should be close. I personally would put "Traction" tires on the Dually axle if you plan to do any winter traveling. They will also help you off wet grass or mud! The stock size is 8R 19.5, but many of us have swapped over to 225/70 R19.5, which is a little smaller but wider, and supposedly have better handling and grip. There has been talk of them being too wide for the dually axle, but some of the members(Robfike is one) are using them without issues.

[dadstoy]

Sounds very daunting!

Most of my advice is to do the typical that you should already know about from owning and driving a car. One thing we all seem to be guilty of (and that includes me!) is to do too much or go too far with our fixes. The problem with that is you will never get out on the road and enjoy the MH. For example, I've spent unnecessary time polishing my silly front bumper when that time was really needed in replacing my fan clutch for my Yosemite trip starting on Sunday! Is it a money pit? Yes, but you can do things over time. My '82 280 was owned by my mom and dad for about twenty years until they passed and it has been mine for the last four years. I now know why when I was wrapping up the estate, my brother told me "you don't want that thing, trust me!".

My dad took very good care of the MH over the years and they did many trips in it including many long distance trips. I have had the opportunity over the last six months to sort of do everything I wanted to do all at once, but this certainly was not mandatory. I have spent about $16K so far and that is with me doing all the labor, but again it wasn't all necessary to get the MH on the road.

I have learned that there is a difference between doing something perfect and doing it right. We tend to want to do things perfect. There have been times in the past that I questioned why my dad did what he did. The plain answer is to get the MH on the road and enjoy it. Do what you need to do to maintain the rig and make it safe. Depending on time and BUDGET, the perfect can come along later.

This last summer I was heading out on a month long trip with my truck and ATV trailer. I had it up north and was underneath starting to do all kinds of work on it. Next to me was a retired Ford mechanic. He asked me what I was doing. I said the check engine light comes on when I go over the mountain passes. He shook his head and said they RARELY ever needed to replace the O2 sensors and all you need to do was replace the fuel filter. Well, he was right. The two main problems you will experience with your MH engine are plug wires and fuel delivery (from the filter through the carb). Replace the main filter back on the frame rail and the one in the Q-Jet. If you have any other filters, remove them. Now for that piece of crap Q-Jet, replace it with the SAME, but with one rebuilt by a company that REALLY knows what they are doing with Q-Jets. Don't try to rebuild it yourself...you want the MH on the road right? If it was a Holley, I would say rebuild it yourself. A couple of problems with Q-Jets among many others, is they are made out of pot metal and eventually leak gas where plugs have been installed In the carb body. Also the throttle shaft wears out and it will leak air. Problem with plug wires is they get burned up by the heat produced by both stock exhaust manifolds and headers. Don't waste your money on the most expensive wire set you can find but don't get a cheap set either. One other thing I want to mention is the alternator. You will eventually be replacing it because it will burn out. This is due to too much amperage draw from it. Don't replace now if it is working, but reduce your 12 volt power consumption if you can. When it needs to be replaced, replace with a higher amperage unit or you will just burn out the new one as well.

The 454 is a great engine. If the oil has been changed on schedule and it has not been "overheated", it should last you a long time. Mine has 130k miles on it and 150 psi compression in all cylinders. It leaks some oil, but what the heck! The 454 runs at what some consider hot. They can run up to 220 degrees. They overheat when they boil over. Don't waste money on trying to improve your gas mileage. It is what it is. My dad put a Banks system on mine a long time ago. I doubt he ever recouped the cost...he should have spent that money on my mother instead!

Check all the vacuum hoses on the engine. With its age, many are probably cracked or have fallen off. This can affect your smog emissions as well.

Speaking of smog...I STRONGLY suggest that you leave your smog equipment on! Someday you will resell your Airstream or pass it down to your children. Buyers come from all over and may want to take the MH back to a state that requires the smog equipment. Believe me, you will not see much of a difference in mileage or performance with working smog equipment or without. I brought my MH into Calif from Oregon. It is a federal model so no cats and no evap. My dad took the air pump off and it is costly to replace which I had to do. If you have the pump, make such the pump is not burned out (from bad check values), same goes for the relief valve (which for some reason is very expensive) and for the check valves. Make sure those check valves are good, you will just burn out your pump in short order from exhaust if they are not. So please, please, please, leave the smog equipment on

Personally, I wouldn't even consider dropping the gas tank unless you have actual evidence of gas leaks and/or rust in the tank.

Not only check your brakes, but check not just that the master cylinder has fluid, but the condition of the master cylinder. When I brought the MH to calif from my dad's house in Eugene OR, four years ago, I check that I had fluid. All looked good and the brakes were strong. The MH has sat a lot since then until recently now that it is smogged, registered and I'm taking it on trips. The brakes seem to be very solid as well. But one day I decided to see if there was any fluid in the master cylinder...expecting all to be well of course. Not only did I find about a quarter inch of fluid only but the master cylinder had a quarter inch of gunk in the bottom of it. That is what sitting will do...see attached photo. MH would not have made it down the mountain a couple months later when I took it in the get it smogged.

Absolutely replace the tires and the SHOCKS! Your shocks are shot I would bet after all these years. Replace steering stabilizer as well. I just installed a SteerSafe and I can't wait to see how it performs come Monday. Make sure the rear airbags and air system are working. You would be amazed at the difference in handling and the ride with this system working. The same goes for the front air bags. I was completely amazed recently when I changed mine. There is a lot of talk about replacing the front air bags with heavier springs. In fact I was ready to do the same. I thought the lower A arms had to be dropped to replace the bags so same amount of labor. Wrong! The air bags are installed through the holes in the lower A arm. It was a chore, but I got it done. My deciding factor in replacing the front air bags instead of replacing the springs, was the savings in just the bags, paid for my new roof air conditioner! Or it paid for the DMV fines I had to pay for not registering the MH for 3 years!

Well I'm exhausted and I'm sure you are too from reading all this. Have fun! I'll be heading down I5 to highway 120 and into Yosemite Valley with my shiny bumper starting Monday!

[woodja]

Well Roadrunner, how's that for a check list. That's a lot of good info but I'm almost glad I didn't read that before I bought our MoHo. I would have been a liittle apprehensive of all the things that need to be done.
We bought our '82' 310 a year ago last August w/68000 miles in southern Louisiana. I must be the luckiest guy in the village because not only did I have buyers remorse for several weeks but I made the 750 mi trip home without a problem & my experience this past year has been more than great
& totally satisfying. I've serviced the engine & transmission (& polished the bumpers) but my air bags on all 4 corners seem to be fine, I hardly ever hear the pump cycle. We did replace the old gas (& filters). Our Onan is propane which I didn't like at 1st but have learned to love. Starts easily & because of our huge tank isn't likely to run out. But of course we never use it much.
I just couldn't be happier with our MoHo. It's what I do and I guess I must be a bit retro. Plan to waterproof the original awnings this weekend and we're getting ready for the CanOpener.
Oh, and one more important thing that nobody mentioned. Don't leave the driveway without a good road insurance policy. If you need to be towed, leave that to somebody that knows where to take you.
Enjoy, Pete

[Roadrunner]

Well you know Dean...after polishing 2 Airstreams...you really do need a polished bumper! Bet everyone can see you coming. Sounds like all are very glad they made the investment in their Airstream motorhomes. I'll be taking a second look...and based upon the suggestions here...may follow in your footsteps. Thanks for the advice!

Bob

[Keyair]

Roadrunner,
As a trailer owner, I am sure you are already deep into the joy of having your own space and home away from home, that they bring.
My personal belief is that the Airstream Classic Motorhome is the pinnicle of this...

I have had trailers, and workamped in Europe in mine for years...

Here was my rig, parked on an Olive Grove is Tuscany for 2 years.. I never failed to enjoy every second of it!


Or here parked in a meadow under the shadow of Mt Blanc on the Italian side...


Or the return Trip home in December, where the snow tires and chains paid for themselves...


And I was roughing it compared with what you guys have here! A 15lb Propane tank and 4A electrical load max on one 12v battery taught me to be frugal!

Now, here is the thing...
I want and love to travel in the USA.
I also want my GF and dogs close to hand, and for my family and friends traveling with me to relax, sleep, party, drink wine or coffee, make a sandwich, or use the bathroom while we put down the miles.
Or simply watch the world pass by the windows...
In my minds eye, we take turns to drive, while making the journey TO the destination as bigger part of the fun as the destination.

You just can't do that in a Truck and trailer combo to the same level.
That is why I decided on a Motorhome.... and as I always wanted an Airstream, once I found out that Airstream built Classics, the choice was easy!

Yes, they have issues, but I would rather replace a dinged Aluminum sheet, that deal with a side delamination issue, and the parts are now not available!
I was talking to a neighbor of mine at storage... he was telling me he just had a cracked Turbo houseing and manifold on his 2006 Diesel Pusher... the complete repair, cost over $10k...
These big motorhomes are sweet, but those here will tell you that when on the road, nobody even notices you or your tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$ investment..
I can handle 8mpg, and being able to find a part for the drivetrain at any Autoparts store in any backwoods town!
Ask any little backstreet/backwoods mechanic if he can replace a waterpump in a Chevy 454 for you, and you know he will say yes... Just dont tell him what the 454 is living under!

[Kota]

Originally Posted by Keyair

I was talking to a neighbor of mine at storage... he was telling me he just had a cracked Turbo houseing and manifold on his 2006 Diesel Pusher... the complete repair, cost over $10k...
These big motorhomes are sweet, but those here will tell you that when on the road, nobody even notices you or your tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$ investment..

Cool pictures and I couldn't agree more with your take on motorhomes.

Don't sell the diesels too short. As a shade tree mechanic I'm finding the cummins quite easy to work on. Parts have been surprizingly inexpensive at places like Rocky Mountain Truck. A cracked exhaust manifold and a new high performance turbo housing was less than a grand and took a day to replace.

Properly cared for those drivetrains should go half a million miles and the miles per gallon are a big plus. I pitty the guy that has to rely on the RV service centers for repairs on anything.

[crazeevw]

Dakota, I'm sure that Keyair will agree with me on this statement. If you're considering an Airstream motorhome, and you don't know which end of the screw-driver is the business end, don't even bother looking. Hell, don't even think about ANY motorhome, no matter the year. If you can't afford a new motorhome WITH an extended warranty, go straight to tow vehicle and travel trailer.
But, I'll say this, the number of folks who 'took the tour' in my Airstream this weekend while camping, were certainly impressed with the quality of my Airstream. Sure, it's 23 years old, it has it's issues, but like I've said any number of times to those who've questioned my purchase, "It's got GOOD BONES!"
There will always be those that can't 'see' beyond what's in front of them. Those without vision, don't even consider an older Airstream motorhome....
Just me sayin.....
Thanks, Derek

[Kota]

Originally Posted by crazeevw

Dakota, I'm sure that Keyair will agree with me on this statement. If you're considering an Airstream motorhome, and you don't know which end of the screw-driver is the business end, don't even bother looking. Hell, don't even think about ANY motorhome, no matter the year. If you can't afford a new motorhome WITH an extended warranty, go straight to tow vehicle and travel trailer.
But, I'll say this, the number of folks who 'took the tour' in my Airstream this weekend while camping, were certainly impressed with the quality of my Airstream. Sure, it's 23 years old, it has it's issues, but like I've said any number of times to those who've questioned my purchase, "It's got GOOD BONES!"
There will always be those that can't 'see' beyond what's in front of them. Those without vision, don't even consider an older Airstream motorhome....
Just me sayin.....

Thanks, Derek

I totally agree for the mechanically inept which is probably the vast majority. That's why we are able to buy 10+ year old units that sold for $150K+ for less than $30K.

The only point I was trying to make is that if you are a DIY guy and happen to be capable of working on a 454, dont discount a diesel as being more difficult to work on. Lots of trucks out there running them and I've found parts readily available. My exhaust manifold was about $240 and gaskets and studs were about $1 a piece. Serp belt $45, water pump $55. Filters, hoses, etc are all inline with automotive prices. All in stock.

The Cummins in mine is in a cavernous engine compartment with great access from the top, bottom, and front after you pull the radiator. No carb or ignition system. One wire going to the fuel shutoff valve and a starter wire. A few sensors like water level, temp, oil level, pressure. Really pretty simple and easy.

Dave...

[Keyair]

I agree Dave.
Your 5.9 is what I would put in my 345 in a heartbeat.. and I have a buddy who can get me one when i want one..
I guess my point was that you want an engine that is common, not something exotic or rarer... the 6BT fits that criteria too.

[crazeevw]

5.9, in my dreams.....maybe before I retire? Jeez, if Steve does it, then I'm heading to California to get Steve to do the swap!

[SteSpot]

Originally Posted by crazeevw

Dakota, I'm sure that Keyair will agree with me on this statement. If you're considering an Airstream motorhome, and you don't know which end of the screw-driver is the business end, don't even bother looking. Hell, don't even think about ANY motorhome, no matter the year. If you can't afford a new motorhome WITH an extended warranty, go straight to tow vehicle and travel trailer.
Thanks, Derek

Should we send the 1982 24' back to Florida? Tell me again, which end? paula

[Kota]

Originally Posted by SteSpot

Should we send the 1982 24' back to Florida? Tell me again, which end? paula

A can do attitude and a little help and guidance from people on sites like this and you will be fine. Its not rocket science. Find a good mechanic for those things you can't do yourself. I had some serious buyers remorse when I got mine home. 4 trips and about 5000 miles in 3 months and were very happy we bought it and looking forward to next spring. Not planning on taking it out of storage this winter other than bringing it home for a few projects.

Keep in mind that we pay a fraction of what some people loose just driving a new units off the dealers lot.

Dave...