More power Scotty

[Isuzusweet]

I was having a visit with John (Shepherd57) and a fellow diesel fanatic today when the talk of more power came up. I brought up propane injection but water/methanol injection seemed to be the best way to get power and lower EGT temps. They have boost control injected as well as boost and EGT control injection.

This outfit also makes water injection for gas motors as well.

Snow Performance MPG-MAX Universal Water-Methanol Injection Kit

To the technically minded out there; what do you think?

Cheers
Tony

[Keyair]

The water Menthol Injection is well known and a good power adder.
What is interesting is that we have Propane onboard, so that sound like a cool option!

[Smartstream]

The easy way to make power in a diesel is to feed it more fuel and air. The side effects are loss of fuel economy and the black clouds of smoke coming from the tail pipe. There are lots of little things like piston and combustion chamber design and add computers and you can control fuel management and valve timing. It's great but kind of hard to add to old mechanical engines. Keep in mind newer engines have spray oil coolers for the bottom of the pistons and other little tricks to handle the extra power generated by 30 psi. turbos and intercoolers.

Our 10 psi. turbos add a little juice but as we all know our old Isuzu's are no ball of fire but they do get us down the highway with few problems. I've put about 70,000 miles on mine from coast to coast and over the Continental Divide several times with no issues. I may slow a bit on the hills but I always get there.

Propane and water injection have been around a long time but until I see the large truck fleets running them I think I'll pass.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Propane and water injection have been around a long time but until I see the large truck fleets running them I think I'll pass.

That's a very valid observation. Those guys would greatly benefit from anything that really works from a cost and reliability standpoint.

I'm pretty pleased with the Banks mod. I see 30lbs boost but you have to be careful with the EGT. I've been over all the challenging passes in the Rockies. Coming down has always been more of a concern until I installed the PAC exhaust brake. Inter cooler (CAC) leaks and inefficiencies can really rob performance and raise EGTs. They degrade faster than a radiator and deserve periodic pressure checks.

I'm going to replace my radiator/CAC sandwich with a stacked configuration that most of the new rear engine configurations are using.

[Kota]

On a long grade, the CAC blows a lot of very hot air across the radiator in the sandwich configuration.

This configuration solves that problem.

I'll eliminate the engine fan and use 4 puller fans on the back. 2 CAC 2 Radiator. Both have different control requirements that are not met by one huge engine driven fan.

[Isuzusweet]

I hear everyones concerns with adding power. I too have been leery of turning up the tap, so to speak, by turning up the flow on the fuel pump. This added fuel will only add to the EGT temps, and since heat is the enemy of diesel engines, it's not a good idea.

I thought Propane was the way to go but it does add a lot of heat to the mixture.

Water-methanol injection however lowers EGT temps by injecting water into the airstream but increases efficiency by turning the engine partially into a steam engine; which has the added effect of cleaning the engine combustion area at the same time.
Maybe just the boost mode of only using it when the turbo is on stream would be good and cheaper.
They tell me just the blue windsheild wiper fluid works well.

Diesel Water Methanol Injection Kit | Powermax Kit

Cheers
Tony

PS There is a Snow dealership in Oakville and i will give them a call.

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I hear everyones concerns with adding power. I too have been leery of turning up the tap, so to speak, by turning up the flow on the fuel pump. This added fuel will only add to the EGT temps, and since heat is the enemy of diesel engines, it's not a good idea.

This isn't exactly true. Diesels like heat, as a matter of fact that along with fuel and compression is how they work. Check out the trucks with their radiators covered during the cold weather trying to keep enough heat to keep the power up. Turbos on the other hand do not like too much heat. They start to melt first.

As I said before, keep an eye on the truck fleets. The slightest improvement in power or economy means big bucks to them and if it works they will be the first to use it.

[Tuco]

You can mitigate some of the EGT increases with a larger exhaust system.

[SebasSF]

Yes, more power please. I just installed a Banks kit on my 94 12v, but I don't notice much of an improvement. I was running 18 psi boost (is that low?) and backing off when egt went over the 1200/ 1250 mark going up long steep hills. I must have been pushing it much harder before I got the pyrometer because the radiator temp never budged from the 190 mark the whole trip. Still smoking quite a bit under load, but I made 11.2 mpg heading up to Portland and some long passes (in the snow!). I still plan on upgrading the exhaust and finding a pro to do a tune up as I have no clue. I guess there is position of the fuel plate, timing, star wheel etc. to consider.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by SebasSF

Yes, more power please. I just installed a Banks kit on my 94 12v, but I don't notice much of an improvement. I was running 18 psi boost (is that low?) and backing off when egt went over the 1200/ 1250 mark going up long steep hills. I must have been pushing it much harder before I got the pyrometer because the radiator temp never budged from the 190 mark the whole trip. Still smoking quite a bit under load, but I made 11.2 mpg heading up to Portland and some long passes (in the snow!). I still plan on upgrading the exhaust and finding a pro to do a tune up as I have no clue. I guess there is position of the fuel plate, timing, star wheel etc. to consider.

That doesn't sound quite right. I had a very noticeable power improvement. And it ran cleaner. Visibly and confirmed on the Dyno emissions test. I see 30lbs of boost and the EGT tops out about 1100 unless you are on a long climb then I just downshift to keep the rpms up to about 2300.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

This isn't exactly true. Diesels like heat, as a matter of fact that along with fuel and compression is how they work. Check out the trucks with their radiators covered during the cold weather trying to keep enough heat to keep the power up.

That's why I'm going to split CAC and radiator cooling. The big fan blows too much constant wind for it to warm up. Especially in cold high altitude conditions. The CAC on the other hand doesn't produce significant heat unless the boost is up. Then it's important for it to be cold soaked which requires a heavy fan blow for about 30 seconds after a boost event.

[SebasSF]

I found the turbo outlet was not aligned and leaking a bit, the clamp was not on right...could be loosing some boost under pressure. There was also a pinch in the pipe compression fitting for the boost gauge. We'll see if that helps at all.

[SebasSF]

I replaced the clamp on the exhaust and remade the connection on the boost gauge nod took it for a spin. It feels like it's running cleaner and has more power. When I floor it on a hill, the turbo psi is up to about 22... Sounds low compared to Kota's. I still plan on replacing the muffler and getting a full tune up by a proper diesel shop.

[Kota]

Take a good look at your CAC. I chased a degradation in performance and more smoke until I found several cracks in the cooler. Saw about a 5 psi increase in top end boost and it cleaned right up. Probably mentioned that previously but didn't go back and read. They seem to be a real wear item in the trucking world. They are routinely pressure checked every year.

You should see a good solid 28-30 lbs at sea level with the Banks Big Head and turbo housing. That will make a world of difference. It will run cooler too. The star wheel in the pump might need to be adjusted. Hard telling how or if they set it up at the overhaul.

[SebasSF]

Interesting. I had the CAC rebuilt and pressure checked when the motor was rebuilt.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by SebasSF

Interesting. I had the CAC rebuilt and pressure checked when the motor was rebuilt.

Did they recore it or just clean and test it?

[Vycan]

I too received a boost output of 30-35psi with the banks system. I did not see any noticeable increase in MPG, so I reviewed the PO's maintenance logs. They did an upgrade to 300hp shortly after getting it, but everything is stock. That's when I started reviewing my notes and issues she's been having (lots of smoke on acceleration, and diesel fuel residue on the toad). Their 300hp solution was to replace the fuel plate and adjust the p7100 star wheel. So really, just fuel. After undoing the star wheel adjustment, and removing the turbo silencer the best I got was 15MPG no toad, no wind, level ground. Usually I get 13.5-14mpg and with toad 12-13.

[KB6YAF]

My local diesel mechanic suggested that I have all the injectors rebuilt along with the injector pump to get more power. I think it was around $200 per injector and $450 for the pump. There is a more power now even though the turbo boost indicator is off the scale!! I do have to watch the EGT temps. While the motor home was in the shop, I did have a Gear Vendors overdrive unit installed. That was money well spent.

Russell Decker
Olympia, WA
1983 Airstream 310 TD

[SebasSF]

I have been tinkering with mine. I adjusted the arm on the turbo bypass actuator shorter and it's running much better now. Still only gets up to 25 on the boost gauge but has more power and runs cooler. Traveling on flatland the turbo is running at 10 psi boost. Drove up to Oregon last weekend and got around 11 mpg...was hoping for a bit better.

[Kota]

I see about 30 lbs on hard acceleration. About 5 lbs better than before I patched up the CAC. They do rot out. Mostly thermal expansion cracks. They pressure test them regularly on commercial trucks. It's also running cleaner. I did back off the star wheel a couple teeth. Sacrificed a little power for not having to watch the EGT while Ann is driving.