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Old 03-03-2010, 12:04 AM   #1
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Smile Hard Nuts Solution

Well kids it's not what you think. I felt like sharing a bit of information about lug nuts with everyone. First go to your local Ace Hardware or Auto Supply and buy a small can of Anti-Seize Lubricant. This product can be used in so many places on your RV. The one I will discuss here is the most neglected use of Anti-Seize. When the tire shop or your local AS repair shop removes wheels and tires for service, they seldom apply Anti-Seize when reinstalling the wheels.

I'm sure most shops think that it is overkill when I insist that the lug nuts are not reinstalled until Anti-Seize is applied. This facilitates proper torque on the lugs also. The all powerful air wrench that most shops use does not apply the proper torque to the lugs. It has to be done with a torque wrench. Yes I am aware that some shops have torque sticks, but many times these are less than accurate. Properly torqued with Anti-Seize applied will help the next time the lugs need to be removed for wheel removal too! Anyone who has tried to change a tire at the side of the road will attest to that fact.
I realize this is a lot of work, removing all the tires and wheels, but it can be done in conjunction with balancing or wheel packing or whatever, just as long as you apply the Anti-Seize. Try it fellow ASrs, you won't be disappointed with the results the next time the wheel has to come off.

PS: If you have a motorhome, Anti-Seize works wonders when installing Headers
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:03 AM   #2
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Great Idea
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:15 AM   #3
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Oh, I use anti-seize all over creation on the MG. Nothing like a bit of it on vintage nuts and bolts to keep them on the road longer.

But the opposite is also true: Nothing like some blue threadlocker applied in just the right places so that you don't have to rely entirely on torque to keep things in place.


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Old 03-03-2010, 09:18 AM   #4
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hi kmpro- you hit the nail right on the head, good post! Just a few days ago I had a tire go flat on the wifes car. So here I am on the side of the road, dark outside and without a flashlight. I find necessary stuff in trunk then the first lugnut makes about 3/4 of a turn and snap. This particular car only has 4 lugs but luckily the remaining 3 came off and back on without problem, so later in the day off to the tire shop we went and they did exactly what you suggested, this time! Glad it wasn't the MH.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:21 AM   #5
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You have to be careful with where you put lubricant. A lot of bolts/nuts are dry torque. No lube. Some can be wet. If you lube/anti-seize you will need to check the lug nuts more often.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:22 AM   #6
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Personally, I would never do this. My lug nuts are something I want staying tight.
Just for curiosity, I googled "anti seize lug nuts"
almost all the hits were on other forums. The opinions seem to be about 50-50. I only found one reference from a tire retailer and none from auto or wheel manufactures.
The one from a tire retailer said never do it.
My only point is to make sure you think about it before you do it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:38 AM   #7
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Ken:
I appreciate your input about keeping the lugs tight. That is the purpose of the Anti-Seize Lubricant. Proper torque will keep the wheels on and the Lube allows this AND enables you to remove the lugs without a 6ft cheater bar when necessary. I have personally used the Anti-Seize Lube for over 30 years on everything from Aircraft to 36000 GVWR Motorhomes and have never lost a wheel or even had one loosen up. Better than that I never lost my religion because I could not loosen the lugs to change a tire.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpro View Post
Ken:
I appreciate your input about keeping the lugs tight. That is the purpose of the Anti-Seize Lubricant. Proper torque will keep the wheels on and the Lube allows this AND enables you to remove the lugs without a 6ft cheater bar when necessary. I have personally used the Anti-Seize Lube for over 30 years on everything from Aircraft to 36000 GVWR Motorhomes and have never lost a wheel or even had one loosen up. Better than that I never lost my religion because I could not loosen the lugs to change a tire.
Just because I wouldn't do something, doesn't it make it a bad idea.
My only point was that since it seems to be controversial, I would recommend that anyone do some research before deciding to do it.
Perhaps it is overkill, but I carry one of these.

Geared Lug Nut Remover: Powerful 32:1 Lug Wrench Loosens Stubborn Lug Nuts

Regards,
Ken
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:03 PM   #9
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I personally am a firm believer in Never Seize . I use it on all the lawnmowers I service. I have yet to have one come back with a loose or missing blade. I also used to use Never Seize on Budd wheels on my big trucks when it was me that was going to be the one to break those things loose out on the highway.Believe me its not fun.
I use an Anti-Seize compound on my TV and Trailer wheels.
Some tire shops stopped using it because of some liability issues they were concerned with,my own GOODYEAR/Firstone retailers being one. HOWEVER in my 45 yrs of being on the road I never found a loose lug nut due to an ANTI-Seize Compound.
I continue to use this stuff until PROVEN Wrong.
Just one mans opinion.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:23 PM   #10
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If the threads are lubricated and the nut/bolt is tightened to the dry torque specification it is likely that the bolt/stud will be damaged. If some lubricant ends up on the seating surface (cone or flat where the nut/bolt contacts the rim) then the risk increases further. There is also the possibility of cracking the rim.

Rotating the tires from time to time is another way to make sure the threads don't get stuck.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:44 PM   #11
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I worked as a consultant in the automotive industry for a number of years, providing assembly solutions for all types of designs to major manufacturers around the globe. We did a lot of studies analyzing assembly torque, seating torque, removal torque, etc. It was common knowledge that one application never to use lubricants is lug nuts. There was a well known study in the industry with a US Mfr back in the 80’s where alloy wheels were failing, the culprit; over torque during assembly due to use of lubricant on the lugs. Use of lubricants during assembly reduces friction thereby leaving greater torque to be applied to tension (bolt stretch), inducing greater force on the wheel than would result from a “dry” joint As noted, lug nuts are a key fastener you do NOT want to come loose. I would not recommend lubricant of any kind on lugs. Better to check your lug nut torque by loosening, then re-seating several times/season and if on a long trip, you might check daily (I check lug nuts and my WD fasteners).
If you do use any lubricant, I would be inclined to check seating torque frequently, and reduce the amount of torque applied. How much? Your guess is as good as mine…

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Old 03-03-2010, 04:11 PM   #12
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Lug nuts

I would rather get nad because they were to tight than because they were to loose.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:52 PM   #13
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Helloooo! We are talking here about Anti-Seize Lubricant here and it has either aluminum or copper incorporated in it to give correct torque values. Not just plain lube guys. Incidentally, Bill, that survey also found over torquing by air wrenches combined with grease. Torquing and retorquing several times a season will stretch threads and cause lug failure too. Lug torque on my 310 is from 130 to 180 lbs ft of torque. I personally torque mine at 155 lbs ft. I believe that will keep the wheels on my wagon.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:28 PM   #14
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I spend the time necessary with a wire wheel on a drill motor to clean up the studs. And go over them with a tap & die set. I have used motor oil (wiped off), anti-seize, nothing, and now -- if I REALLY feel the need -- Permatex 56521.
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